Cont'd - NHL makes 12-year/$5.2 billion Canadian TV deal w/ Sportsnet, CBC, TSN out

[joelef]

100% Agreed.

The NHL will regret this deal. 12 years from now, when the dust settles, hockey will barely be hanging on as the most popular spectator sport in Canada. Times are changing.

Sportsnet is primarily targeted toward senior citizens. That's why they got baseball, which, of the four major leagues, is the only one that has a really senior viewership demographic. Sportsnet is probably the most popular network in retirement homes.

TSN is targeted to young, urban folks. They will be weaned off hockey over time. People won't realize it right away, but at the end of this deal, the exorbitant growth in soccer and basketball we've seen thus far will continue. Canada is already producing elite talent in the NBA.

I just hope that TSN somehow remains committed to hockey despite this snubbing, and maybe picks up the CHL when that deal expires and turns that into a hot property.

they werent getting them before this deal when they were on TSN.

 

[MarkGio]

I've already said this but sure, why not again. CBC is a crown corporation which will now be providing services to Rogers for free during primetime for them to general profits. If you can explain to me how the CRTC can justifiably allow a PUBLIC entity to create revenue for a PRIVATE enterprise without breaking any anti-trust laws, I'd love to hear it.

You can start by reading:

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/statutes-lois.htm

 

[Habsawce]

What?

CBC has no revenue or costs for HNiC, which is a mere fraction of their radio, television, journalistic and internet operations. It allows them to promote CBC broadcast and its other operations during HNiC while Rogers eats the bill for the air time. Rogers only controls the editing and personnel. If CBC decides to take HNiC off the air, that's CBC's call.

Rogers own HNIC in it's totality and is given the prime time TV slot to run their production of HNIC. They pay for production but they receive all revenue from this show and CBC get's nothing. This is a crown corporation being bent over the table by a private enterprise for the sake of nostalgia while the tax payers wil be forced to cover the cost of the revenue they've lost from HNIC.

If CBC isn't going to be able to run HNIC I'd rather it not be on. I don't think it's ethically sound to have a government entity providing revenue for a private company. That's against the law in any other setting but because they've taken out the actual paper transaction of giving them the profits it will slide under the rug.

 

[MarkGio]

Rogers own HNIC in it's totality and is given the prime time TV slot to run their production of HNIC. They pay for production but they receive all revenue from this show and CBC get's nothing. This is a crown corporation being bent over the table by a private enterprise for the sake of nostalgia while the tax payers wil be forced to cover the cost of the revenue they've lost from HNIC.

If CBC isn't going to be able to run HNIC I'd rather it not be on. I don't think it's ethically sound to have a government entity providing revenue for a private company. That's against the law in any other setting but because they've taken out the actual paper transaction of giving them the profits it will slide under the rug.

What law exactly?

 

[joelef]

the NHL wasnt getting those young urban demographic before this deal and still arent getting on TSN.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

Rogers own HNIC in it's totality and is given the prime time TV slot to run their production of HNIC. They pay for production but they receive all revenue from this show and CBC get's nothing. This is a crown corporation being bent over the table by a private enterprise for the sake of nostalgia while the tax payers wil be forced to cover the cost of the revenue they've lost from HNIC.

If CBC isn't going to be able to run HNIC I'd rather it not be on. I don't think it's ethically sound to have a government entity providing revenue for a private company. That's against the law in any other setting but because they've taken out the actual paper transaction of giving them the profits it will slide under the rug.

I'm confused why you think its illegal, in this setting or any other. The government, and its crown corporations utilize and compensate private companies for all sorts of different agreements.

There's nothing illegal about this.

 

[Doc McKenna]

then Blame TSN for not stepping up to the plate.

TSN wasn't even allowed to bid, but thanks for stopping in.

 

[saffronleaf]

I'm not blaming the NHL for not taking "10X less money" (where did you get the numbers that Bell offered?). Obviously they are a business and going to try to make the most profit they can. So will Rogers and I'm sure they have a plan to squeeze the most out of consumers that they can. That doesn't mean it's a good thing for hockey fans.

Oh and for the record, I think the NHL WILL regret this decision. In my opinion, it will end up damaging hockey's popularity in Canada and quite possibly for a very long time.

I can see it as the start of a long, slow decline -- similar to what happened to baseball in the US.

Older folks with more money who grew up as hockey fans will shell out the money to buy the channels they need to buy to watch.

