Connor Bedard is -84 throughout two seasons…Worst in the NHL

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He will be just fine. But he's not generational. He will eventually be a 100 point guy

I think he still has that potential, but if league wide scoring starts drying up again, he might be closer to a PPG+ kinda guy.

Should be a top 10-20 scorer each year though as he matures. Hopefully that comes with improved all around game and better decision making.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

I don't get it. I read eveywhere that the Hawks have a phenomenal young core of amazing defensemen; that Vlasic/Del Mastro/ Kaiser/ Allan/ Levshunov are so good. Why do they keep losing all their games and bleeding GA then?

Because they're younger than the defense core of Wester Michigan University.
Give them time.

Levshunov has only played 50 games in the AHL and 15 in the NHL.
Rinzel has played 0 games in the AHL and 6 in the NHL.
etc.

They have the potential to be a great D-core. Nobody is saying they're there yet.

 

[Czechboy]

I think he still has that potential, but if league wide scoring starts drying up again, he might be closer to a PPG+ kinda guy.

Should be a top 10-20 scorer each year though as he matures. Hopefully that comes with improved all around game and better decision making.

I have him top 10 for a nice decade. Probably starting in 2 years.

He will improve because he's a pissy little honey badger.

The team will improve because they can't suck forever and their fans will riot.

He won't win a selke though but put him with a 200 foot guy who does the dirty work and he will be killing it as a 22 year old.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Because they're younger than the defense core of Wester Michigan University.
Give them time.

Levshunov has only played 50 games in the AHL and 15 in the NHL.
Rinzel has played 0 games in the AHL and 6 in the NHL.
etc.

They have the potential to be a great D-core. Nobody is saying they're there yet.

Lev and Rinzel haven't played much sure. Kaiser, Vlasic, Del Mastro, Allan have had major roles on the team this year. This just means that they suck then? Sure they could be good in the future. But they suck now in the NHL.

Detroit once Raymond and Seider got on the roster finished well out of the basement. And everyone is constantly telling us we have zero chance of ever being good. Chicago has Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Seth Jones (prior to the trade), Taylor Hall (prior to the trade)...these are decent depth pieces that shouldn't result in a basement team if the kids are any good. Detroit with the same level of depth (also Bertuzzi, Perron, Compher, Copp...arguably worse depth TBH) and with Larkin who isn't some sort of superstar, finished 8th from last in 21-22, because of Raymond and Seider's play. You've got Bedard who's supposed to be a superstar and all these supposed fantastic young dmen and they're still horrible.

Chicago is a lot of dreaming and hoping with very little actual success from the players they have drafted.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Lev and Rinzel haven't played much sure. Kaiser, Vlasic, Del Mastro, Allan have had major roles on the team this year. This just means that they suck then? Sure they could be good in the future. But they suck now in the NHL.

Detroit once Raymond and Seider got on the roster finished well out of the basement. And everyone is constantly telling us we have zero chance of ever being good. Chicago has Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Seth Jones (prior to the trade), Taylor Hall (prior to the trade)...these are decent depth pieces that shouldn't result in a basement team if the kids are any good. Detroit with the same level of depth (also Bertuzzi, Perron, Compher, Copp...arguably worse depth TBH) finished 8th from last in 21-22, becasue of Raymond and Seider's play. You've got Bedard who's supposed to be a superstar and all these supposed fantastic young dmen and they're still horrible.

Chicago is a lot of dreaming and hoping with very little actual success from the players they have drafted.

Imagine thinking Vlasic sucks lol

 

[RedHawkDown]

Imagine thinking Vlasic sucks lol

If he doesn't, why are they still so terrible when they had a D core of Vlasic/Jones/Martinez/Murphy/Allan to start this season? All Detroit had 2 years ago was Seider and an underperforming Hronek, and then far worse depth in Marc Staal/Leddy/Lindstrom/DeKeyser. Yet we still had a way better season.

Maybe he isn't nearly as good as you think he is? From an outsider's perspective, Vlasic looks to be a solid #3 or #4 and the rest of the young dmen are bottom pairing level.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

If he doesn't, why are they still so terrible when they had a D core of Vlasic/Jones/Martinez/Murphy/Allan to start this season? All Detroit had 2 years ago was Seider and an underperforming Hronek, and then far worse depth in Marc Staal/Leddy/Lindstrom/DeKeyser. Yet we still had a way better season.

