Connor Mcdavid and Evan Bouchard Vs Rasmus Dahlin and Jack Eichel

[the_fan]

And Dahlin posted the 2nd highest point total for an 18 year old blueliner, in NHL history

We're talking about the two best prospects since Crosby, who will battle for the crown of the league's best player for many years to come.

You keep saying that but I'm not too sold on that because the scoring was up last season and while that's impressive for an 18 year old d-man, its something that I wont be surprised if more young d-men come to the league and do that.

If Byram makes the Avs this season and scores 40 points, is he the next generational player in the league? I mean it's not too crazy to think he can do it, but its certainly more rare for forwards to come into the league and score 100 points as a rookie.

 

[bobholly39]

40 points in the NHL - even for an 18 year old defenseman - is nowhere near as impressive as some people make it out to be. Doesn't mean Dahlin isn't special - it's just that this metric is truly not.

Many other NHL rookie defenders (not specifically 18 yr olds - but 19 and 20 yr olds yes) since the lockout have exceeded the 40 point mark.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I feel like Dahlin is under rated. If he played for a bigger market team, or a team that was decent, he would get the appropriate level of hype. Sabres fans are actually unussually quiet about him after over hyping Eichel and guys like Reinhart / Mittelstadt.

I honestly think it will be a toss up in a few years.. McDavid or Dahlin? The new Crosby or Doughty. Likely still take McDavid, but you can't go wrong with Dahlin either.

Then you do Eichel and Bouchard? Not even close IMO. What Oilers prospect has lived up to the hype of the fans in the past decade (minus McDavid)? Maybe Draisatl? That's it, and there have been a LOT of hyped guys.

 

[cgf]

You keep saying that but I'm not too sold on that because the scoring was up last season and while that's impressive for an 18 year old d-man, its something that I wont be surprised if more young d-men come to the league and do that.

If Byram makes the Avs this season and scores 40 points, is he the next generational player in the league? I mean it's not too crazy to think he can do it, but its certainly more rare for forwards to come into the league and score 100 points as a rookie.

I only repeated it again because you brought up milestones & achievements

If that happened we'd have to drastically re-assess expectations for Byram and track his further development very closely moving forward...but on its own, no it wouldn't. Not that is would be an analogous situation if Byram blew away all expectations in his draft+1 to produce those #s.

The Dahlin watch started the moment McDavid was drafted and every step of the way he has lived up to or surpassed the insane expectations put on him. Nevermind that Dahlin did it as his team's best player while even if Byram outplayed Makar, Girard & Zadorov to reach those #s, he wouldn't surpass MacK as our best player.

 

[eviohh26]

I hate voting against McDavid. But its not exactly fair to have a future generational Dman vs a yet to play a game full of potential dman. But Mcnuggets.... I voted Oilers. I guess im silly to think Mcdavid has another gear in him.

 

[LuckyBoeser]

I didnt watch alot of Sabres games so I can't really judge Dahlin's defensive game, but he was minus 13 while putting up 40 points. That tells me he was good on offense not so good on defense

+/- is not a good stat. Last season Ryan O'Reilly had -23 on Buffalo so do you think he only good offensively? In both 2017-18 and 2018-19 the highest +/- on the Sabres is +1. That says a lot in term it's Buffalo not Dahlin. It not worth putting stock in +/-...


This graph shows that Dahlin does indeed have a positive impact on shot attempt and xg defensively.


Left chart: is Dahlin impact on the ice
Right chart: is Dahlin off the ice

Buffalo does better at suppressing shots when Dahlin is on the ice. Sabres especially have an issue at clearing the puck in front of the net when Dahlin is not on the ice hence the front net area being very red on his right chart.

As for the Eichel + Dahlin combo winning the poll. McDavid is quite clearly the best player in this deal and always will be. However the gap between Dahlin and Bouchard is far bigger than the gap between McDavid and Eichel. Bouchard may not ever become a 1D. I think he'll become a good nhler because he has the offensive ability and a bomb of a shot to do so. However I don't see much elite upsides and he needs to clean out his positioning and tendency to float in the defense zone.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I hate voting against McDavid. But its not exactly fair to have a future generational Dman vs a yet to play a game full of potential dman. But Mcnuggets.... I voted Oilers. I guess im silly to think Mcdavid has another gear in him.

Not that it makes a world of difference, but Bouchard played 7 games for the Oilers last year.

 

[6ix]

McDavid doesn’t lose many polls, but it’s the Buffalo duo here. Eichel is still a high end #1 C and add in Dahlin it’s a no brainer because Bouchard can’t defend.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

McDavid doesn’t lose many polls, but it’s the Buffalo duo here. Eichel is still a high end #1 C and add in Dahlin it’s a no brainer because Bouchard can’t defend.

you managed to slam an Oilers player in 3 poll thread in a row...congratz

 

[snipes]

I hate voting against McDavid. But its not exactly fair to have a future generational Dman vs a yet to play a game full of potential dman. But Mcnuggets.... I voted Oilers. I guess im silly to think Mcdavid has another gear in him.

