News Article: Contract talks for Senators’ Matt Duchene: update - Offer made

[God Says No]

Did I miss this announcement? Was it not covered by the local media?

No, don't think there was anything unless I missed something. I think that comment stems from what Garrioch said over the weekend that some changes are coming, and the veteran pieces (he mentioned Dzingel, Smith, Andy) were going to be moved. The funny part is that he had no mention of the coaching staff. They should be moved as well.

 

[Que]

It feels like we should be relegated.

Like if this was club soccer the Sens would have / will be punted to the AHL and the Charlotte Checkers will be taking our place.

This team would have been religated twice by now it’s so bad.

I hate soccer but that system of promoting good teams and demoting bad ones is pretty cool.

 

[topshelf15]

This team would have been religated twice by now it’s so bad.

I hate soccer but that system of promoting good teams and demoting bad ones is pretty cool.

Keeps them honest,our owner would have no choice but to ensure his team is competitive year after year

 

[branch]

OK, a first rounder is only a high end return if it is top 10. Does not mean it won't turn into a high end player, but the odds get very low as the draft goes on. And anyone grabbing Duchesne will be looking at taking a run for the cup, so you can get its likely in the 25+ range for the pick. Not worthless, but generally a prospect with questions marks, a B level prospect to me.

I expect a first plus an A level prospect, that is common return for a rental of this caliber.

Lmao, Karlsson didn't even get this. Dorion in charge means we will get a 2nd and some obscure prospect no one has ever heard of.

 

[branch]

Don't worry, this is a guy that can get a deal done

 

[topshelf15]

Lmao, Karlsson didn't even get this. Dorion in charge means we will get a 2nd and some obscure prospect no one has ever heard of.

Thats a serious overpay,we send them a 3rd

 

[GrantLemons]

We're getting f*** all for Duchene and Stone if we have to trade them. We have like 2 months before the TDL, might have to move both guys, and are just figuring that out now (ie. likely there is no trade talk that has happened already, so deals will have to be architected from scratch). GM's are going to sense our desperateness and the fact we have zero leverage and lowball the living f*** out of us.

I feel like the night is about to be it's darkest. I'm just praying the dawn follows shortly after.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Assuming Eugene is in it for the long haul here and plans to milk every last drop out of the Ottawa lemon whilst putting nothing back into the city or team I would be looking to deal our UFA's and anything of value ASAP prior to the self created and media character assassinations that are being penned as we speak. Get destroyed in trade yet again and get a few 3rd to 6th rounders and begin the hamster wheel in hell as a fan with no success and negative hope, will have to develop a team exclusively through the draft which will consist of basically all entry level contracts as there will be no seasoned professional in their right mind even considering signing with Melnyk imo.

 

[topshelf15]

We're getting **** all for Duchene and Stone if we have to trade them. We have like 2 months before the TDL, might have to move both guys, and are just figuring that out now (ie. likely there is no trade talk that has happened already, so deals will have to be architected from scratch). GM's are going to sense our desperateness and the fact we have zero leverage and lowball the living **** out of us.

I feel like the night is about to be it's darkest. I'm just praying the dawn follows shortly after.

That small flash of light u see is probably the atom bomb detonating

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

That small flash of light u see is probably the atom bomb detonating

Unfortunately we weren't able to retain the bomb for this season. Its financial demands were unreasonable.

Its been replaced by some fireworks bought out of a trailer in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

 

[NorthCoast]

Assuming Eugene is in it for the long haul here and plans to milk every last drop out of the Ottawa lemon whilst putting nothing back into the city or team I would be looking to deal our UFA's and anything of value ASAP prior to the self created and media character assassinations that are being penned as we speak. Get destroyed in trade yet again and get a few 3rd to 6th rounders and begin the hamster wheel in hell as a fan with no success and negative hope, will have to develop a team exclusively through the draft which will consist of basically all entry level contracts as there will be no seasoned professional in their right mind even considering signing with Melnyk imo.

It's a sad situation and the team would be better off just trying to be honest as it's becoming increasingly clear what is happening.

