Congrats to Vegas and Bruce

rocketdan9

Registered User
Feb 5, 2009
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Just for discussion purpose...

I wonder how folks like Debrusk, Carlo, Grz ....feel about Cassidy raising the cup

I was on the players side....in that Bruce should have not thrown them under the bus (post games)

I don't know if Bruce had no choice. I sort of wish (if they gave it another chance)..... that management could have got Bruce and these players in one room. to hash it out. Vs having this animosity in the air (affecting the quality of the dressing room)

If ... this was mostly Bruces bad and he only recognized what he did after getting fired. It was probably never going to workout unless Bruce (fired) or some of these players were traded.

End of the day... Bruce is a fine coach and a new cup winner. We were guessing if, it was him pressing some of the wrong buttons/Inability to develop young talent. It was just not good enough of a mix/togetherness.....sadly
 
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PB37

Mr Selke
Oct 1, 2002
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Lots to unpack with the Bruins.
1. Yes, this should have been their year. Sweeney did his job and loaded the team for a long playoff run. The consequences for that is now they have no money, no draft picks and limited ability to improve the team.
2. The players are simply to blame. They didn't play playoff hockey. Injuries happened at the most inopportune time. Certain players didn't step up. You need to play tough hockey when it comes to the playoffs. Too many soft players on this roster.
3. Monty got outcoached. The same can be said in 2019 when Berube outcoached Bruce. Monty tried to be too nice of a coach and it backfired to some degree. Players needed to ramp up their intensity and it didn't happen.
4. Construction of the team still lacks a big mobile defense. This has been the issue for some time with the likes of Krug, Grez, Cliffy, etc. Too small of defenseman and not nasty enough. Lindholm and Carlo are not tough playoff warriors.
5. The need for tough Canadian players. Look at Vegas with 18 Canadian players. The desire to win.

6. Goal scorers need to seize the moment. Your top players need to be the difference makers. The Bruin stars didn't really perform at that level. Tkachuk, Marchessault, Stone, Eichel, Draisaitl, McDavid and Hintz were big playoff performers.
7. This was the Bruins chance to try to win it all and they fell flat on their faces. Unfortunately, as a Bruin fan it's difficult. The disappointment of 2013, 2019 and 2023 have lasting scars. For those a bit older you will remember 1974, 1977 and 1978 as difficult times as a Bruin fan as well. Disappointing results in the finals.


in reply to #6: I think that's what hurt about that game that the Bruins did have their best scorer come up big. Bruins went into the third down but tied the game and then Pasta scored his 5th goal of the series to put the team up with a few minutes left. Orlov hits the post soon after that would have probably closed the game and series out but instead, we get the whole sequence with a minute left when the puck bounced off McAvoy's stick and in the net. Bruins put themselves in that situation with some shit puck management in the prior games but then got burnt by shit luck.
 

missingchicklet

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Jan 24, 2010
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2. Cassidy neuters his players and doesn't allow them to play tough, physical hockey and play the body when the opportunity presents. Again, clearly not the case with the VGK. Big tough team that never takes a backwards step, punishes opponents wherever possible and hits to hurt. Florida had outmuscled all the teams in the east but against Vegas they ran into a brick wall. Gudas and Tkachuk in particular had been bullying other teams at will, but the Knights put both on the shelf for periods of time and made all their opponents accountable.
Pietrangelo cheap-shotted Drai and pretty well ended his effectiveness that series. Was on his best behavior after his suspension. Other than that, VGK played fairly disciplined hockey. I think Bruce actually did draw them back a little on the physical front. Past couple seasons in general VGK were more aggressive and did more dirty stuff. Bruce was a good fit for this group. Big strong guys who needed to play more disciplined hockey. Responsible hard-nosed hockey is Bruce's MO.

I was impressed at how well VGK handled FLA. VGK took no crap and although they didn't throw a ton of hits, they importantly threw key hits. Obviously targeted Gudas and Tkachuk, and were successful at that. FLA kept throwing hits that put them out of position, as well as committing penalties that hadn't been called earlier in the playoffs. VGK didn't do much of that. Bruce's team was able to strike a good balance between playing physical and staying disciplined. He had a group of horses in Vegas he didn't have in Boston.

I take back any nonsense I posted the past few years about Bruce neutering the Bs. Turns out all along it wasn't him, it was the players. B's first round with a different coach contrasted with VGK this playoffs showed me all I needed to see.
 

Dennis Bonvie

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Dec 29, 2007
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agreed.
but you get my point. Its not like Vegas was handed anything, IMO.

I get it.

I guess when you get to the finals in the first year of existence there needs to be a simple reason why. Amazing good fortune in the expansion draft and a great short-term coach in Gallant probably the biggest reasons.
 

missingchicklet

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Jan 24, 2010
36,589
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I think the way the expansion draft is done is a bit unfair to the other teams, but I don't see any other way to do it if the league wants to keep expanding. The price the owners pay is enormous. The league wants the new teams to quickly establish fan bases. Owners aren't going to pay big money and take the risk of starting a team in a new market if they think they will need to slowly build over a decade to be competitive.

