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Tribute Conor Timmins Appreciation

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DarkKnight said:
I have to be honest, the fact Timmins has good advanced stats make me question their contextual relevance, because he is just awful defensively, an adventure every play, horrible recognition and easily loses battles. Is it because who Keefe shelters him with, zone starts, because i just don’t see it at all. To me he’s a cautionary tale on advanced stats, or perhaps an outlier, because that’s some horrible d there.
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A quick look suggests his rates are high because of the offense he generates. Similar defensive impact to Laggeson, much better offense. Both sheltered
 
DarkKnight said:
I really liked him when he first came up last year, great first pass and good offensive vision. He really tailed off though, you started to see the defensively liabilities and an inability to process quick coverages. I’m not giving up on him, but he doesnt look like an NHL D man to me, his offence is completely offset by his defensive deficiencies. I’m willing to change my mind, just don’t see it so far.
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He was a good two way defender in junior, but we haven’t seen that in the NHL. It will be interesting to see how he does. He hasn’t played much pro hockey over the last 5 years. Could be a late bloomer or a bust for sure. I just want to see what we have in the kid.
 
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DarkKnight said:
I really liked him when he first came up last year, great first pass and good offensive vision. He really tailed off though, you started to see the defensively liabilities and an inability to process quick coverages. I’m not giving up on him, but he doesnt look like an NHL D man to me, his offence is completely offset by his defensive deficiencies. I’m willing to change my mind, just don’t see it so far.
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He’s got potential……as a winger…….
 
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rumman said:
He’s got potential……as a winger…….
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I don't know if I see him as a winger. His greatest strength seems to be seeing the offensive play evolve and make a smart offensive play, assuming he's surveying this from the blueline. His actual skillset looks kinda rough though, just doesn't look like a winger. Choppy skating, lumbering stride, doesn't handle the puck all that smoothly.
 
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GoonieFace said:
This guy is a perfect case of stats don’t tell the whole truth, he’s pretty terrible
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At least he has upside and he has to play to get better but I agree stats don’t tell the whole story with him for sure
 
GoonieFace said:
This guy is a perfect case of stats don’t tell the whole truth, he’s pretty terrible
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You brought him up for no discernible reason in the Reaves thread so your judgment leaves something to be desired.

Roo said:
He was a good two way defender in junior, but we haven’t seen that in the NHL. It will be interesting to see how he does. He hasn’t played much pro hockey over the last 5 years. Could be a late bloomer or a bust for sure. I just want to see what we have in the kid.
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We actually have. He's played 41 games the last two seasons and is tops in 5v5 CF%, xGF%, and in case you're skeptical of advanced stats, at 57% GF% (that's behind Sandin/Liljegren and a little bit behind McCabe/Giordano because they were all much better last season). Also tops in HDCF% and HDGF%. So this narrative that he's poor defensively is not backed up by anything. Yes he gives the puck up sometimes, so does anyone puck-moving D. I'd say he takes risks at a similar level as McCabe but actually gives a better effort trying to clean them up.

It's really bizarre to see so many people fixated on shitting on this guy when he's had far and away the best results of any defenseman this season. People are giving Benoit credit for fantastic defensive play and Timmins' numbers aren't far off. Benoit gets excused for being absolutely godawful with the puck in the neutral and offensive zone because he throws hits, I guess. There is reason to be skeptical that Timmins would do better with more minutes (we've seen Liljegren, Sandin etc. excel with easy 3rd pair minutes but struggle when moved up) or that his play is sustainable given his injury history, but he's doing fine right now so why pick on him?

You could have levelled some of the same criticisms (weird choppy stride, awkward puckhandling, not overly physical) at Cody Franson back in the day and yeah, in the end his play dropped off a cliff but he was actually pretty good for a while even if miscast as a top pair D.
 
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Stephen said:
I don't know if I see him as a winger. His greatest strength seems to be seeing the offensive play evolve and make a smart offensive play, assuming he's surveying this from the blueline. His actual skillset looks kinda rough though, just doesn't look like a winger. Choppy skating, lumbering stride, doesn't handle the puck all that smoothly.
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I will have to pay closer attention.

I have him as a good puck handler with excellent vision and the second best passer on the team.
He makes 1 fumbly at least a game so you are probably right with the puck handling.
 
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The Iceman said:
I will have to pay closer attention.

I have him as a good puck handler with excellent vision and the second best passer on the team.
He makes 1 fumbly at least a game so you are probably right with the puck handling.
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Gio should not be taking him out of the lineup
 
Evgeny Oliker said:
So let’s say Timmins is not great defensively, but ok. Isn’t he ok enough defensively to play 3rd pair and get 2nd PP time?

I believe that’s what he did last game…
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I’m honestly quite interested in a 3rd pairing of Benoit-Timmins.

They play different games and if allowed to learn together, I think their skills could complement each other well given familiarity and individual development.

3rd pairing with grit, defence (Benoit), offensive upside and able to get out of the zone (Timmins), for a combined cost of $2m? I think you need to look at that.
 
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Evgeny Oliker said:
So let’s say Timmins is not great defensively, but ok. Isn’t he ok enough defensively to play 3rd pair and get 2nd PP time?

I believe that’s what he did last game…
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He isn't okay though, he's an adventure every single time. Any pressure whatsoever and he's lost and his IQ positioning wise is awful too. I don't see how anyone actually watching this guy can say he's NHL caliber atm.
 
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LeafSteel said:
I’m honestly quite interested in a 3rd pairing of Benoit-Timmins.

They play different games and if allowed to learn together, I think their skills could complement each other well given familiarity and individual development.

3rd pairing with grit, defence (Benoit), offensive upside and able to get out of the zone (Timmins), for a combined cost of $2m? I think you need to look at that.
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Yeah they were pretty good together the other night.
 
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ULF_55 said:
Keefe should ice the line-up with the best chance to win.

Perhaps they have that information available?

Go with 7 D, and 10 forwards, and get rid of the 8 minute a night sympathy ice time.
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I guess they’d go 7 and 11 if jarnkrok can’t go but if he can gio shouldn’t be in
 
Evgeny Oliker said:
So let’s say Timmins is not great defensively, but ok. Isn’t he ok enough defensively to play 3rd pair and get 2nd PP time?

I believe that’s what he did last game…
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It's funny.. the opinions on him vary wildly... he seems to be one of those guys who makes those mistakes that are very visible, and people remember those moments. Yet, he regularly is one of the top players on the team with things like xG%, Corsi, Fenwick... etc... and his actual GA/60 is near the tops in the team. I just think we need to be patient and give him more time. He's become more physical, has a great point shot.. (Which I keep hearing we need to obtain), is a great passer, and still is relatively inexperienced... plus he's pretty cheap if he actually continues to have good on ice results.... you know, in case those who hate him are right, and he's just getting extremely lucky with Goals against, and goals for.
 
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Fogelhund said:
It's funny.. the opinions on him vary wildly... he seems to be one of those guys who makes those mistakes that are very visible, and people remember those moments. Yet, he regularly is one of the top players on the team with things like xG%, Corsi, Fenwick... etc... and his actual GA/60 is near the tops in the team. I just think we need to be patient and give him more time. He's become more physical, has a great point shot.. (Which I keep hearing we need to obtain), is a great passer, and still is relatively inexperienced... plus he's pretty cheap if he actually continues to have good on ice results.... you know, in case those who hate him are right, and he's just getting extremely lucky with Goals against, and goals for.
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He just needs to play to work some things out and clean his game up
 
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