Conn Smythe Tournament (1977-00) Round 1: 1991 Lemieux vs 1981 Goring

[blundluntman]

MATCHUP #8 (Round 1): Mario Lemeiux (1991) vs Butch Goring (1981)

Mario Lemieux (1990-91):
23 GP 16 G 28 A 44 Points

Butch Goring (1980-81):
18 GP 10 G 10 A 20 Points

Round 1 Matchups:
Stevens 00 vs Leetch 94 Thread
Nieuwendyk 99 vs Roy 86 Thread
Yzerman 98 vs Gainey 79 Thread
Vernon 97 vs Gretzky 88 Thread
Sakic 96 vs Bossy 82 Thread
C Lemeiux 95 vs Lemieux 92 Thread
Roy 93 vs Smith 83 Thread
Lemieux 91 vs Goring 81
Ranford 90 vs Hextall 87
MacInnis 89 vs Robinson 78
Gretzky 85 vs Messier 84
Trottier 80 vs Lafleur 77

Click to read more...

 

[bobholly39]

Can anyone shed some light on why Butch Goring won? It's not a run I'm particularly familiar with. But:

Mike Bossy - 35 points, 17 goals, 3 GWG +14
Brian Trottier - 29 points, 11 goals, 1 GWG +18
Denis Potvin - 25 points, 8 goals, 2 GWG, +18
vs
Goring - 20 points, 10 goals, 2 GWG, +6

It seems that he has 3 teammates who were very clearly better than him these playoffs. Why did he win? What was the rationale or thought process? Nothing really jumps out looking at stats, except that he was clearly behind all 3.

Either way - this is obviously Lemieux.

 

[amnesiac]

should be a shutout

 

[tabness]

Very unfortunate for Butch Goring to be dealt this matchup lol, kinda like Vernon where a guy who already gets chirped after the fact gotta deal with maybe the winner of the poll.

Goring not only won the Conn Smythe, he won the Sport Magazine MVP of the finals, Unlike say Roy's 1986 where you had a player on the opposing team kinda throw shade on the win, the North Stars couldn't help but heap praise on Goring.

Once again a case of running up scores in earlier series where the other team is outmatched paints a drastically different picture after the fact when stats and player reputation is all that remains. Happens today too.

Pointing what I said before about Goring

1981 Conn Smythe: Bossy vs Potvin

Butch Goring winning the 1981 Conn Smythe is arguably the most controversial Conn Smythe selection in the expansion era. It wasn't just that, in a vacuum, it ranked low among CS winning postseasons, but there were also teammates who had a much better case. For example, Crosby's 2016 CS is on the...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[DitchMarner]

Can anyone shed some light on why Butch Goring won? It's not a run I'm particularly familiar with. But:

Mike Bossy - 35 points, 17 goals, 3 GWG +14
Brian Trottier - 29 points, 11 goals, 1 GWG +18
Denis Potvin - 25 points, 8 goals, 2 GWG, +18
vs
Goring - 20 points, 10 goals, 2 GWG, +6

It seems that he has 3 teammates who were very clearly better than him these playoffs. Why did he win? What was the rationale or thought process? Nothing really jumps out looking at stats, except that he was clearly behind all 3.

Either way - this is obviously Lemieux.

Why Did Butch Goring Win The Conn Smythe In 1981?

He was the fourth-leading scorer on his own team and each of Bossy, Trottier and Potvin had a much better plus/minus rating. I'm sure Trottier played harder minutes and find it hard to believe Goring played better two-way hockey. What was the rationale for giving him the Smythe? Did he get it...

forums.hfboards.com

Strong SCF showing basically. He had a hattrick in Game Three and two goals in Game Five.

 

[bobholly39]

Why Did Butch Goring Win The Conn Smythe In 1981?

He was the fourth-leading scorer on his own team and each of Bossy, Trottier and Potvin had a much better plus/minus rating. I'm sure Trottier played harder minutes and find it hard to believe Goring played better two-way hockey. What was the rationale for giving him the Smythe? Did he get it...

forums.hfboards.com

Strong SCF showing basically. He had a hattrick in Game Three and two goals in Game Five.

Still had less points than Bossy in finals. 8 points to 7

Finals:

Bossy 8 points (4 goals)
Goring 7 points (5 goals)
Trottier 7 points (2 goals)
Potvin 6 points (2 goals)

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lemieux went goat. So him

 

[JackSlater]

Massive edge to Lemieux, one of the very best playoff runs ever.

