Connor Bedard is -84 throughout two seasons…Worst in the NHL

[surixon]

I guess there are a lot of fans who put player scoring numbers and personal awards ahead of their team winning. Seems strange to me. Because players want their coaches to be fair. And treating a guy “special” wouldn’t be good for the club winning.

Star players get special treatment even on the best teams. Scheifele and Connor are allowed ro extend shifts looking for second and third offensive opportunities whereas no other lines are in the Jets for instance.

Stars always get a much longer leash.

The key with a good coach is to be able to sell the star on doing things off the puck that will lead to winning more games.

I imagine that it will be easier to do with a guy like Bedard when there is enough talent around him where he doesn't feel that he needs to do it all offensively and thus stops cheating for it.

 

[Fatass]

Star players get special treatment even on the best teams. Scheifele and Connor are allowed ro extend shifts looking for second and third offensive opportunities whereas no other lines are in the Jets for instance.

Stars always get a much longer leash.

The key with a good coach is to be able to sell the star on doing things off the puck that will lead to winning more games.

I imagine that it will be easier to do with a guy like Bedard when there is enough talent around him where he doesn't feel that he needs to do it all offensively and thus stops cheating for it.

For sure established star players get more leash to create offensively. But they still will play the game within the structure of the club. Bedard isn’t an established player. What is he learning from this “special” treatment? How are his teammates feeling about Bedard playing so bad defensively and not getting held to account? Seems like this could be bad for the room. Maybe this is why Cory Perry got turfed? Maybe he confronted Bedard and the coaches about the “special” treatment?

 

[surixon]

For sure established star players get more leash to create offensively. But they still will play the game within the structure of the club. Bedard isn’t an established player. What is he learning from this “special” treatment? How are his teammates feeling about Bedard playing so bad defensively and not getting held to account? Seems like this could be bad for the room. Maybe this is why Cory Perry got turfed? Maybe he confronted Bedard and the coaches about the “special” treatment?

He's not learning anything in that environment which is a big problem and why Chicago needs to actually surround him with good players/vets to show him the ropes.

He's predominantly had bad role models like Hall in his career.

I think people put too much emphasis on coaches for this. It's usually the players that hold each other accountable.

 

[Fatass]

He's not learning anything in that environment which is a big problem and why Chicago needs to actually surround him with good players/vets to show him the ropes.

He's predominantly had bad role models like Hall in his career.

I think people put too much emphasis on coaches for this. It's usually the players that hold each other accountable.

The Hawks do have some good veterans. Just look at their captain.

 

[surixon]

The Hawks do have some good veterans. Just look at their captain.

They need a lot more then one or two good bottom 6 vets.

 

[Fatass]

They need a lot more then one or two good bottom 6 vets.

Of course. But how many veteran players does it take to tell Bedard to play defensively responsible?

 

[surixon]

Of course. But how many veteran players does it take to tell Bedard to play defensively responsible?

I think you need to look at it a different way. It's not about being more defensively responsible it's about trying not to do too much offensively. I don't see a player not trying in his end. I see a player trying to do too much with the puck in the nz and ozone which is leading to turn overs and odd man rushes against. He was drafted first over all and seen as the offensive savoir of the team. Think of the pressure he's under to produce on a team that can't score. It's why I say that they need to first bring in talent to help him out and take some of that pressure off of him.

When that happens my guess is his game simplifies and the GA drop

 

[Fatass]

I think you need to look at it a different way. It's not about being more defensively responsible it's about trying not to do too much offensively. I don't see a player not trying in his end. I see a player trying to do too much with the puck in the nz and ozone which is leading to turn overs and odd man rushes against. He was drafted first over all and seen as the offensive savoir of the team. Think of the pressure he's under to produce on a team that can't score. It's why I say that they need to first bring in talent to help him out and take some of that pressure off of him.

When that happens my guess is his game simplifies and the GA drop

When I mention playing defensively responsible that includes in all three zones, with and without the puck.
Who is holding him to account though? It’s definitely not the coach. If it’s expected to come from the veteran players then he’s not listening. Imo he should be playing wing. Far less responsibility.

 

[surixon]

When I mention playing defensively responsible that includes in all three zones, with and without the puck.
Who is holding him to account though? It’s definitely not the coach. If it’s expected to come from the veteran players then he’s not listening. Imo he should be playing wing. Far less responsibility.

Well that's the thing it's not easy to learn to play C on the fly. Even the great defensive savant Celebrini is getting shredded in the GA department.

