OT: Coronavirus XVII: Second Wave? More Like a Tsunami

[harpoon]

Good on you dunking on a successful black man getting sick.

Of course it has nothing to do with him being successful or black, and everything to do with the location in which the picture was taken. And of course the ones dunking on him will be the same people who will ignore the change in (age) demographics of those falling ill, and insist that other prominent and extremely dangerous events of the past few weeks have had ‘no impact whatsoever’ on the spread of the virus ... while gleefully citing a handful of stupid kids in a southern state playing doomsday. As we know so well, karma only applies to certain folks in certain locations

 

[Drivesaitl]

Wonder what happens to those folks under the glorious socialist system?

I’ll throw my two cents in on the great grocery store debate. Granted I don’t live in Alberta and it may be that I’m overawed by the wide aisles and the embarrassment of choices, but I like the Safeway’s in the Sherwood Park Mall. It was redone within the last couple of years, and man is that a nice place to shop. Whenever I go there I spend about an hour wandering around just looking at all the choices. Freshness of produce and deli items puts the Superstore to shame imo. Walmart is just a complete dump by comparison. Always had superior service from the cashiers as well. Very friendly and personable. Definitely rate that particular store and will continue to patronize if the corona ever allows me to return to Canada.

Hate Target. Frequented the Target near the UCLA campus at the edge of Beverly Hills due to convenience of location. What a complete shithole of a shopping experience. Would honestly prefer Zellers.

Safeway has two stores in the Park. A strange vestige. Safeway formerly did well in affluent markets. So its a rare market that had Sobeys has kept the banners in. Its a nostalgic ode as much as anything.

Any Save on I've been in is a better experience than Safeway typically offered. I've been in that tired Mall. Haven't bothered with the safeway.

I'm in Millwoods. Give you an idea of Save On here. One can buy 5 different flavors of pre marinated chicken. Anything from Tandoori to Piri Piri and all excellent, all ready to throw on the grill just like that and not like awful Costco marinades. Stuff that has really been marinated 24hrs or longer. Excellent. just an example. Save On responds to wherever they are. They capture the customers and give them what they seek. They're pretty good at that. Better brand products, better Gluten free products etc. Particularly strong meat, produce sections. Not so much with the bakery, but my opinion, more because I'm Celiac.

 

[Senor Catface]

 

[Drivesaitl]

It’s moreso a few things:

1. Pollution/air quality.

2. Residual fear of SARS and other Asian flu viruses that swept through the area over the last two decades.

I don’t think people are any more cognizant of the greater good than they are here. It’s simply a matter of self preservation, as it usually is everywhere else in the world.

I've seen studies that there is more altruism, more need for altruism, more need for concerted measures. Could one argue that the altruism found might be for benefitting the tribe AND by that nature the individual? In a sense thats what altruism often is in the animal world.

Really its how one wants to cut the cake. I'm not going to go to someone that wears a mask and think they're just selfish doing that. I'm going to thank them for doing that and smile at everybody doing that.

you so cynical

 

[shoop]

And of course the ones dunking on him will be the same people who will ignore the change in (age) demographics of those falling ill, and insist that other prominent and extremely dangerous events of the past few weeks have had ‘no impact whatsoever’ on the spread of the virus ... while gleefully citing a handful of stupid kids in a southern state playing doomsday.

Those 15,000 people who gathered at the Alberta legislature just coincidentally matched with the timeline we would expect for a large gathering leading to a spike in infections. However, there was no impact from those protests.

New York came up with the best way to prove had 'no impact whatsoever'. If you refuse to ask infected people if they attended protests then you will have no data on infected people attending protests. Boom. Protests had no impact whatsoever on the infection rates in New York City. Easy peasy.

 

[Cloned]

I've seen studies that there is more altruism, more need for altruism, more need for concerted measures. Could one argue that the altruism found might be for benefitting the tribe AND by that nature the individual? In a sense thats what altruism often is in the animal world.

Really its how one wants to cut the cake. I'm not going to go to someone that wears a mask and think they're just selfish doing that. I'm going to thank them for doing that and smile at everybody doing that.

you so cynical

Mutualism.

btw, with respect to your last sentence, I learned from the best.

