powerstuck
Nordiques Hopes Lies
Latest team to join the Q was Sherbrooke, and I've never heard anything about Fredericton when Sherbrooke was looking to get a franchise.
Could you help with a QMJHL Expansion Idea?
- Thread starter BigMac1212
- Start date
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
The league has to want to expand to there too, which I would guess is not their desire at this point. Right now, there are already 6 teams in the Maritimes, along with 2 other divisions of 6 teams. Adding a 7th team in the Maritimes throws the balance out of whack.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
Isn't their arena on a college campus, too? That probably creates some extra hoops that need to be jumped through.
Mightygoose
Registered User
Aitkin Centre is owned by UNB and from my understanding, they do not want the competition in town. With theit own programs and St. Thomas, they're kind of the only games in town so they wouldn't offer the type of lease to any Q or AHL team viable.
The only way it could work is if the city were to build an arena that they would own. If that happens, I'm certain ownership will come.
The only way it could work is if the city were to build an arena that they would own. If that happens, I'm certain ownership will come.
Cacciaguida
Registered User
wildcat48
Registered User
UNB doesn't want to cede key weekend dates or concessions to a potential junior team. Reportedly, the possibility was looked at a few years ago, be it an investigative team or prospective owners, but UNB's rent costs to off-set their dates they would lose was exorbitant and too high for a junior team to function. The Aitken Centre can handle a University Cup but would have a hard time handling a junior team and UNB full time; renovations would be needed, and the footprint of the building isn't that big.
STU's new rink isn't big enough, and owned by that university. Even with the cancellation of the men's hockey program, I don't think they're looking to fill dates. The area around it couldn't handle too much traffic, either.
The city messed up a few years ago when they could have built a bigger arena and went for a QMJHL team or a new rink to bring an AHL team back. Be it pressure from the local universities, optics or money, they decided to build two smaller arenas (Willie O'Ree Centre on the north side for high school and midget AAA hockey; Grant-Harvey Centre for STU) instead of one big one to replace/work alongside the Aitken Centre. If they go with one bigger arena, they would stand a much higher chance of having a QMJHL team today.
STU's new rink isn't big enough, and owned by that university. Even with the cancellation of the men's hockey program, I don't think they're looking to fill dates. The area around it couldn't handle too much traffic, either.
The city messed up a few years ago when they could have built a bigger arena and went for a QMJHL team or a new rink to bring an AHL team back. Be it pressure from the local universities, optics or money, they decided to build two smaller arenas (Willie O'Ree Centre on the north side for high school and midget AAA hockey; Grant-Harvey Centre for STU) instead of one big one to replace/work alongside the Aitken Centre. If they go with one bigger arena, they would stand a much higher chance of having a QMJHL team today.
JadedLeaf
Registered User
Bathurst metro area is actually somewhere around 34,000, bigger than Miramichi. I don't think a team there would work very well if it's not working in Bathurst. ( which it isn't really) I used to live in Bathurst growing up before moving to Saskatchewan. The only area I think you could put a team that might work in NB would be Fredericton if not for UNB.
The economy in NB is too putrid right now to put another team anywhere near there and with the messed up politics in that province it's just going to keep getting worst.
It's unfortunate with economy tanking in the east coast and people moving out west for work, that the QMJHL market is shrinking all around. Less and less people to support the teams. I'm not sure if it's still going in that direction but wasn't the league attendance either stagnating or going down in recent years?
zeropotentate
Registered User
I can't remember where I got those numbers, I would like to say I checked census data, but in reality I probably just scoured wikipedia
Thinking back on this issue, another team in the Maritimes is just not going to happen unless Freddy somehow wants one. That other thread talks about St. John's as a candidate, but IDK, it doesn't seem like an idea spot, but hey Bathurst has a team so anything is possible.
From my experience, teams get attendance based off of performance and their star players. In Saint John the stadium was packed when they were in the memorial cup run years, and even afterwards when they didn't do so well people came out to see Huberdeau play. I don't know if the whole league is dying, it certainly doesn't seem that way in the Maritime teams that I know, and I can't fathom that some of the longstanding Quebec teams are doing terribly.
But if the league were to expand, realistically it will be to other Quebec Metros. I think previously I had thought of a team on the Ontario-Quebec border, and perhaps one in main, but those are long shots.
One problem is that towns with a good population size, say like Trois-Riviere have problems and roadblocks in their way to getting a team. Basically, even if there are ideal towns or cities to expand to, I don't know how realistic it is for them to acquire teams right away.
JadedLeaf
Registered User
I can't remember where I got those numbers, I would like to say I checked census data, but in reality I probably just scoured wikipedia
Thinking back on this issue, another team in the Maritimes is just not going to happen unless Freddy somehow wants one. That other thread talks about St. John's as a candidate, but IDK, it doesn't seem like an idea spot, but hey Bathurst has a team so anything is possible.
From my experience, teams get attendance based off of performance and their star players. In Saint John the stadium was packed when they were in the memorial cup run years, and even afterwards when they didn't do so well people came out to see Huberdeau play. I don't know if the whole league is dying, it certainly doesn't seem that way in the Maritime teams that I know, and I can't fathom that some of the longstanding Quebec teams are doing terribly.