Maybe he isn't nearly as good as you think he is?

Watch a game dude.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Watch a game dude.

I have. Chicago gets caved in every night and he seems to be part of it, though he's not as bad as the rest of them. Like I said, a decent 3/4 but not some cornerstone piece.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Lev and Rinzel haven't played much sure. Kaiser, Vlasic, Del Mastro, Allan have had major roles on the team this year. This just means that they suck then? Sure they could be good in the future. But they suck now in the NHL.

Detroit once Raymond and Seider got on the roster finished well out of the basement. And everyone is constantly telling us we have zero chance of ever being good. Chicago has Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Seth Jones (prior to the trade), Taylor Hall (prior to the trade)...these are decent depth pieces that shouldn't result in a basement team if the kids are any good. Detroit with the same level of depth (also Bertuzzi, Perron, Compher, Copp...arguably worse depth TBH) and with Larkin who isn't some sort of superstar, finished 8th from last in 21-22, because of Raymond and Seider's play. You've got Bedard who's supposed to be a superstar and all these supposed fantastic young dmen and they're still horrible.

Chicago is a lot of dreaming and hoping with very little actual success from the players they have drafted.

Better to suck for another year or two and have hope than improve by 30 points and get stuck in mediocrity.

 

[DJJones]

I think its funny that the Sharks out tanked them while at the same time giving Celebrini some actual skill to play with.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I have. Chicago gets caved in every night and he seems to be part of it, though he's not as bad as the rest of them. Like I said, a decent 3/4 but not some cornerstone piece.

You're absolutely blind if you think he's a decent 3/4, sorry... he's a visibly dominant defenseman on an island. He played like a all situations #1 before the coaching change. He hasn't been as good in the 2nd as he became increasingly relied on offensively, but he's still very easily a top pairing dman.

He's absolutely a cornerstone piece.

 

[acor]

When someone leads the league in minus, I'd guess he might be a quite decent player, playing long heavy minutes on a crappy team.

So, he's probably not bad at all, but he was supposed to be generational, and so far he's not.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Will he be as good as jack hughes?

 

[Blue and Green]

I have. Chicago gets caved in every night and he seems to be part of it, though he's not as bad as the rest of them. Like I said, a decent 3/4 but not some cornerstone piece.

Vlasic is a legitimate shutdown defenceman. His contract is an incredible bargain for Chicago.

 

[Kegs]

Because he’s on a horrific team with sieve goal tending and he’s on the ice the most of forwards

His play away from the puck leaves a lot to be desired to be honest.

 

[Stephen]

I could see Connor Bedard hitting a Jack Hughes superstar curve, a little delayed. But I think he might be stuck with an underachiever tag alongside Celebrini’s overachiever tag. That’s how I see it unfolding.

Kind of odd that his speed and skating has become a question mark. Thought he was a speed demon back in juniors with his big rushes punctuated by big shot rips. In the NHL he just looks so underpowered.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Vlasic is a legitimate shutdown defenceman. His contract is an incredible bargain for Chicago.

Both the on-ice outcomes and the advanced stats do not support this argument whatsoever. CF% of 42, GF% of 41, rel CF/60 -4.32. Seider has a CF% of 50 and GF% of 52, rel CF/60 of 3.21 and plenty of people here like to talk about how much he's regressed since his rookie season. A negative relative Corsi for a defensive defenseman is embarassing.

Pure cope.

 

[Edmonton East]

Jack is an elite puck transporter, which is exactly what high end NHL centers need to be able to do. There's a reason his possession numbers are so consistently excellent despite his faceoff numbers.

If only he could stay healthy.

Note: Nowhere did I say Jack is a bad player. All I said was he needs to round out his C game, which includes actually being serviceable at the dot. But if you wanna play this game, if Jack is so utterly incredible at "transporting" the puck, why hasn't he made any of his linemates materially better for 2 years now? From Meier to Bratt to Palat to Toffoli to Mercer. Even more alarming, most of these guys played and play much better with Hischier. Which is even more alrmingerrrr when you factor in Nico's line gets the toughest deployments of any top 6 line in the leauge....while Jack's of course gets the easiest (especially this season).