- Melnyk got burned by Ryan deal.
- Cannot afford 2 more high-priced players with NMC if they stop performing.
- Team has clearly shown they will move anyone.
- Duchene and Stone (and EK 4 months ago) want to control where they play the next 7 years, and since the team has shown they will trade them out on a whim if needed, they are refusing to sign without a NMC.

It's as simple as that. Term/Salary/Bonus/etc, could all be worked out if both sides were interested. But the NMC is a deal-breaker and it's very frustrating because Duchene and Stone could end up signing somewhere else in the summer without a NMC. ie: IMO it's a deal-breaker specifically with the sens because the current management/ownership has not shown that they can be trusted by players and/or we are so far from the cup in the mind of players that it's not worth taking a chance.

As a fan. Knowing that your top players either don't trust or don't have confidence in managements competence...That sucks.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Lmao, Karlsson didn't even get this. Dorion in charge means we will get a 2nd and some obscure prospect no one has ever heard of.

Dorion sold sooo low on Karlsson

Not only was he coming off his worst season in ages, but teams have way less cap flexibility at the start of the year

I'm guessing we will get a 1st + but probably not an A level prospect

 

[OmniSens]

It's a sad situation and the team would be better off just trying to be honest as it's becoming increasingly clear what is happening.

- Melnyk got burned by Ryan deal.
- Cannot afford 2 more high-priced players with NMC if they stop performing.
- Team has clearly shown they will move anyone.
- Duchene and Stone (and EK 4 months ago) want to control where they play the next 7 years, and since the team has shown they will trade them out on a whim if needed, they are refusing to sign without a NMC.

It's as simple as that. Term/Salary/Bonus/etc, could all be worked out if both sides were interested. But the NMC is a deal-breaker and it's very frustrating because Duchene and Stone could end up signing somewhere else in the summer without a NMC. ie: IMO it's a deal-breaker specifically with the sens because the current management/ownership has not shown that they can be trusted by players and/or we are so far from the cup in the mind of players that it's not worth taking a chance.

As a fan. Knowing that your top players either don't trust or don't have confidence in managements competence...That sucks.

I think it's a harsh thing to do comparing Ryan to Stone and Duchene.

 

[NorthCoast]

I think it's a harsh thing to do comparing Ryan to Stone and Duchene.

Lol, Don't shoot the messenger.

I don't think it matter who the names are. On most other teams you factor risk into the equation, and I agree, for most teams it's worth the risk to sign Duchene and Stone to 8-year deals with NMC, even though they could begin getting hand injuries every two weeks and end up like Ryan.

But in order to make that call you need some level of risk tolerance, where risk tolerance might mean accepting loses if the players you bet on don't perform.

But what if your risk tolerance is zero. This means that you cannot lock yourself into long expensive contracts because you cannot afford any risk. ie: every player must be low cost or able to be moved.

Therefore no NMC's, and no Duchene/Stone.

 

[branch]

In my mind, both Stone and Duchene have conspired to both walk/be traded by their refusal to sign a deal, thus effectively sacrificing themselves for the future of the team. If they both walk, this team is 2 steps closer to Eugene needing to sell the team.

 

[Icelevel]

People complain when the organization talks too much about private matters.
Now when they finally negotiate in privacy people are spinning out of control here making stuff up and weaving speculation webs etc.

Can everyone calm down a notch?

 

[DaveMatthew]

People complain when the organization talks too much about private matters.
Now when they finally negotiate in privacy people are spinning out of control here making stuff up and weaving speculation webs etc.

Can everyone calm down a notch?

I think people are concerned because according to reports, no negotations are going on.

Talks have cooled with Matt Duchene. Mark Stone said his agent and Dorion will sit down in 2-3 weeks.

What's the delay? I thought a long-term deal with Stone was all but agreed upon in August?

 

[IlTerrifico]

Some perspective on what moving Duchene and Stone will mean for the Sens in the next 5 years.