Younger folks will not be able to afford it. Immigrants are a massive and rapidly growing chunk of Canada's population; like non-fans, they are not going to PAY to become hooked to hockey. You'll need to televise it freely so they get exposed to it and become fans.

Hockey has already been declining for a very long time in Canada as a participation sport because of how expensive it is to play. Now the NHL has ensured the same decline will happen in terms of viewership.

I think the big benefit will be for whatever property TSN decides to get behind for the next decade. It could be the NBA, or it could be the CHL, or something else. Whatever it is, it will rise significantly in popularity.

 

[joelef]

I can see it as the start of a long, slow decline -- similar to what happened to baseball in the US.

Older folks with more money who grew up as hockey fans will shell out the money to buy the channels they need to buy to watch.

Younger folks will not be able to afford it. Immigrants are a massive and rapidly growing chunk of Canada's population; like non-fans, they are not going to PAY to become hooked to hockey. You'll need to televise it freely so they get exposed to it and become fans.

Hockey has already been declining for a very long time in Canada as a participation sport because of how expensive it is to play. Now the NHL has ensured the same decline will happen in terms of viewership.

I think the big benefit will be for whatever property TSN decides to get behind for the next decade. It could be the NBA, or it could be the CHL, or something else. Whatever it is, it will rise significantly in popularity.

and yet when the NHL was on TSN this didnt happen.

 

[saffronleaf]

Sold to private enterprise for a profit, CBC is giving their biggest money maker for free to Rogers to earn them revenue. This would be like CN Rail giving another company the rights to their tracks for free and all the profits but getting to keep their name on the sign. Foolish, unethical, whatever you want to call it, CBC messed up here.

If the CBC were like the BBC, I would want to keep it.

Whatever your opinions are about public broadcasting channels, I think everyone will agree that this move by the CBC shows that it is desperate and foolish. It is a shell of what it once was -- and what it once was was never near the quality of, for example, the BBC.

With this deal, the CBC has become a national embarrassment. A mere shell for corporations to exploit and make profits from.

 

[Vegeta]

and yet when the NHL was on TSN this didnt happen.

The NHL was divided between TSN, Sportsnet and CBC before this. Now Rogers owns all the rights.

 

[Auguste McEscoffier]

Does TSN still have the broadcasting rights to NBC Sports, or are those Pens vs Rangers game also going to be SNET's?

 

[Doc McKenna]

That's the key, and to use not a totally analogous situation, but somewhat similar, Directv's monopoly on NFL Sunday Ticket here in the US, you would think now they could charge even more for this service. They've actually been cutting the price of Sunday Ticket in recent years, and even including it for free for new subscribers. There is a point where consumers draw the line...I suspect we might see that in the NHL if Rogers goes out of control.

You clearly don't understand the abuse we face. We have report after report of why cars manufactured here in Ontario cost thousand more than the same model sold in Hawaii. Figure that one out.

 

[joelef]

The NHL was divided between TSN, Sportsnet and CBC before this. Now Rogers owns all the rights.

so if it was totally on TSN it would get the urban demographic ?

 

[saffronleaf]

the NHL wasnt getting those young urban demographic before this deal and still arent getting on TSN.

I have to really question whether you are young or live in a city, because that's flat out wrong. TSN had that market cornered.

The majority of males in Canada in their 20s in a Canadian city will have TSN as their default channel.

Most young, urban folks, to the extent they care about sports, care about multiple sports. TSN made hockey king, and that kept hockey popular.

And again, I severely doubt you are young or near a city in Canada. Otherwise, you'd know that in cities like Toronto and Vancouver there are pretty significant young urban folks and immigrants that followed hockey and TSN -- whether in Surrey or Mississauga.

 

[agent2421]

100% Agreed.

The NHL will regret this deal. 12 years from now, when the dust settles, hockey will barely be hanging on as the most popular spectator sport in Canada. Times are changing.

Sportsnet is primarily targeted toward senior citizens. That's why they got baseball, which, of the four major leagues, is the only one that has a really senior viewership demographic. Sportsnet is probably the most popular network in retirement homes.

TSN is targeted to young, urban folks. They will be weaned off hockey over time. People won't realize it right away, but at the end of this deal, the exorbitant growth in soccer and basketball we've seen thus far will continue. Canada is already producing elite talent in the NBA.