Also it's not like the other young Blackhawk players or heck even the vets are any better defensively. There just isn't the microscope on them. He's actually mid table on the team in GA/60. So probably hard to hold him accountable when most of the team give up more then him.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Nazar actually looks more impressive than Bedard.

 

[MoneyManny]

Never actually understood how a three-time SC champion team in a post-cap era could end up having no veteran presence at all?

Why did they sell Kane? Wasn’t he ready to share his experience and mentor the kid?

Jumbo Joe teaches Celebrini life and hockey. In San Jose that hasn’t had a Cup at all. And he succeeds, eventually.

Not every star is capable to carry the team on the shoulders and create a winning culture without help. It’s rare. Most players need mentoring.

Seems like a poor management indeed.

Athletes want to win, trading vets away when the team is tanking was probably done as a favor to them.

If they want to mentor they can get in the coaching game after their career is over. People on these boards thinks every player is Mother Theresa.

 

[BrokenFace]

He's not learning anything in that environment which is a big problem and why Chicago needs to actually surround him with good players/vets to show him the ropes.

He's predominantly had bad role models like Hall in his career.

I think people put too much emphasis on coaches for this. It's usually the players that hold each other accountable.

Taylor Hall is a bad role model? A former 1st overall drafted to an organization that had iced terrible teams for years? Yeah what could Bedard learn from a guy like that.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I think you need to look at it a different way. It's not about being more defensively responsible it's about trying not to do too much offensively. I don't see a player not trying in his end. I see a player trying to do too much with the puck in the nz and ozone which is leading to turn overs and odd man rushes against. He was drafted first over all and seen as the offensive savoir of the team. Think of the pressure he's under to produce on a team that can't score. It's why I say that they need to first bring in talent to help him out and take some of that pressure off of him.

When that happens my guess is his game simplifies and the GA drop

This 100%. His defensive zone coverage and backchecking etc still aren't good, but the majority of his defensive woes are a result of him trying to do too much, making high risk low reward plays in the neutral zone and near the offensive blue line.

He really needs to try to use his teammates more through those areas of the ice before he's forced into it. One of the reasons his primary assist ratio is so high is that he doesn't typically like to pass the puck until he's well inside the offensive blue line.

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

Taylor Hall is a bad role model? A former 1st overall drafted to an organization that had iced terrible teams for years? Yeah what could Bedard learn from a guy like that.

A lot of bad habits.

 

[Grifter3511]

For sure established star players get more leash to create offensively. But they still will play the game within the structure of the club. Bedard isn’t an established player. What is he learning from this “special” treatment? How are his teammates feeling about Bedard playing so bad defensively and not getting held to account? Seems like this could be bad for the room. Maybe this is why Cory Perry got turfed? Maybe he confronted Bedard and the coaches about the “special” treatment?

Perry definitely confronted someone about something.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I'd be less concerned about +/- for a young offensive talent, and more concerned about his ability to create chances, get to scoring areas, and play engaged hockey.

The latter is what has most viewers concerned. Teams have adjusted to his game, and he really hasn't adapted at all.

His 5v5 iHCDF/60 has been cut in half, from 3.05 to 1.53. That's a staggering fall off, especially considering the team around him has improved.

Some of the raw all situations numbers are really ugly as well.

Last season (68gp) vs this season (81gp)

He's creating a lot less chances for himself
206 vs 191 shots
69 vs 44 iHDCF
24.0 vs 19.3 ixG

He's drawing less penalties and taking more
25 vs 13 penalties drawn
14 vs 24 minor penalties taken
+11 vs -11 minor penalty differential

He's giving the puck away much more and taking it away much less
57 vs 90 giveaways
47 vs 25 takeaways
-10 vs -65 differential

And he's been much less physical:
54 vs 47 hits given
77 vs 58 hits taken

All these numbers point to a player who has been effectively kept to the perimeter and forced to settle for low probability passes/dekes. He just hasn't been able to penetrate the middle of the ice on a consistent basis, and seems more hesitant to engage physically.

He needs a big offseason in terms of physical development, but also needs to do some searching to figure out what he needs to do to successfully adapt his game.

 

[Bombshell11]

I'd be less concerned about +/- for a young offensive talent, and more concerned about his ability to create chances, get to scoring areas, and play engaged hockey.

The latter is what has most viewers concerned. Teams have adjusted to his game, and he really hasn't adapted at all.

His 5v5 iHCDF/60 has been cut in half, from 3.05 to 1.53. That's a staggering fall off, especially considering the team around him has improved.

Some of the raw all situations numbers are really ugly as well.