Unless they get proven up and coming talent for them, or top 5 draft picks, the chance of replacing these point a game players with other point a game players in the trade bounty is probably 10-15% each. So little hope of replacement of great players there. See Karlsson, Erik...

So after horrible seasons in 2017-18, 2018-19, and 2019-20 with their pick still in hand (hopefully, See Dorion, Pierre, foolishly fleeced), the Sens would likely be bottom 3 in the league, and have say a 20% chance of drafting in each of spots 1-5 in 2020, based on actual finish and luck with the lottery balls. Recent drafts show about 50% of players in the 1-5 slot are very good/excellent, and the higher the pick the better. Stars are good right away, very goods often take a few years to start producing (e.g. Barkov) and many of the 50% who aren't very good/excellent are not really great additions to the roster. Note that more than half of the league's top scorers are top 5 picks.

Assuming four horrible seasons from 2019-20 to 2022-23, the Sens could expect to draft one star, and one very good player out of the 4 drafts. This will effectively replace the Stone and Duchene production, unless one of the players is a defenseman.

In the absence of other picks yielding several very good talents, or existing players emerging as stars, or other moves falling into place, where does this leave the Sens for the 2023-24 season? About where they are now, probably stronger in terms of depth players, but with the same ownership, weakened by better players leaving regularly.

So without a big intervention of fate, (not necessarily referring to a giant heart attack or organ failure...), it appears many years of mediocrity are in the cards, aided and abetted by the dumbest, most intervening owner in sports. Miami Marlins of the north, anyone?

 

[Icelevel]

I think people are concerned because according to reports, no negotations are going on.

Talks have cooled with Matt Duchene. Mark Stone said his agent and Dorion will sit down in 2-3 weeks.

What's the delay? I thought a long-term deal with Stone was all but agreed upon in August?

We don’t need or want constant updates on the negotiations though.

The “reports” are complete bs for all we know. So ignore them

 

[BatherSeason]

Now when they finally negotiate in privacy people are spinning out of control here making stuff up and weaving speculation webs etc.

Its probably because they aren't actually negotiating.

We have a report from Dreger on TSN that says they are negotiating, then Sportsnet has a contradicting report. Enough will the bulls**** and spin jobs the media have done for this organization, the fans deserve to know the truth.

 

[Fandlauer]

People complain when the organization talks too much about private matters.
Now when they finally negotiate in privacy people are spinning out of control here making stuff up and weaving speculation webs etc.

Can everyone calm down a notch?

Any other team would have signed these guys a year and a half ago. The only negotiations going on are trade negotiations.

 

[Engineer]

We don’t need or want constant updates on the negotiations though.

The “reports” are complete bs for all we know. So ignore them

The reports came from Chris Johnson, who is very reputable.

 

[Icelevel]

The reports came from Chris Johnson, who is very reputable.

Really. So he sat down with everyone and they totally opened up and spilled the beans for him?
They are (should be) trying to keep things quiet until something is done. So if reporters keep harassing them for answers then logically they would (should) say “yeah, nothing to see here. Come back later” No harm no fowl, room to breathe

 

[BatherSeason]

Predictions for what the character assassinations will be centred around? I think Duchene will get it much worse than Stone.

1) Matt Duchene - "too flashy, selfish player, he tries to do everything on the ice by himself, teammates hate selfish players, there was a reason Colorado has gotten better since he left"
2) Mark Stone - this one will be tricky, I am pretty sure the media will have a tough time spinning this one, my guess is that "he wants to win, competitive guy who doesn't see it happening here soon enough".

 

[BatherSeason]

Really. So he sat down with everyone and they totally opened up and spilled the beans for him?
They are (should be) trying to keep things quiet until something is done. So if reporters keep harassing them for answers then logically they would (should) say “yeah, nothing to see here. Come back later” No harm no fowl, room to breathe

Pretty sure they get their inside info from the agents or from the organization themselves, so it wouldn't be from harassing a player. Also, the Ottawa Senators organization is notorious since the Murray days for "leaking info" for no apparent reason, so my bet is that someone from the org leaked the info to ramp up trade talk.