Please Remember to vote for the TWO best performances everyone. This will determine the remaining participants for the Final Round.
blundluntman
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Conn Smythe Tournament (1977-00) Elimination Round: 1993 Patrick Roy vs 1991 Lemieux vs 1985 Wayne Gretzky
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blundluntman
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Gretzky is the easy pick here. I'm having a bit of trouble picking between Roy and Lemieux though so I'll try and to lay things out the best I can.
Round 1: Roy definitely had the stronger 1st round, shutting the door on a very strong (albeit young) Quebec team. Lemieux on the other hand had a pretty rough start against a mediocre/weak NJ team where he was barely 1 ppg.
Round 2: Lemieux started to pick up steam this round and was 2 ppg against a decent enough Washington team. Although MTL swept a very top-heavy Sabres team this series, it was more so the result of Buffalo's goaltending than Roy's (he was pretty decent but not phenomenal). Lemieux takes this one by a hair. but you could argue it's a wash.
Round 3: Lemeiux was absurdly dominant this round against a very strong Boston team, putting up 15 points in 6 games against Bourque's Bruins. Roy was pretty damn good against NY this round as well, but they weren't Boston and Roy wasn't as dominant. This is Lemieux by a pretty good margin.
Round 4: Lemeiux was incredible this round as well, but the North Stars were by no means a strong team (they had some pretty good offensive pieces though). Roy had a tougher matchup against Gretzky's Kings and was phenomenal in the final 2 closeout games. I'd say it's a wash but maybe you could argue Roy
I'd say Lemieux had the most impressive individual performance from both runs against Boston in the ECF; but he also had an extremely strong team. Roy didn't face any team as strong as Boston but had harder competition from Round to Round, especially as a goalie given the offensive talent on those Quebec, Buffalo and LA teams. There's also the 10 OT streak which is such an otherworldly feat on it's own. When fans talk about intangibles outside of stats, Roy is the perfect example given how he was able to get inside the heads of his opponents once he was dialed in.
I think I'm gonna go Roy here but I could be swayed just as easily the other way if a good enough argument was presented.
Round 1: Roy definitely had the stronger 1st round, shutting the door on a very strong (albeit young) Quebec team. Lemieux on the other hand had a pretty rough start against a mediocre/weak NJ team where he was barely 1 ppg.
Round 2: Lemieux started to pick up steam this round and was 2 ppg against a decent enough Washington team. Although MTL swept a very top-heavy Sabres team this series, it was more so the result of Buffalo's goaltending than Roy's (he was pretty decent but not phenomenal). Lemieux takes this one by a hair. but you could argue it's a wash.
Round 3: Lemeiux was absurdly dominant this round against a very strong Boston team, putting up 15 points in 6 games against Bourque's Bruins. Roy was pretty damn good against NY this round as well, but they weren't Boston and Roy wasn't as dominant. This is Lemieux by a pretty good margin.
Round 4: Lemeiux was incredible this round as well, but the North Stars were by no means a strong team (they had some pretty good offensive pieces though). Roy had a tougher matchup against Gretzky's Kings and was phenomenal in the final 2 closeout games. I'd say it's a wash but maybe you could argue Roy
I'd say Lemieux had the most impressive individual performance from both runs against Boston in the ECF; but he also had an extremely strong team. Roy didn't face any team as strong as Boston but had harder competition from Round to Round, especially as a goalie given the offensive talent on those Quebec, Buffalo and LA teams. There's also the 10 OT streak which is such an otherworldly feat on it's own. When fans talk about intangibles outside of stats, Roy is the perfect example given how he was able to get inside the heads of his opponents once he was dialed in.
I think I'm gonna go Roy here but I could be swayed just as easily the other way if a good enough argument was presented.
Bouboumaster
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Roy for sure
What Roy did in 1993 is the stuff of Legends and might not be replecated, ever
10-0 in overtimes? Crazy shit
What Roy did in 1993 is the stuff of Legends and might not be replecated, ever
10-0 in overtimes? Crazy shit
blundluntman
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This round's meant to select the finalists for the last round so if you don't mind, could you please vote for your top 2 seasons? Thanks
Bouboumaster
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Nathaniel Skywalker
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WalterLundy
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I have it for you.