Last season (68gp) vs this season (81gp)

He's creating a lot less chances for himself
206 vs 191 shots
69 vs 44 iHDCF
24.0 vs 19.3 ixG

He's drawing less penalties and taking more
25 vs 13 penalties drawn
14 vs 24 minor penalties taken
+11 vs -11 minor penalty differential

He's giving the puck away much more and taking it away much less
57 vs 90 giveaways
47 vs 25 takeaways
-10 vs -65 differential

And he's been much less physical:
54 vs 47 hits given
77 vs 58 hits taken

All these numbers point to a player who has been effectively kept to the perimeter and forced to settle for low probability passes/dekes. He just hasn't been able to penetrate the middle of the ice on a consistent basis, and seems more hesitant to engage physically.

He needs a big offseason in terms of physical development, but also needs to do some searching to figure out what he needs to do to successfully adapt his game.

Looks like a guy who's burned out and demotivated

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Looks like a guy who's burned out and demotivated

I don't think he's demotivated, but it's been a tough year for him. Could definitely use a recharge.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Alexandre Daigle 2?

 

[Connor McConnor]

There was a poll after he got drafted, that asked whether you’d take Bedard with his friendly contract over McDavid moving forward. McDavid won that poll, but the consensus was that by year 5, Bedard would be out scoring a 31 year old McDavid. Bedard has plenty of time to figure out, but the hype was out of control.

I've been saying it since his draft. The hype on this kid was completely out of control and unjustified. You had a lot of prominent posters on here saying he'd be a 80+ point in Y1 and 100 by Y2-3.

For comparison sake, McDavid was a +26 by the end of his 2nd season on a horribly built Edmonton roster. Drai doesn't make up +100 lmao

 

[Turin]

I'd be less concerned about +/- for a young offensive talent, and more concerned about his ability to create chances, get to scoring areas, and play engaged hockey.

The latter is what has most viewers concerned. Teams have adjusted to his game, and he really hasn't adapted at all.

His 5v5 iHCDF/60 has been cut in half, from 3.05 to 1.53. That's a staggering fall off, especially considering the team around him has improved.

Some of the raw all situations numbers are really ugly as well.

Last season (68gp) vs this season (81gp)

He's creating a lot less chances for himself
206 vs 191 shots
69 vs 44 iHDCF
24.0 vs 19.3 ixG

He's drawing less penalties and taking more
25 vs 13 penalties drawn
14 vs 24 minor penalties taken
+11 vs -11 minor penalty differential

He's giving the puck away much more and taking it away much less
57 vs 90 giveaways
47 vs 25 takeaways
-10 vs -65 differential

And he's been much less physical:
54 vs 47 hits given
77 vs 58 hits taken

All these numbers point to a player who has been effectively kept to the perimeter and forced to settle for low probability passes/dekes. He just hasn't been able to penetrate the middle of the ice on a consistent basis, and seems more hesitant to engage physically.

He needs a big offseason in terms of physical development, but also needs to do some searching to figure out what he needs to do to successfully adapt his game.

Doesn't help that they haven't gotten a real established coach in there still.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I've been saying it since his draft. The hype on this kid was completely out of control and unjustified. You had a lot of prominent posters on here saying he'd be a 80+ point in Y1 and 100 by Y2-3.

For comparison sake, McDavid was a +26 by the end of his 2nd season on a horribly built Edmonton roster. Drai doesn't make up +100 lmao

To be fair, he wasn't that far off from an 80 point player as a rookie, I think I projected him at 78 points. But the expectation that he'd be anywhere near Crosby or McDavid was always unrealistic.

I thought he'd build on last year. I don't know many who expected this sort of regression, and the lack of goal scoring is especially notable.

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

When I’ve tuned into hawks games this year I see him making a lot of junior plays trying to deke defenders out too often, Mcdavid was guilty of it early too but mcdavids skating made it work more often than bedard

 

[JimmyH]

Because he's extremely reckless with the puck and doesn't play his position properly in his own zone.

Well he's pretty good on D if you look at the plays. Also caused a turnover which led to a gwg tonight. I'm not sure what you're seeing but it might be his stats.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

As a Hawk fan I look at it positively that he is not far off Kane's production at this point in his career despite playing on far worse teams than Kane and is still only 19

Thru first 149 games of career

Kane = 45 goals + 91 assists for 136 pts
Bedard = 45 goals + 83 assists for 128 pts

Also see shades of Kane in him

Next year will probably be pivotal IMO for if he has future at C (Needs to show improvement in several areas) or if he should be moved to W in future