Well once McDavid gets actual puck moving D (Bouchard, Jones, etc.) I think he’ll reach another level.

 

[snipes]

I feel like Dahlin is under rated. If he played for a bigger market team, or a team that was decent, he would get the appropriate level of hype. Sabres fans are actually unussually quiet about him after over hyping Eichel and guys like Reinhart / Mittelstadt.

I honestly think it will be a toss up in a few years.. McDavid or Dahlin? The new Crosby or Doughty. Likely still take McDavid, but you can't go wrong with Dahlin either.

Then you do Eichel and Bouchard? Not even close IMO. What Oilers prospect has lived up to the hype of the fans in the past decade (minus McDavid)? Maybe Draisatl? That's it, and there have been a LOT of hyped guys.

Maybe Draisaitl?

50 + 50 seasons are super common apparently.

Maybe Matthews will break 70 points sometime, something Drai has done 3 straight years.

4th times a charm?

 

[eviohh26]

Maybe Draisaitl?

50 + 50 seasons are super common apparently.

Maybe Matthews will break 70 points sometime, something Drai has done 3 straight years.

4th times a charm?

Draisaitl gets an odd amount of disrespect on HF .

 

[snipes]

Draisaitl gets an odd amount of disrespect on HF .

It’s bizarre and irrational.

Like if you take the best teammate away from a lot of players their numbers dip as well.

@Del Preston who is a top 5 HF poster did an analysis on this before if I recall correctly.

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

No wrong answer at this point. However i am voting for buffalo because we at least know what the product is as Bouchard should do just fine but still has a chance to be a bust.

 

[bobholly39]

I feel like Dahlin is under rated. If he played for a bigger market team, or a team that was decent, he would get the appropriate level of hype. Sabres fans are actually unussually quiet about him after over hyping Eichel and guys like Reinhart / Mittelstadt.

I honestly think it will be a toss up in a few years.. McDavid or Dahlin? The new Crosby or Doughty. Likely still take McDavid, but you can't go wrong with Dahlin either.

Then you do Eichel and Bouchard? Not even close IMO. What Oilers prospect has lived up to the hype of the fans in the past decade (minus McDavid)? Maybe Draisatl? That's it, and there have been a LOT of hyped guys.

It was always Crosby before Doughty. Weird comparison. If this is how it shapes out to be than it'll always be McDavid over Dahlin.

I think Dahlin could end up quite a bit better than Doughty. That's his ceiling - doesn't mean he'll reach it, but he'll have to or close to truly rival McDavid.

 

[McVespa99]

McDavid is waaay better than Eichel.
Dahlin will probably be waaay better than Bouchard although I still think Bouchard will put up good numbers.
Taking McDavid and B mostly because I am just not a fan of Eichel.

 

[Quiet Jack]

I didnt watch alot of Sabres games so I can't really judge Dahlin's defensive game, but he was minus 13 while putting up 40 points. That tells me he was good on offense not so good on defense

incredible

 

[snu22fint]

Dahlin had 44 points. Lets be conservative and assume his development alone will net him another 4 points next season which is pretty reasonable I think considering he scored more during his second half last season.
Then add 2 more minutes per game of icetime. That will put him in the 23-24 min per game range. Thats what, like 8 games worth of icetime over a season. So lets assume another 4 points. Then more PP1 time, another 4 points. Last but not least, Buffalo seams like an improved team, not by much I guess, but with higher quality teamates we can at least expect a better +/- and maybe a couple of more points over a season. That would put Dahlin at around 55 points next season.

Remove some of the rookie mistakes and we are looking at a borderline top 10 defenseman by the end of the next season.

I know development isn't linear and that there is a lot ifs for this to become a reallity. But remember that Erik Karlsson absolutely exploded and won the Norris the season after he had a similar season to the one Dahlin just had. I don't expect Dahlin to do the same, but it shows that everything is possible for a defenseman with that kind of talent.

Worst case senario not taking any big injuries into account I think Eichel and Dahlin is top 10 center and top 10 defenseman for at least another 10 years each with a lot more upside on both players.

Hard to pass on McDavid but if there is anything the Oilers have shown is that McDavid alone wont garantee any sort of post season success. A franchise C and D will get you alot closer to the ultimate goal.

 

[ricky0034]

It’s bizarre and irrational.

Like if you take the best teammate away from a lot of players their numbers dip as well.

@Del Preston who is a top 5 HF poster did an analysis on this before if I recall correctly.

and the Oilers aren't exactly a deep team to begin with

like maybe Draisaitls numbers away from McDavid would look a bit better if he had other things like some defensemen to get him the puck? nah he probably just sucks

 

[joe dirte]

40 points in the NHL - even for an 18 year old defenseman - is nowhere near as impressive as some people make it out to be. Doesn't mean Dahlin isn't special - it's just that this metric is truly not.

Many other NHL rookie defenders (not specifically 18 yr olds - but 19 and 20 yr olds yes) since the lockout have exceeded the 40 point mark.

And how many have done it as an 18 year old.... in all of NHL history? If uts not very impressive, surely many have done it?

 

[tony d]

Dahlin and Eichel.