 

[doulos]

Of course it has nothing to do with him being successful or black, and everything to do with the location in which the picture was taken. And of course the ones dunking on him will be the same people who will ignore the change in (age) demographics of those falling ill, and insist that other prominent and extremely dangerous events of the past few weeks have had ‘no impact whatsoever’ on the spread of the virus ... while gleefully citing a handful of stupid kids in a southern state playing doomsday. As we know so well, karma only applies to certain folks in certain locations

You can go look at the evidence showing that the protests had next to no meaningful impact on covid19 spikes.

 

[doulos]

Those 15,000 people who gathered at the Alberta legislature just coincidentally matched with the timeline we would expect for a large gathering leading to a spike in infections. However, there was no impact from those protests.

New York came up with the best way to prove had 'no impact whatsoever'. If you refuse to ask infected people if they attended protests then you will have no data on infected people attending protests. Boom. Protests had no impact whatsoever on the infection rates in New York City. Easy peasy.

You can go look at the evidence showing that the protests had next to no meaningful impact on covid19 spikes.

 

[shoop]

You can go look at the evidence showing that the protests had next to no meaningful impact on covid19 spikes.

I hope you don't really believe that. This is an unquestionable example of data manipulation to further a political agenda. The manipulation of this 'evidence' is so obvious and ham handed it is laughable. In New York City the evidence was tainted in advance.

New York's team of contact-tracers, who are trying to discern exposures to the coronavirus and stem another break-out, have been instructed not to ask individuals if they attended a protest.

How much more proof do you need to prove how indefensible your comment is?

 

[CycloneSweep]

I hope you don't really believe that. This is an unquestionable example of data manipulation to further a political agenda. The manipulation of this 'evidence' is so obvious and ham handed it is laughable. In New York City the evidence was tainted in advance.



How much more proof do you need to prove how indefensible your comment is?

Okay. Say they are trying to cover it up
Where are the large spikes in areas with tons of protests?

New York, cases have dropped since May 26 and they have been at the 500-600 a day mark for the last few weeks with the occasional blip of 800.

Minnesota, Covid cases have been doing the essential same thing up down up down up down constantly, overall lower than it was in May.

Was there Covid cases from the protest? Most likely yes, impossible for there not to be. But has there been a massive breakout from it like some believed would happen? No. It seems to have no large effect on cases.

So unless you have proof or numbers that the protests caused any big breakouts or any areas where there was big breakouts and the state wasn't also opening up there is no proof of it.

 

[shoop]

Okay. Say they are trying to cover it up

They are. That has been proven.

Where are the large spikes in areas with tons of protests?

I don't know about tons of protests, so let's look at one protest. Edmonton. 15,000 people not practicing social distancing at the legislature. June 5th was the week of the protest. Two week incubation period plus a few days for testing and results to come back. June 23rd to 29th or so is when we might expect to see a spike due to the protest in Edmonton. Unfortunately, we don't have longitudinal data on Edmonton, so Alberta as a whole will have to do.

June 16th to 22nd - 296 new sases in the province.
June 23rd to 30th. - 368 new cases in the province.

24% more cases is a large spike. From just one big protest.

 

[AM]

Theres some related problems in what some subsets of Science have become, or what some consider to be Science. Modeling for instance. I state that because modeling doesn't have to meet any kind of standardized tests, confidence levels, lab work, background. Its strictly theoretical running some numbers domain. In that way not much different, and just as nebulous as hockey advance stats punter selling truth moonshine on hockey.

modeling has its place. But scrutiny should accompany it. The models have been out of their minds wrong on fatalities especially through all this.

That would be called mathematics. And they can tell you their assumptions. It’s not their fault if they are told what the answer has to be and you can’t see their thumb on the scales.

 

[oobga]

They are. That has been proven.



I don't know about tons of protests, so let's look at one protest. Edmonton. 15,000 people not practicing social distancing at the legislature. June 5th was the week of the protest. Two week incubation period plus a few days for testing and results to come back. June 23rd to 29th or so is when we might expect to see a spike due to the protest in Edmonton. Unfortunately, we don't have longitudinal data on Edmonton, so Alberta as a whole will have to do.

