Connor Bedard is -84 throughout two seasons…Worst in the NHL

[ORRFForever]

Ovechkin had two almost identical seasons with a +/- differential of around 60. It's meaningless.

Put Bedard on a good team and he's a positive. Put him on a gongshow and he's a negative. It's a useless stat.

I don't want to argue with you but I disagree. Again, not meaningless but given too much importance.

 

[Mike C]

He's not really playing to his strengths, I would reserve marginal for 4th liners, but solid is fine.

Right now the kid is overrated and I would say below average.

Trust me, as a NYI fan, I see plenty of marginal and below average hockey!

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Right now the kid is overrated and I would say below average.

Trust me, as a NYI fan, I see plenty of marginal and below average hockey!

He's better than at least half the Isles roster, being generous, but go on.

 

[SanderSen]

Total bum, straight up trade to Ottawa for Guadette

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't want to argue with you but I disagree. Again, not meaningless but given too much importance.

How can a stat have meaning when you have a player with identical seasons but a 50 point difference from one year to the next?

 

[Mike C]

He's better than at least half the Isles roster, being generous, but go on.

Bedard has plenty of talent. Needs to meld that into becoming a good player. Not saying he won't but compared to his draft status, I'm underwhelmed for now

He's only 19 and has some maturing to do. I'm not saying he's a bust but I'll reserve the word "great" for guys that produce a little more

I'll concede he has great potential. I'll keep the jury out for now

 

[LuGBuG]

Carlsson is more refined and while Anaheim isn't good, they are atleast not trying to force kids into being a day 1 savior. If any of these kids are just thrown out there 20 minutes a night and not held accountable then I disagree it would be much better. At best subtract some goals for and against but the overall impact would still be pain.

Celebrini is a pretty mature player for his age and he's a -30, we don't fear for him longterm as an all around guy do we?

Chicago needs people in the right places to properly work with the kid, he's left too much to figure things out on his own. He'll never be Toews in his own end but he'll continue to grow

Because Celebrini is a rookie and Bedard is washed up

 

[ozzie]

Can't teach size and he is much smaller than advertised. I sitll think people went off the rails after his WJC performance against a tournament without Russia and an overall weak showing all around. His shot was his selling point, turns out he was just ahead of the curve against junior level goalies. Reminds me of Tavares who peaked early and set unrealisitic expectations he could never reasonable meet.

Chicago is a bad team, he'd be a fantastic piece in the right situation as a scorer. I'm just not convinced he a is a driver, at least not yet. Nt the type of player to build and lead your team out of the basement.

 

[AzHawk]

Bedard is -40 worse than the 10th worst rated player in the last 2 years. It's historically bad.

What made you compare him to the 10th worst? I'm curious what that illustrates.

(It's also not a historically large margin. I looked at two mid 70s examples and that same gap spanning the '73/'74 seasons is wider.)

 

[Bombshell11]

Because he’s on a horrific team with sieve goal tending and he’s on the ice the most of forwards

If you’re McDavid on the ice, normally your goalie is getting some free rest time

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What made you compare him to the 10th worst? I'm curious what that illustrates.

Just to show how far off he is.

(It's also not a historically large margin. I looked at two mid 70s examples and that same gap spanning the '73/'74 seasons is wider.)

The fact that you have to go back 50+ years to expansion tells me it's absolutely historic.

 

[nbwingsfan]

How can a stat have meaning when you have a player with identical seasons but a 50 point difference from one year to the next?

I always like to point to Jeff Shultz leading the entire NHL in +/- to being a part time NHLer two seasons later, to out of the. NHL entirely after that. In his prime.

It’s a useless stat almost entirely dependant on the team and situation you play in.

 

[nbwingsfan]

If you’re McDavid on the ice, normally your goalie is getting some free rest time

Bergeron was a team worst -28 his 21yo season. Do you think he sucked defensively then too?

 

[AzHawk]

Just to show how far off he is.

The fact that you have to go back 50+ years to expansion tells me it's absolutely historic.

I'm not sure one does have to go back that far, it's simply where I started (and stopped).

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Bergeron was a team worst -28 his 21yo season. Do you think he sucked defensively then too?

Wait, are you trying to argue that Bedard isn't terrible defensively?

That's almost as comical as you trying to convince me that he was on the same level as Crosby and McDavid as a prospect because he scored a lot of points, ignoring his glaringly obvious physical/athletic limitations.