But if the league were to expand, realistically it will be to other Quebec Metros. I think previously I had thought of a team on the Ontario-Quebec border, and perhaps one in main, but those are long shots.
One problem is that towns with a good population size, say like Trois-Riviere have problems and roadblocks in their way to getting a team. Basically, even if there are ideal towns or cities to expand to, I don't know how realistic it is for them to acquire teams right away.
I'll be completely honest, I didn't realize I was responding to such an old post haha.
But I think the east coast is saturated with teams right now when you look at the population and the economy. I'm thrilled Bathurst has a team being my home town and all but that team is being run on a shoe string budget. It's taking a big ownership group full of locals and a few NHLers to keep that team there and I'm still not confident they're making a whole lot of money.
I haven't followed junior hockey like I used to since I moved out west for work but the biggest issue for me at the time, especially being a fan of a small market team, is that a lot of top draft picks would never consider signing with small market teams. Teams like Halifax or Quebec finish in last place and they get a good prospect but smaller market teams finish in last and they have to trade their first pick to bigger market teams or the player threatens to go NCAA.
I'm sure having top draft picks would go a long way towards improving attendance in a lot of the smaller markets. I know this probably goes on in the other junior leagues as well but I feel like the Q is by far the less stable of the three leagues.
JadedLeaf
Registered User
I thought they just built an arena not all that long ago no? Not QMJHL size from what I heard but it doesn't sound like there is a huge interest in Fredericton to get a team. They seem happy with UNB.
zeropotentate
Registered User
Yeah, the disparity between the richer teams and the poorer teams is probably more exaggerated because of how few teams there are in the league. For instance, Cape Breton has a hard time at getting prospects to play for them, but Saint John doesn't. It is in part due to the locations of the cities. Plus there is the language divide which other parts of Canada don't have to really deal with, if you grew up speaking only English would you want to go to say Rouyn-Noranda, and if you grew up only speaking French would you really want to say go to Charlottetown? Those might be minor factors, but something to consider.
The old adage that says 'if it isn't broken don't fix it' might be true of the Q right now. The league seems to be doing well at the moment, I don't know if there is any real need for expansion.
There is no chance Gatineau will be moving there getting a new arena even if they were not the chance of them moving would be less then 0.01%.
last thing the Q needs is expansion
more like cutting atleast 4 teams easy
league is way too diluted
more like cutting atleast 4 teams easy
league is way too diluted
I wouldn't say the play is diluted. It has more parity than the other two leagues and overall its fairly comparable. Considering the OHL screws over the QMJHL in terms of recruiting area, its fairly impressive that the Q has bridged the gap over the last 10-15 years. Because they certainly used to be the 'black sheep.'
now, if you're talking attendance...then yes, I agree. I'm worried too. A lot of teams are in a worrying place attendance wise and many have older rinks...which is a troubling one-two punch for the longevity of the league.
paul-laus
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2007
- 487
- 79
Couldn't disagree more. Drop from 18 to 14 teams? Why just stop at 4 then? Seems like an arbitrary number. Why not drop by eight? Let's drop to ten teams and then you'll see the "Q" in its purest form....
cishockeyfan
Registered User
- Nov 5, 2007
- 767
- 16
If the Aitken Center Arena was owned by the city of Fredericton, Fredericton NB would long since have had QMJHL Team. But its not its owned by the University of New Brunswick, and UNB has had a lot of success in hockey both on the stats sheet and financially, so their is no possible way they (UNB) would want to give that up or that a Q team owner would be willing to sacrifice for UNB. And I don't blame both sides at all, but that's the sole reason their isn't a team here.
In the dying years of the AHL being here in the late Nineties Fredericton had better support than both Moncton and Halifax did in their later years of their AHL teams the Hawks and Citadels. Moncton and Halifax are larger markets, with larger rinks and currently sit 2 and 3 in Q attendance.
UNB has averaged 2500 fans per game to University hockey for years now, the cities second University Team (folded in 2016-17) used to also average a solid 1000 fans per game until of course their program was run into the ground with terrible teams for the last 8 years and averaged around 500 per game. This is considering many hockey fans in the city have never giving the university game a chance (they presume its crap) or don't know the players and wont go.
If their was a city owned arena with a minimum seating capacity of 3500, than yea Fredericton would have a team, and I see no reason they wouldn't be in the top 10 in attendance, I feel confident they'd even be ahead of Saint John for attendance. Fredericton's population has caught up to Saint John's in recent years (not quite their but closing the gap) but their is definably more $ in Fredericton, excluding the Irving group in SJ, I mean per family household.
I wouldn't expand, but relocation would be ideal someday. And sorry Bathurst I think its great you've had a Q team, but the days are numbered the only reason a team is there is simply cause Irving built an arena there.
Fredericton and St John's NFLD are the only 2 possible Atlantic Canada Cities in the future. Whomever is bringing up the names of Edmundston and Miramichi NB please stop, the cities are too small, have no suitable arena and most importantly no one has money their (not literally no one) but the economy is bad in both places.