Oooohhh yippee you are great at zone entries and carrying the puck (yes, he's elite at this)....which is then partially negated by you falling down 50 times (+ turnovers) and hogging the puck on the perimeter in the ozone before forcing a pass through 20 legs and sticks. Jack is a good player, but he's still drastically overrated by many based on his draft hype and 1 great season over 2 years ago. His game hasn't progressed at all since. If anything, he has gone backwards. NOT SAYING HE SUCKS, but the Devs were playing at a 75point pace from Christmas to Jack Hughes injury for 3 months. He was relatively bad at the 4 Nations as well at W, but whatever.

So as was very clearly my point in my original post: points are great, but there is much more needed to become an elite 1C in the NHL on a good team. It's frustrating Jack is nearly 24 and hasn't rounded out his game at all the past 2 years. But Bedard isn't even 20 yet so he has time to figure it out.

 

[Blue and Green]

Both the on-ice outcomes and the advanced stats do not support this argument whatsoever. CF% of 42, GF% of 41, rel CF/60 -4.32. Seider has a CF% of 50 and GF% of 52, rel CF/60 of 3.21 and plenty of people here like to talk about how much he's regressed since his rookie season. A negative relative Corsi for a defensive defenseman is embarassing.

Pure cope.

Vlasic played really well last season and the first couple of months this season. Since the trade of Jones he has next to nothing in terms of support and is being asked to do a little more than he is capable of doing for a terrible team. I would love to have him and his contract on my team.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Note: Nowhere did I say Jack is a bad player. All I said was he needs to round out his C game, which includes actually being serviceable at the dot. But if you wanna play this game, if Jack is so utterly incredible at "transporting" the puck, why hasn't he made any of his linemates materially better for 2 years now? From Meier to Bratt to Palat to Toffoli to Mercer. Even more alarming, most of these guys played and play much better with Hischier. Which is even more alrmingerrrr when you factor in Nico's line gets the toughest deployments of any top 6 line in the leauge....while Jack's of course gets the easiest (especially this season).

Oooohhh yippee you are great at zone entries and carrying the puck (yes, he's elite at this)....which is then partially negated by you falling down 50 times (+ turnovers) and hogging the puck on the perimeter in the ozone before forcing a pass through 20 legs and sticks. Jack is a good player, but he's still drastically overrated by many based on his draft hype and 1 great season over 2 years ago. His game hasn't progressed at all since. If anything, he has gone backwards. NOT SAYING HE SUCKS, but the Devs were playing at a 75point pace from Christmas to Jack Hughes injury for 3 months. He was relatively bad at the 4 Nations as well at W, but whatever.

So as was very clearly my point in my original post: points are great, but there is much more needed to become an elite 1C in the NHL on a good team. It's frustrating Jack is nearly 24 and hasn't rounded out his game at all the past 2 years. But Bedard isn't even 20 yet so he has time to figure it out.

You said "The only thing he does that a high end NHL C does is produce points." and I showed you how that's not at all the case.

 

[MuckOG]

With Bedard, it seems to be a combination of him playing on a really bad team and being overhyped at the outset. He's not the generational player that many proclaimed him to be, but should still turn into a pretty damn good player.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Will he be as good as jack hughes?

That‘s the same question I have in my mind.

Right now he seems like he‘s sulking a lot. Needs to shake that off. And put on a bit of muscle in the off season, if he can.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Both the on-ice outcomes and the advanced stats do not support this argument whatsoever. CF% of 42, GF% of 41, rel CF/60 -4.32. Seider has a CF% of 50 and GF% of 52, rel CF/60 of 3.21 and plenty of people here like to talk about how much he's regressed since his rookie season. A negative relative Corsi for a defensive defenseman is embarassing.

Pure cope.

This is gonna age well. You're absolutely clueless about this player, you just sound like an insecure red wings fan who can't stand other teams having great young dmen.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Will he be as good as jack hughes?

I would be surprised if he was ever as good as a healthy Jack Hughes.

 

[RedHawkDown]

This is gonna age well. You're absolutely clueless about this player, you just sound like an insecure red wings fan who can't stand other teams having great young dmen.

Is there any rebuttal to what I said?

Lots of teams have amazing young d men. Hutson is phenomenal and the next Hughes/Makar. Sanderson in Ottawa is fantastic. I could go on, I have zero issue acknowledging the phenomenal talent across the league. Vlasic, however , like all the other Chicago players, isn’t at all what he’s being sold as.