Playoff league averages:
1984-85: ESG:2.65, PPG: 0.94, SHG: 0.16
1990-91: ESG : 2.18, PPG: 1.01, SHG: 0.10
Adjusted to 1984-85:
91 Lemieux:
23 GP: 18 G, 30 A, 48 P (2.09)
Actual 1984-85 Gretzky:
18 GP: 17 G, 30 A, 47 P (2.61)
Obviously Gretzky’s is still significantly better per game and in general but Lemieux’s run does clearly improve in 1985 levels.
As great as Patrick Roy is - it's hard to overlook the sheer offense of the other 2. And this isn't a case of scoring a lot in early rounds - it's quite the opposite in fact, which makes it that much more impressive.
Mario Lemieux - last 4 games of the finals after his team goes down 1-0 after game 1:
2 points, 2 points, 3 points, 4 points. Total of 4 goals/11 points in last 4 games, all 4 wins.
Mario Lemieux - ECF. His team goes down 0-2 to Boston, and so in last 4 games:
2 points, 2 points, 4 points, 3 points. 4 goals, 11 points.
In fact - after going down 1-0 in round 2, Lemieux had only 9 points in his first 8 games. He then put his team on his back the rest of the way, with 35 points (and 18 goals) in remaining 15 games.
Gretzky:
Oilers go down 1-0 in finals. Gretzky follow up with:
1 point, 4 points, 2 points, 4 points. 11 points in last 4 games of finals, including 7 goals
Gretzky also had 11 points in last 3 games of round 3
7 points in the series winning game of round 2
Patrick Roy in 1993 I believe is the greatest playoff run by a goalie. But just like with eveyrthing else in hockey - no matter how good you are - it's very hard to rival the very best of Lemieux/Gretzky. I have Patrick Roy #3 here.
The 10 OT wins is absolutely spectacular. I think what was especially strong for Roy was "intangibles". It wasn't so much that in those OT wins he would go 2 or 3 OT periods deep and have 30+ saves in OT - it was more about giving the necessary confidence to his teammates that no matter what he wasn't letting one in, and boosting their confidence, and in the end majority of those OT wins were won early in OT. Still a testament to his incredible play and leadership. Someone has to finish #3 however, and I think it should be Roy.
The incredible thing about Lemieux and Gretzky is that if you try hard enough, you can probably rationalize their 92 and 88 smythes as being as good/better.
Mario Lemieux - last 4 games of the finals after his team goes down 1-0 after game 1:
2 points, 2 points, 3 points, 4 points. Total of 4 goals/11 points in last 4 games, all 4 wins.
Mario Lemieux - ECF. His team goes down 0-2 to Boston, and so in last 4 games:
2 points, 2 points, 4 points, 3 points. 4 goals, 11 points.
In fact - after going down 1-0 in round 2, Lemieux had only 9 points in his first 8 games. He then put his team on his back the rest of the way, with 35 points (and 18 goals) in remaining 15 games.
Gretzky:
Oilers go down 1-0 in finals. Gretzky follow up with:
1 point, 4 points, 2 points, 4 points. 11 points in last 4 games of finals, including 7 goals
Gretzky also had 11 points in last 3 games of round 3
7 points in the series winning game of round 2
Patrick Roy in 1993 I believe is the greatest playoff run by a goalie. But just like with eveyrthing else in hockey - no matter how good you are - it's very hard to rival the very best of Lemieux/Gretzky. I have Patrick Roy #3 here.
The 10 OT wins is absolutely spectacular. I think what was especially strong for Roy was "intangibles". It wasn't so much that in those OT wins he would go 2 or 3 OT periods deep and have 30+ saves in OT - it was more about giving the necessary confidence to his teammates that no matter what he wasn't letting one in, and boosting their confidence, and in the end majority of those OT wins were won early in OT. Still a testament to his incredible play and leadership. Someone has to finish #3 however, and I think it should be Roy.
The incredible thing about Lemieux and Gretzky is that if you try hard enough, you can probably rationalize their 92 and 88 smythes as being as good/better.
Not to nitpick - but Roy is actually 10-1 in OT.
Montreal lost game 1 of round 1 to Quebec in OT - but he did go on to then win his next 10 OT games that playoff.
All but one of the wins were only 1 period of OT - and a lot of them were goals scored fairly early by Montreal.
I think it speaks to the confidence boost he gave his teammates. "yeah yeah, go score - don't worry I got this, I won't let one in". But it was definitely a great team effort by Montreal in clinching those games in OT early.
Like I said in my prior post - as amazing as Roy 93 is - it's just hard to overlook the sheer domination of Lemieux and Gretzky at their very best.
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