blundluntman
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- Jul 30, 2016
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Conn Smythe Tournament (Post 2000's) Round 1: 2004 Richards vs 2014 Williams
- Thread starter blundluntman
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DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
Richards. Not really close. He played a bigger role and was clutch as well.
Brad Richards had 7 game winning goals. That's the all-time record for a playoff run,.
He also had 3 game winning assists, for 10 total game winning points (also a record, but tied with Gretzky)
I think Williams is one of the weakest conn smythes listed in comparison
He also had 3 game winning assists, for 10 total game winning points (also a record, but tied with Gretzky)
I think Williams is one of the weakest conn smythes listed in comparison
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
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I dont think the gap between these two is really that big. Both essentially won it for being ‘clutch’ and the actual production isnt far off.
That said, the truth is that Doughty deserved it more than Williams. So even though Williams had a great run, I cant really vote for him knowing another King ought to be listed here.
13 Kane vs 18 Ovechkin is gonna be interesting in that regard, cause neither guy really deserved it most on their team
That said, the truth is that Doughty deserved it more than Williams. So even though Williams had a great run, I cant really vote for him knowing another King ought to be listed here.
13 Kane vs 18 Ovechkin is gonna be interesting in that regard, cause neither guy really deserved it most on their team
Obviously you can vote however you like - but I personally don't think a player deserving it vs not in a given year should be given much weight in the poll here. You should just judge each run against one another.I dont think the gap between these two is really that big. Both essentially won it for being ‘clutch’ and the actual production isnt far off.
That said, the truth is that Doughty deserved it more than Williams. So even though Williams had a great run, I cant really vote for him knowing another King ought to be listed here.
13 Kane vs 18 Ovechkin is gonna be interesting in that regard, cause neither guy really deserved it most on their team
I think Ovechkin's run is definitely better than Kane's, for example.
In the first poll, even though I did vote Roy I did strongly consider Vasi, and I think Kucherov should have won above him that year.
DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
I dont think the gap between these two is really that big. Both essentially won it for being ‘clutch’ and the actual production isnt far off.
That said, the truth is that Doughty deserved it more than Williams. So even though Williams had a great run, I cant really vote for him knowing another King ought to be listed here.
13 Kane vs 18 Ovechkin is gonna be interesting in that regard, cause neither guy really deserved it most on their team
Richards was basically their top centre in that '04 run. Lecavalier was the bigger name, but Richards averaged almost four more minutes per game and had more ES points and overall goals and points.
I think winning a Conn Smythe as a 1C while being clutch is definitely better than winning a Smythe for being a complementary winger who comes up big in seventh games.
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Voight
#winning
I dont think the gap between these two is really that big. Both essentially won it for being ‘clutch’ and the actual production isnt far off.
That said, the truth is that Doughty deserved it more than Williams. So even though Williams had a great run, I cant really vote for him knowing another King ought to be listed here.
13 Kane vs 18 Ovechkin is gonna be interesting in that regard, cause neither guy really deserved it most on their team
Williams won it as a lifetime achievement award for being "Mr Game 7"
Kopitar, Doughty, Carter and Gaborik all would've been just as deserving if not more.
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
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Kopitar was arguably on track to win it until the WCF, when his line hit a brick wall in the Toews line and his production went off a cliff. After that, there were a bunch of options.
I think Williams was great that playoff run, I just think Doughty was better
2014 Kings was a lot like the 2012 Kings, 2016 Pens, 2019 Blues and 2023 Knights. There were so many weapons on the team that there was no super clear Conn Smythe Winner. I selected Richards.
JackSlater
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Raccoon Jesus
Draft em but don't play em
Doughty was a VERY clear winner, the voters blew it on narrative, sealed once Williams scored in OT game 1. It was lazy.
2004 Richards, no contest.
Voight
#winning
Williams had the “Mr Game 7” narrative going for him that year, but Doughty and Kopitar were both clearly more impactful players
Sam de Mtl
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Williams biggest contribution was taking Koivu out of the series in the first round when everything was going great for the Habs. Almost took Koivu's eye out. I don't think he was even suspended for it.
I hated Williams for many years after that.
Edit: woops, not the right year. He did that when he won with the Canes. In 06 or smtg like that.
I hated Williams for many years after that.
Edit: woops, not the right year. He did that when he won with the Canes. In 06 or smtg like that.
I think one thing to remember is that ‘04 playoffs were ridiculously low scoring. The average GPG was 2.20. And the Bolts averaged 2.61 GPG. Richards’ 26 points were on only 60 goals the team scored or 43.3%. While 13-14 was also a low scoring era, league average scoring in the playoffs was 2.80 and the Kings were at 3.38. They had 88 goals that playoffs so Williams was in on only 28.4% of them.
It wasn't just a "game 7 narrative". Williams did a few important things that playoff run that set him apart and really made him key to LA's victory.
SJ: Down 3-0 in round 1 to SJ - Wlliams was the one with the huge game 4 and 2 goals, to give them a chance at a comeback. Better game than either Kopitar/Doughty
Williams also had 4 points in games 6 and 7, and game winner in game 6 (Kopitar also great here, game winner game 7 and 5 points in those 2 games)
Anaheim: Williams/Kopitar 3 points each across games 6 and 7 vs Anaheim, both wins
Chicago: Williams with 2 points in game 7, Kopitar 1, Doughty 0
Finals: Doughty 2 points in 5 games -3, Kopitar 2 points in 5 games, Williams 7 points in 5 games
He really stood out at key moments, and had the much better finals than either Doughty or Kopitar.
I think what sealed it for him is his finals performance - or Doughty/Kopitar's lackluster finals in comparison.
I stand by what I said earlier in this thread, I think Williams is one of the weaker Smyhte runs this century, but I still don't think he was necessarily the wrong choice to win.
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
It was Doughty's trophy until his performance in the SCF. Brutal turnover leading to a breakaway goal against in Game 1 was cancelled out by his brilliant goal in the 2nd period.
He didn't have anything to cancel out getting walked by Brian Boyle with under 30 seconds left in the second period of a tied Game 5. Just some mistakes that are visible to even a casual fan and he didn't out up the points in the final to overcome them while Williams kept scoring, including the Game 1 winner as you mentioned.
Doughty averaged 28:45 minutes a night v. Williams 16:49. That's pretty insane. The Mr. Game 7 narrative took over on a team that had to win three Game 7s just to make the final. Gaborik was super clutch as well though.
When there are several good choices, the best storyline wins out.