Same goes for Amherst, Yarmouth and Truro, while I can't comment on their economy, its not going to happen. You will see the QMJHL add a team across the bridge from Halifax to play at the Dartmouth Sportsplex before any of those cities. Dartmouth Lakers vs Halifax Mooseheads anyone?
In the dying years of the AHL being here in the late Nineties Fredericton had better support than both Moncton and Halifax did in their later years of their AHL teams the Hawks and Citadels. Moncton and Halifax are larger markets, with larger rinks and currently sit 2 and 3 in Q attendance.
UNB has averaged 2500 fans per game to University hockey for years now, the cities second University Team (folded in 2016-17) used to also average a solid 1000 fans per game until of course their program was run into the ground with terrible teams for the last 8 years and averaged around 500 per game. This is considering many hockey fans in the city have never giving the university game a chance (they presume its crap) or don't know the players and wont go.
If their was a city owned arena with a minimum seating capacity of 3500, than yea Fredericton would have a team, and I see no reason they wouldn't be in the top 10 in attendance, I feel confident they'd even be ahead of Saint John for attendance. Fredericton's population has caught up to Saint John's in recent years (not quite their but closing the gap) but their is definably more $ in Fredericton, excluding the Irving group in SJ, I mean per family household.
I wouldn't expand, but relocation would be ideal someday. And sorry Bathurst I think its great you've had a Q team, but the days are numbered the only reason a team is there is simply cause Irving built an arena there.
Fredericton and St John's NFLD are the only 2 possible Atlantic Canada Cities in the future. Whomever is bringing up the names of Edmundston and Miramichi NB please stop, the cities are too small, have no suitable arena and most importantly no one has money their (not literally no one) but the economy is bad in both places.
Same goes for Amherst, Yarmouth and Truro, while I can't comment on their economy, its not going to happen. You will see the QMJHL add a team across the bridge from Halifax to play at the Dartmouth Sportsplex before any of those cities. Dartmouth Lakers vs Halifax Mooseheads anyone?
ADK34
Registered User
paul-laus
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2007
- 487
- 79
So your logic then is-"once scores start getting out of hand, it's a good indicator that the talent pool is too diluted so it's time to contract a number of teams?" Just to put things in perspective, Flint beat Saginaw 11-2 earlier this season, Erie beat Ottawa 8-0, and Hamilton beat Oshawa 8-2. Does the "O" need to contract too based on those blowout scores? Do you think Kootenay and Saskatoon have been immune to getting spanked out in the Dub the last couple of seasons? Do they need to contract? I'm not saying the Q needs to get up to 25 teams or anything but adding a team in St. John's for an additional Atlantic team isn't going to be the difference between an inferior product or not.
The name of the game in Junior hockey is loading up for a couple of seasons in order to take a run at a league title or Memorial Cup with a resulting downturn where the franchise rebuilds and has to endure growing pains with younger players. Guelph played in the memorial cup a couple of seasons ago and now they're the league punching bag. Acadie Bathurst were brutal for a couple of years and now they're smoking teams 9-0. Moncton was beating up on teams for a few seasons and now they're starting from scratch again. These are the ebbs and flows of junior hockey other than the London Knights who seem to be a perennial contender. Hardly reason for contraction my friend...Quebec has always been the league out of the three with way more emphasis on flair and creativity and way less on developing defensive structure. I personally love the offense fueled league...
paul-laus
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2007
- 487
- 79
The only major cities (that I can think of) that do not have teams are:
Montreal (Island) - had a team, fails every time, no market for Q
Laval - had a team; AHL starting next season
Southern Shore of Montreal - had a team, no rink, no market for Q
Granby - had a team
Trois-Rivieres - had a team; plus already a team in Shawinigan (same market essentially)
Levis - Potential if Quebec joins NHL, so maybe a relocation rather than expansion. No rink currently
Sorel-Tracey - had a team; city too small
Sept-Iles - city way to small
Vaudreuil-Dorion - city too small
Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu - Had a team, might be a good option with a proper rink
Fredericton and St. John's are the only cities in the east that could support a team I think. Fredericton has no rink, St. John's has a real location issue (relevant to the rest of the league).
The Q should probably be 16 teams max, a few are unhealthy financially I believe based on some things I have read. So having 18 is really stretching things as it is. 20 would be awesome, but not sure we will ever see it.
Montreal (Island) - had a team, fails every time, no market for Q
Laval - had a team; AHL starting next season
Southern Shore of Montreal - had a team, no rink, no market for Q
Granby - had a team
Trois-Rivieres - had a team; plus already a team in Shawinigan (same market essentially)
Levis - Potential if Quebec joins NHL, so maybe a relocation rather than expansion. No rink currently
Sorel-Tracey - had a team; city too small
Sept-Iles - city way to small
Vaudreuil-Dorion - city too small
Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu - Had a team, might be a good option with a proper rink
Fredericton and St. John's are the only cities in the east that could support a team I think. Fredericton has no rink, St. John's has a real location issue (relevant to the rest of the league).
The Q should probably be 16 teams max, a few are unhealthy financially I believe based on some things I have read. So having 18 is really stretching things as it is. 20 would be awesome, but not sure we will ever see it.