June 16th to 22nd - 296 new sases in the province.
June 23rd to 30th. - 368 new cases in the province.

24% more cases is a large spike. From just one big protest.

Painful man, still trying to blame all problems of the world on a protest? 24% increase all because of the protest? That's honestly laughable. Phase 2 opening was June 12th, and cases went up as expected afterwards. The large increases rooted back to various indoor gatherings. There has been no proof of spread rooting from multiple people attending the rally.

15,000 people at a protest outdoor with most wearing masks is not that big a thing. Try to imagine hundreds of thousands of people going out about their business, and thousands of homes having parties and get togethers every day over weeks. Many acting as if they have nothing to worry about. I see it every time I'm out shopping

 

[Tobias Kahun]

If I was making $55k a year being a "head" cashier at a grocery store, absolutely. When Covid was in full swing absolutely hazard pay for it. But now that things are opening back up slowly and getting back to normal absolutely overpaid.

Cashiers don’t make that much, I don’t know who told you they made that much, but they don’t.

 

[shoop]

24% increase all because of the protest? That's honestly laughable. Phase 2 opening was June 12th

That timeline doesn't correspond with the timelines Alberta Health was telling us about incubation periods and turnaround times for testing. Thanks for trying though.

 

[Stoneman89]

Of course you have the background as well, first person, and thanks for stating it. Matches perfectly my understanding as well of the Safeway union backed rhetoric. Which only really resulted in killing Safeway as an enterprise. Thats part of the irony and lol in all of this. If one had to predict one grocer that had employees going on strike during a pandemic, it would be Safeway. That would be the punchline. So predictable. Safeway, not serving you.

The funny thing is growing up i kind of thought of Safeway the same way that I thought of ALCB stores. With the thought that somebody should privitize these entities immediately to reduce the hogwash overhead. So that Safeway already being private, it was more a case of monopoly on market than anything. Any town, village was thankful to get other compeition in for hope that prices might go down from the rigged Safeway monopoly.

Honestly, to this day, I have no idea as to why we even went on those strikes. They really served no purpose looking back at it, other than to have some high up union reps justify their jobs by stirring up employees that had for the most part, been satisfied. At the end of the day, we came out even at best, but a whole lot of potential jobs were offered because of it, and things just got a whole lot tougher for those who were left.

 

[Stoneman89]

Cashiers don’t make that much, I don’t know who told you they made that much, but they don’t.

I don't think they do either, but how much is a reasonable wage rate for someone that wraps groceries, gathers carts, works a till, or stocks shelves?

 

[oobga]

That timeline doesn't correspond with the timelines Alberta Health was telling us about incubation periods and turnaround times for testing. Thanks for trying though.

You think that is enough to claim all increase in cases root from the protest? That doesn't line up with the events that Alberta Health has said the outbreaks were caused buy, thanks for trying though.

You seem to insist on 2 weeks of incubation as well before detection is possible. The average time of detection is on the order of days though. Up to 2 weeks doesn't mean everyone takes 2 weeks before the virus can be detected. Testing results have been coming back in 2-3 days for many people as well. It is easily possible that infections caused around June 12th can end up in the June 23rd to 30th data and that lines up just fine with information Alberta Health has provided. Thanks once again for trying though.

 

[Stoneman89]

Wonder what happens to those folks under the glorious socialist system?

I’ll throw my two cents in on the great grocery store debate. Granted I don’t live in Alberta and it may be that I’m overawed by the wide aisles and the embarrassment of choices, but I like the Safeway’s in the Sherwood Park Mall. It was redone within the last couple of years, and man is that a nice place to shop. Whenever I go there I spend about an hour wandering around just looking at all the choices. Freshness of produce and deli items puts the Superstore to shame imo. Walmart is just a complete dump by comparison. Always had superior service from the cashiers as well. Very friendly and personable. Definitely rate that particular store and will continue to patronize if the corona ever allows me to return to Canada.