 

[Staniowski]

Can anyone shed some light on why Butch Goring won? It's not a run I'm particularly familiar with. But:

Mike Bossy - 35 points, 17 goals, 3 GWG +14
Brian Trottier - 29 points, 11 goals, 1 GWG +18
Denis Potvin - 25 points, 8 goals, 2 GWG, +18
vs
Goring - 20 points, 10 goals, 2 GWG, +6

It seems that he has 3 teammates who were very clearly better than him these playoffs. Why did he win? What was the rationale or thought process? Nothing really jumps out looking at stats, except that he was clearly behind all 3.

Either way - this is obviously Lemieux.

Most people who watched the '81 playoffs expected Goring to win. In addition to his five goals in the finals, Goring played in all situations, he was good defensively, very tenacious (without taking penalties), strong skater....he really exemplified the Islanders style of play as well as anybody. He was a standout. He always had pretty good offensive skill too. Just a very important player for the Isles.

 

[bobholly39]

Most people who watched the '81 playoffs expected Goring to win. In addition to his five goals in the finals, Goring played in all situations, he was good defensively, very tenacious (without taking penalties), strong skater....he really exemplified the Islanders style of play as well as anybody. He was a standout. He always had pretty good offensive skill too. Just a very important player for the Isles.

Thanks for the extra input. It's obviously before my time, so I have no direct experience of watching/following that series - but that still boggles my mind.

He was good defensively? But - wouldn't Trottier have been better? Trottier who also scored 7 points in finals, but way more points overall?

I have trouble envisioning something like that happening today. Imagine if instead of McDavid getting the smythe in 2024, they'd have given it to someone else on his team with ~20 less points because he's more of a heart and soul type player. It's just very strange....

 

[Staniowski]

Thanks for the extra input. It's obviously before my time, so I have no direct experience of watching/following that series - but that still boggles my mind.

He was good defensively? But - wouldn't Trottier have been better? Trottier who also scored 7 points in finals, but way more points overall?

I have trouble envisioning something like that happening today. Imagine if instead of McDavid getting the smythe in 2024, they'd have given it to someone else on his team with ~20 less points because he's more of a heart and soul type player. It's just very strange....

It's not strange at all, and certainly wasn't considered so at the time. It's only seen as strange by some people now who weren't watching at the time.

Goring receiving the Conn Smythe was expected by most observers. He was certainly considered more important to the team defensively than Trottier was. And Goring had different dimensions to his game - nobody skated all over the ice tirelessly like Goring did.

The comparison to McDavid is not apt. For one thing, Trottier and Bossy weren't McDavid. But also, the context is important. Players like Goring were bigger standouts in 1981 than they are now, when coaching and defense are more prominent. Goring was a special player for the Islanders.

Still, Trottier or Bossy could've won the Conn Smythe too.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

I’m sorry I messed with the result, I’m not usually trolling.

But I can defend my vote, I’m sure I can.

Goring had that certain je ne sais quoi in 1981. And a game winner in the cup finals, indeed, Mario didn’t win a single game when push came to show.

 

[bobholly39]

I’m sorry I messed with the result, I’m not usually trolling.

But I can defend my vote, I’m sure I can.

Goring had that certain je ne sais quoi in 1981. And a game winner in the cup finals, indeed, Mario didn’t win a single game when push came to show.

Oh come on.

Goring shouldn't even have won his. Lemieux's is in contention for the very best playoff run of all-time. It's fine if you think highly of Goring's run - but that's hell of a bridge to gap to slot him above Lemieux.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Oh come on.

Goring shouldn't even have won his. Lemieux's is in contention for the very best playoff run of all-time. It's fine if you think highly of Goring's run - but that's hell of a bridge to gap to slot him above Lemieux.

It’s a stupid poll, the comparison is ridiculous, I was joking.

 

[tabness]

I’m sorry I messed with the result, I’m not usually trolling.

But I can defend my vote, I’m sure I can.

Goring had that certain je ne sais quoi in 1981. And a game winner in the cup finals, indeed, Mario didn’t win a single game when push came to show.

appreciate you giving Goring a vote!

did not deserve a clean sweep (probably from many people who didn't even watch him or know who he even is lol)