Core Four vs. McDavid or Draisaitl

[PistolPete]

After watching both games last night (Leafs and Oilers) and being exceptionally pleased with both outcomes I was mulling over the threads on here, particularly those addessikgnthe Core Four's PO performances and the question popped into my head

If you're the GM of either Toronto or Edmonton, would you pull off a trade of McDavid for all of the Core 4 or Draisaitl for the Core 4 (cap considerations aside)?

If I'm Edmonton GM- no.
If I'm Toronto.GM- in a heartbeat.

Perhaps a different way of saying the Core 4 has been underwhelming in the playoffs?

 

[HabsQC]

Hell no from Toronto. McDavid is signing there in a year.

Big

 

[GlitchMarner]

I'd love to have McDavid on my team, but the Leafs wouldn't be very good if they had just him and Knies up front.

McDavid is immensely better than Matthews and Marner in the playoffs, and it's hard to win a Cup when you have two guys taking up the cap space they occupy and making up two/thirds of your top line. You'd be better off having McDavid and signing someone than with those two if you want a Cup. But you can't gut your entire offense to bring in any one player. The "core four" guys have more collective value than any one player,

 

[seafoam]

McDavid/Draisaitl can literally take over games and have been one win away from Lord Stanley herself.

 

[HabsQC]

I'd love to have McDavid on my team, but the Leafs wouldn't be very good if they had just him and Knies up front.

McDavid is immensely better than Matthews and Marner in the playoffs, and it's hard to win a Cup when you have two guys taking up the cap space they occupy and making up two/thirds of your top line. You'd be better having McDavid and signing someone than with those two if you want a Cup. But you can't gut your entire offense to bring in any one player. The "core four" guys have more collective value than any one player,

Just get more players with the money.

Anyway, Tavares and Marner might be leaving on their own as soon as this summer.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Not even if the core 4 cost the same as McDrai instead of twice the amount

 

[JFedol]

The "core four" guys have more collective value than any one player,

Not when there big time underperforming playoff chokers. There's no way you'd have this same opinion if a player like Gretzky, Howe, Orr or Lemieux was on the table

 

[T REX]

I wouldn't want anything to do with Toronto's rotten "core".

Rotten.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The "core four" guys have more collective value than any one player,

Not when they consistently underperform when it counts.

You're better off trading for McDavid and then using the leftover cap space to sign/trade for 3 other forwards than to keep wasting so much money on those four (although I don't think it's fair to lump Nylander in there -- unlike the other three, he actually produces decently).

 

[Divine]

The cap hits is exactly the reason the Oilers players look better.

Draisaitl took off immediately after signing his long term contract, which made him underpaid for his entire contract allowing more players around him. There’s a reason that Edmonton could afford Campbell/Hyman when the Leafs couldn’t. Draisaitl next year will make closer to double than what he makes this year.

McDavid’s next contract is also going to push the cap up and deplete their depth. The same with Bouchard’s next contract.

Dubas should have signed the Leafs players earlier in their careers and they wouldn’t have been so cap constrained.

If you ignore make the cap even like you suggest, that would mean the Leafs core 4 would have 26M more cap to surround themselves with. That would lead to a much stronger team.

 

[JFedol]

McDavid/Draisaitl can literally take over games and have been one win away from Lord Stanley herself.

This.

The leafs needing (not really needing, but the acquisition of Tavares is just boneheading) 4 f***ing elite players who have ZERO game breaking elements should've told everybody everything.

 

[Stealth1616]

Ignoring the cap is exactly the reason the Oilers players look better.

Draisaitl took off immediately after signing his long term contract, which made him underpaid for his entire contract allowing more players around him. There’s a reason that Edmonton could afford Campbell/Hyman when the Leafs couldn’t. Draisaitl next year will make closer to double than what he makes this year.

McDavid’s next contract is also going to push the cap up and deplete their depth. The same with Bouchard’s next contract.

Dubas should have signed the Leafs players earlier in their careers and they wouldn’t have been so cap constrained.

If you ignore make the cap even like you suggest, that would mean the Leafs core 4 would have 26M more cap to surround themselves with. That would lead to a much stronger team.

Not sure contract status is really relevant, both players are 5x the playoff performers

 

[sunstersun]

This.

The leafs needing (not really needing, but the acquisition of Tavares is just boneheading) 4 f***ing elite players who have ZERO game breaking elements should've told everybody everybody everything.

I think Willy has some game breaking elements.

Marner, Tavares, and Matthews have been chokers.

 

[bleedthenorth]

no from Edmonton

 

[Divine]

Not sure contract status is really relevant, both players are 5x the playoff performers

I mean they’re relevant when every member of the Leafs Core 4 makes a lot more then Drai this year.

That gives Edmonton the cap to surround the team with better players.

The Core 4 combined make 26M more than McDrai make this year. That’s 26M more that Edmonton can spend on other player, they’ve spent closer to 30M more on their rosters excluding those players if you include the Kane LTIR loophole this year.

The Leafs cap situation will get better after this season (Tavares no longer making 11M) while Edmonton’s gets much worse - Drai + Bouch will have new contracts, McDavid next summer.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think Willy has some game breaking elements.

Marner, Tavares, and Matthews have been chokers.

Nylander reminds me of Kessel. A guy who generally performs in the playoffs, but isn't someone who can be the #1 guy on a team. But trade him to a team that's already got it's #1 (or #2) and he'll be a huge contributor to that team's Cup run.

 

[JFedol]

I think Willy has some game breaking elements.