Hate Target. Frequented the Target near the UCLA campus at the edge of Beverly Hills due to convenience of location. What a complete shithole of a shopping experience. Would honestly prefer Zellers.

It's interesting how some stores in the same chain can be so different from others. The Safeway by us in Southgate is pure trash, but I can get in there anytime without lineups for the most part, and pick up some generic items. To me, the 2 corners of a really good store is the meat section, the produce, and then the bakery with some possible consideration to the dairy department. The rest is cans and boxes. Some of the produce they try to sell should be left for the dogs to pick at. Bruised and beaten, and outdated stuff in the bakery. The best grocery shopping experience I've had is Ralph's in the U.S. Amazing place and actually fun to shop there. The superstore near us is not bad, and Sobey's is a definite step up.

 

[Stoneman89]

Of course you have the background as well, first person, and thanks for stating it. Matches perfectly my understanding as well of the Safeway union backed rhetoric. Which only really resulted in killing Safeway as an enterprise. Thats part of the irony and lol in all of this. If one had to predict one grocer that had employees going on strike during a pandemic, it would be Safeway. That would be the punchline. So predictable. Safeway, not serving you.

The funny thing is growing up i kind of thought of Safeway the same way that I thought of ALCB stores. With the thought that somebody should privitize these entities immediately to reduce the hogwash overhead. So that Safeway already being private, it was more a case of monopoly on market than anything. Any town, village was thankful to get other compeition in for hope that prices might go down from the rigged Safeway monopoly.

Yup, back in the day, Safeway had a huge monopoly on the market, so much so, that the government restricted some of their own growth with laws that allowed others to make an inroad.

 

[CycloneSweep]

They are. That has been proven.



I don't know about tons of protests, so let's look at one protest. Edmonton. 15,000 people not practicing social distancing at the legislature. June 5th was the week of the protest. Two week incubation period plus a few days for testing and results to come back. June 23rd to 29th or so is when we might expect to see a spike due to the protest in Edmonton. Unfortunately, we don't have longitudinal data on Edmonton, so Alberta as a whole will have to do.

June 16th to 22nd - 296 new sases in the province.
June 23rd to 30th. - 368 new cases in the province.

24% more cases is a large spike. From just one big protest.

From just the protest. So you mean the 31 new cases due to breakouts at 3 Edmonton restaurants are a cover-up by the Alberta government?

That the reopening of the economy has nothing to do with the increased numbers but the protest all is even though there is no proof of that? Come on dude, you're better than that.

Also testing had gotten much faster. A work colleague of mine got results back in 2 days. They told him average wait time, was 3-5 days.

Edit: also right from the Canada government...
"The estimated incubation period (the time between catching the virus and symptom onset) is 5-6 days on average, ranging from 1 to 14 days."

 

[awesomo]

Outdoor transmission is very unlikely, statistically speaking. So I don’t agree 24% was from the protests. Especially considering they increased gatherings and opened things up. Meaning more people were open to hanging out socially in friends houses and stuff.

unfortunately I don’t have the data but the govt prolly does from contact tracing app.

 

[Soundwave]

Cases in Edmonton are so low that any bump weekly is going to look like a large percentage jump anyway, hard to really infer much of anything with that.

 

[SK13]

Again, if protests were the reason, we'd be seeing massive spikes in NY and Minneapolis where two of the largest and most sustained protests happened.

Instead Florida and Arizona and Texas are on fire. They opened up in late April/early May prematurely. There's an easy correlation there, even in LA and Seattle.

There were also large BLM protests... *checks notes*... everywhere else on planet Earth. So it's funny how the US is uniquely burning.

 

[shoop]

Also testing had gotten much faster. A work colleague of mine got results back in 2 days. They told him average wait time, was 3-5 days.

That fits with the timeline I provided.

You think that is enough to claim all increase in cases root from the protest? That doesn't line up with the events that Alberta Health has said the outbreaks were caused buy, thanks for trying though.

I hope that Alberta Health would look at the protest since there was a spike that would fit the timeline. They haven't for a reason. I believe Hinshaw has been overtly political, both in praising protests she likes and condemning protests she doesn't like. Those are all reasonable questions. Hinshaw has lost all credibility.