I just hope that TSN somehow remains committed to hockey despite this snubbing, and maybe picks up the CHL when that deal expires and turns that into a hot property.

agreed. It will be a slow transition but overall I think hockey will not grow more as a result of this. I hope I'm wrong because I love hockey but I really do think TSN is just superior and have showed it with many different sports and not just hockey. The Canadian talent in the NBA is growing, The Bills might be moving to Toronto. NFL could be huge in Toronto if it gets regular broadcasts on TSN weekly, absolutely huge.

12 years is a long time. It really depends also on how much Rogers tries to screw the fans over with these bundles. Not everyone has cable, not everyone has rogers, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

TSN wasn't even allowed to bid, but thanks for stopping in.

...source?

 

[joelef]

I have to really question whether you are young or live in a city, because that's flat out wrong. TSN had that market cornered.

The majority of males in Canada in their 20s in a Canadian city will have TSN as their default channel.

Most young, urban folks, to the extent they care about sports, care about multiple sports. TSN made hockey king, and that kept hockey popular.

And again, I severely doubt you are young or near a city in Canada. Otherwise, you'd know that in cities like Toronto and Vancouver there are pretty significant young urban folks and immigrants that followed hockey and TSN -- whether in Surrey or Mississauga.

youth hockey in scarborough says otherwise.

 

[Habsawce]

I'm confused why you think its illegal, in this setting or any other. The government, and its crown corporations utilize and compensate private companies for all sorts of different agreements.

There's nothing illegal about this.

In another setting, this one is loop holed. If a government department/agency/crown corporation cut a deal like this while being run by an elected official there would be reprimands. So because they have a CEO at arm's length to the government and no public accountability he is not liable and they can essentially give away their #1 asset for free.

 

[MarkGio]

Do people even listen/watch/read CBC?

Go to the website right now and show me one single private ad outside of HNiC. Listen to CBC radio and do the same. There's a reason why HNiC was the bread and butter of CBC...

CBC is doing its job, as per its purpose.

 

[saffronleaf]

so if it was totally on TSN it would get the urban demographic ?

What do you even mean by 'urban demographic' -- city-dwellers? Because I feel like you're using it for a proxy for something else. Because certainly plenty of young city-dwellers in Canada have TSN as their default go-to channel. You have nothing in particular that you want to watch? Flip on TSN for some SC or live event.

Personally, I would want the deal to be split between broadcasters so that they continue to compete to improve their production values, keep costs low for consumers, and guarantee that there is a public, free option through CBC.

We have none of that in this deal. HNiC is being paid lip service for four years before they're allowed to die off. With no competition, Sportsnet's senior citizen show will continue with is primitive production values. And of course, prices will skyrocket.

 

[Vegeta]

so if it was totally on TSN it would get the urban demographic ?

TSN has the highest ratings of any sports network in Canada; they dwarf SN and SN 360 combined, even when it is not showing hockey. Out of all of the networks, TSN gives sports to most exposure to the Canadian population. The NHL should have let them do a counter offer, if not for that reason alone.

 

[joelef]

What do you even mean by 'urban demographic' -- city-dwellers? Because I feel like you're using it for a proxy for something else. Because certainly plenty of young city-dwellers in Canada have TSN as their default go-to channel. You have nothing in particular that you want to watch? Flip on TSN for some SC or live event.

Personally, I would want the deal to be split between broadcasters so that they continue to compete to improve their production values, keep costs low for consumers, and guarantee that there is a public, free option through CBC.

We have none of that in this deal. HNiC is being paid lip service for four years before they're allowed to die off. With no competition, Sportsnet's senior citizen show will continue with is primitive production values. And of course, prices will skyrocket.

CBC was already marching to its death.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Yeah i say next time the NHL shouldnt bid for TV rights . they should make a law that the NHL can only sell tv rights to cbc and "free" networks.

ARe you even aware that the 1 Billion supports 3 TV networks 4 Radio channels and its website in both official languages and also Punjabi broadcast for the leafs?
ALso this article points how the CBC has now been used as a vehicle for private enterprise to use the public broadcaster as a way of taking more money from the public http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ing-private-media-via-the-cbc/article9476956/

 

[PensFanSince1989]

The NHL was divided between TSN, Sportsnet and CBC before this. Now Rogers owns all the rights.

It really wasn't divided to Sportsnet anymore than its now divided to TSN. Sportsnet only had regional tv deals, something TSN still has (Jets, Habs in English) and can pursue further.

And while Rogers has control of it, CBC will still air the games as a network on Saturray. Its not drastically different than how it is today. Yeah, more exclusive, alhut a little bit chicken little going on here.