Marner, Tavares, and Matthews have been chokers.

I was going to say 3 lol, because Nylander has always been alright playoff wise. But yeah, those other 3 are the most egregious playoff players in the cap era by far only rivaled by Gaudreau (maybe a reach) and Thronton

 

[Ignatius]

I would trade all Snore 4 members for McDavid, I'll even have Johnny Toronto throw in some new Leafs pajamas for Connor to wear. I would do Drai for Captain 'Murica and Little Mitchy.

 

[PistolPete]

Not when they consistently underperform when it counts.

You're better off trading for McDavid and then using the leftover cap space to sign/trade for 3 other forwards than to keep wasting so much money on those four (although I don't think it's fair to lump Nylander in there -- unlike the other three, he actually produces decently).

Nylander- Gotta give something of value in the trade.

 

[sunstersun]

Nylander reminds me of Kessel. A guy who generally performs in the playoffs, but isn't someone who can be the #1 guy on a team. But trade him to a team that's already got it's #1 (or #2) and he'll be a huge contributor to that team's Cup run.

I honestly think 99% of wingers aren't good enough to be a #1 guy on a team. The only exception I've seen is Ovi and Kuch. Even the year Ovi won, Kuz was absolutely nuts.

 

[hamzarocks]

I honestly think 99% of wingers aren't good enough to be a #1 guy on a team. The only exception I've seen is Ovi and Kuch. Even the year Ovi won, Kuz was absolutely nuts.

Kucherov, Kane, OV are the top 3 wingers from 05 to now, with kucherov being the best of the 3 at the time of cup wins (this is 2018 OV not 3-year peak OV from 08 to 10 where he didnt win). They were the best skater for at minimum 4 cups (2013, 2018, 2020, and 2021) and then 2010 and 2015 for Kane he was #2 slightly behind Toews and Keith.

Besides those 3, other wingers who were close to #1 would be Tkachuk last year but that was a very deep team and had a bunch of producers. He was top 2 skaters probably tied with Barkov.

Rantanen is #1 by a mile for Dallas at the moment but they need 9 more playoff wins for him to join the tier

For teams whose best player was a winger and they lost in SCFs

Tkachuk in 2023 was the clear best player for reg season and their best skater for the playoffs with bobrovsky being best player as a goalie for the Panthers in the final loss to VEG

Marchand in 2019 was also the Bruins best player for both reg season + playoffs with him leading the NHL playoffs in pts (tied maybe with RoR).

There have been wingers who have won as #1 or been close winning as #1. Typically though a 1C is the best player or a 1D

 

[sunstersun]

Kucherov, Kane, OV are the top 3 wingers from 05 to now, with kucherov being the best of the 3 at the time of cup wins (this is 2018 OV not 3-year peak OV from 08 to 10 where he didnt win)

Besides those 3, other wingers who were close to #1 would be Tkachuk last year but that was a very deep team and had a bunch of producers.

Rantanen is #1 by a mile for Dallas at the moment but they need 9 more playoff wins for him to join the tier

For teams whose best player was a winger and they lost in SCFs

Tkachuk in 2023 was the clear best player for reg season and their best skater for the playoffs with bobrovsky being best player as a goalie for the Panthers in the final loss to VEG

Marchand in 2019 was also the Bruins best player for both reg season + playoffs with him leading the NHL playoffs in pts (tied maybe with RoR).

There have been wingers who have won as #1 or been close winning as #1. Typically though a 1C is the best player or a 1D

Even a guy like Pasta hasn't done much in the postseason.

Kuch is obviously insane, you're right about Ovi. I think it's arguable and generally accepted Kuznetzov was the better player that run.

Kane did it, but also had a guaranteed stud #1D and #1C, not to diminish him at all, but after they signed their contracts, they also never won again.

In summation, Kuch is the winger anomaly imo.

edit: the gap between Kieth, Kane and Toews was never large enough to be a clear #1 imo. Even if Kane was better, it was marginal at best.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I mean they’re relevant when every member of the Leafs Core 4 makes a lot more then Drai this year.

That gives Edmonton the cap to surround the team with better players.

The Core 4 combined make 26M more than McDrai make this year. That’s 26M more that Edmonton can spend on other player, they’ve spent closer to 30M more on their rosters excluding those players if you include the Kane LTIR loophole this year.

The Leafs cap situation will get better after this season (Tavares no longer making 11M) while Edmonton’s gets much worse - Drai + Bouch will have new contracts, McDavid next summer.

I’d take Draisaitl + Perry + Brown + Kulak in the playoffs over the Leafs’ core 4.

 

[Frank Drebin]

The cap hits is exactly the reason the Oilers players look better.

Draisaitl took off immediately after signing his long term contract, which made him underpaid for his entire contract allowing more players around him. There’s a reason that Edmonton could afford Campbell/Hyman when the Leafs couldn’t. Draisaitl next year will make closer to double than what he makes this year.

McDavid’s next contract is also going to push the cap up and deplete their depth. The same with Bouchard’s next contract.

Dubas should have signed the Leafs players earlier in their careers and they wouldn’t have been so cap constrained.

If you ignore make the cap even like you suggest, that would mean the Leafs core 4 would have 26M more cap to surround themselves with. That would lead to a much stronger team.

Leafs currently have one of the best rosters in the league

 

[Video Nasty]

The Oilers have done their best to be blow it with McDavid and Draisaitl. Can’t imagine how much worse they’d be with a bunch of chokers.