 

[Bombshell11]

How can a stat have meaning when you have a player with identical seasons but a 50 point difference from one year to the next?

Here you say +/- is meaningless, how so? Its a stat that is used to give a context.
At the extreme any stat with no context can be seen as useless.

Bedard is bad defensively, hes often lazy, skates heavy, late on a defensive play, does not back check very hard.

His desire to win and be the best is missing from his game. Hes so soft with his stick and has no aggressiveness. <—— this is the main cause of his bad +/-

Koivu, Subban they fought every game, they were on the ice giving it all. Usually players like these are a net positive to their teams and no one is wondering if they should be playing with different teammates every game. Koivu specially played on worst teams than Bedard.

Theres no excuses for Bedard, he was overhyped, overrated and totally miss managed by the nhl.

 

[Bombshell11]

Bergeron was a team worst -28 his 21yo season. Do you think he sucked defensively then too?

I never watch bruins games, you gotta ask someone else

 

[nbwingsfan]

Wait, are you trying to argue that Bedard isn't terrible defensively?

That's almost as comical as you trying to convince me that he was on the same level as Crosby and McDavid as a prospect because he scored a lot of points, ignoring his glaringly obvious physical/athletic limitations.

He’s not good, but acting like he’s the worst in the league and continuously pointing to +/- as the reason why is nothing but hilarious

 

[AzHawk]

The fact that you have to go back 50+ years to expansion tells me it's absolutely historic.

Out of sheer curiosity at this point, I checked again going backwards from now. 1980-81 to 1981-82 seems to be the last time that big of a margin was hit. Dave Christian had -95 across the two seasons; Paul Gagne sat at 10th worst with -53.

 

[Bombshell11]

He’s not good, but acting like he’s the worst in the league and continuously pointing to +/- as the reason why is nothing but hilarious

Hes an orange practice cone for NHL players

 

[dirtydanglez]

rookie/sophomore getting lots of ice time on arguably the worst team in the nhl. he has the pleasure of joining the rebuild at the very beginning.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Here you say +/- is meaningless, how so? Its a stat that is used to give a context.
At the extreme any stat with no context can be seen as useless.

Bedard is bad defensively, hes often lazy, skates heavy, late on a defensive play, does not back check very hard.

His desire to win and be the best is missing from his game. Hes so soft with his stick and has no aggressiveness. <—— this is the main cause of his bad +/-

Koivu, Subban they fought every game, they were on the ice giving it all. Usually players like these are a net positive to their teams and no one is wondering if they should be playing with different teammates every game. Koivu specially played on worst teams than Bedard.

Theres no excuses for Bedard, he was overhyped, overrated and totally miss managed by the nhl.

It doesn’t tell you anything about the player. There are too many variables and fluctuations with it. You’re not going to glean anything useful from it.

 

[surixon]

Bedard needs some veteran guidance and some talent around him. The kid is trying to do far too much on the ice and that is what is causing most of his issues.

When he's playing more of a direct game the chances and offense are there. When he's over handling the puck hes killing plays and turning the puck over in bad spots.

It's really all about him simplifying and using his talent more efficiently and imo that happens quicker with players around him he trusts.

 

[Colezuki]

the +/- stat is irrelevant to me, the blackhawks have been garbage since Bedard got there and if there always losing guess who goes out to shoot on empty nets. not suggesting that he's going to be suzuki or even good defensively but his +/- finally flipped this year when the team start winning

 

[Chelios]

One of the biggest flaws for +/- is that it counts goals scored in empty net situations. Bad teams pull their goalie more often than good teams, and good offensive players on bad teams will get the majority of 6v5 ice time and thus get tagged with the majority of the minuses that come with a GA in these situations (which I think we'll all agree is not reflective of their defensive play one way or the other). Bedard has been on the ice for 33 empty net goals against over the past two seasons, and has only been on the ice for 1 empty net goal for (that is, on the ice for a goal that Chicago has scored into an empty net) for a net -32 that makes his total +/- a lot worse than it probably should be.

I am glad someone looked this up. I knew it was a lot, but this is pretty crazy.

Not that I expect many people to be paying too much attention to this atrocious team, but the Hawks, especially under Richardson, were actually weirdly in almost all games. They were within one goal in the 3rd period for almost every game for the first 2/3 of the season, and as a result had a ton of empty net goals scored against them.