Vegas and Seattle took different approaches initially in team building, yet both have proven to be very competitive quickly. As @Gee Wally points out, VGK made good moves. That was not handed to them on a silver platter. It rubs me the wrong way to see expansion teams do so well in their infancy, but that is something I just need to get over. The league will continue to expand, which also rubs me the wrong way, and, again, is something I will need to get over.

From an old-school purity of the sport standpoint I get grumpy about much of what the NHL has been doing. From a business standpoint I tip my hat to them and realize expanding the league and the fan base is ultimately the right move for the health of the league long term.
 
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Dellstrom

Pastrnasty
May 1, 2011
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Was cool seeing the clear emotion in Butch’s eyes last night. Congrats to him and the Knights. A very long coaching road with lots of ups and downs for him and well deserved.
 
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LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
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Anyone who said Cassidy had to go really misses the point of who the problem is, yes is because they are still here, in the Bruins' organization. The problem wasn't the coach. It never was the coach. It's the front office of Sweeney and Neely, as well as the boy's club mentality they allowed to fester in this team. These two knuckleheads have done everything but look in the mirror for the problems with the team. Whether it has been drafting low ceiling players like Jake DeBrusk who can't take coaching, never being able to hit on anything in free agency, always dumping away futures to extend a nonexistent window at the trade deadline, whittling your scouting department down to a nub and filling it with ex players from the 90s and 2000s teams, not allowing the coach to change the coaching staff, or even not doing basic homework on a problem player like Mitchell Miller. Cassidy wasn't the issue with this team. The front office was and it still is.

I'm happy for Bruce winning the cup, because it shows that when he gets support, he can put together everything else and get a team to the promise land.
100% this. Imagine being the front office of an NHL team where you let the players dictate who's in charge, all because they dislike when he's critical of them in the media. This is why the core of this team has quit on two coaches now and underachieved for the level of talent they have. The front office allowed it.
 

Ratty

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oh i understand why the fired him but just as happy for him
Sorry, I still don't understand it
With his record of success, minus, of course, a Cup and another year to go on his contract, why? Ok? players wanted a softer,loving coach, but who is supposed to be running the show?

Stone said it all in his post game; Bruce made us focus and work at our game or words to that effect. Sweeney etc co screwed up big.
 
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KnightofBoston

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Mar 22, 2010
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Rarely happens in sports

But...must be a sweet revenge for the coach

Mcphee pulled all the right strings after missing the playoffs


Why? The last thing is.... blame towards him for that finals run.

Game 7... a few players decided to have a poor outing (wrong time). Thats how we lost...

I’m not here to debate 2019 but I’ll bet my mortgage that if you asked Cassidy if he felt responsible for 2019 he would tell you “yes absolutely”
 

Aussie Bruin

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Pietrangelo cheap-shotted Drai and pretty well ended his effectiveness that series. Was on his best behavior after his suspension. Other than that, VGK played fairly disciplined hockey. I think Bruce actually did draw them back a little on the physical front. Past couple seasons in general VGK were more aggressive and did more dirty stuff. Bruce was a good fit for this group. Big strong guys who needed to play more disciplined hockey. Responsible hard-nosed hockey is Bruce's MO.

I was impressed at how well VGK handled FLA. VGK took no crap and although they didn't throw a ton of hits, they importantly threw key hits. Obviously targeted Gudas and Tkachuk, and were successful at that. FLA kept throwing hits that put them out of position, as well as committing penalties that hadn't been called earlier in the playoffs. VGK didn't do much of that. Bruce's team was able to strike a good balance between playing physical and staying disciplined. He had a group of horses in Vegas he didn't have in Boston.

I take back any nonsense I posted the past few years about Bruce neutering the Bs. Turns out all along it wasn't him, it was the players. B's first round with a different coach contrasted with VGK this playoffs showed me all I needed to see.

Yeah for sure. Bruce still had control and clearly set the limits of what was and wasn't acceptable. Let the team be hard and stick up for each other but not be reckless thugs, probably that one Pietrangelo slash aside. A good balance.
 
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RoccoF14

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I get it.

I guess when you get to the finals in the first year of existence there needs to be a simple reason why. Amazing good fortune in the expansion draft and a great short-term coach in Gallant probably the biggest reasons.
Maybe its just me, but Gerard Gallant's coaching career has me completely baffled. Seems to me that he's won everywhere he's gone, yet he can't seem to stick for more than 3 years, and I really haven't heard a rational explanation why? Everywhere he's gone, his players seem to have loved playing for him, and he's been very successful with every franchise he's coached.

He took a shit Florida club from worst to 1st in the Atlantic in a 2 year span.
Took an expansion Vegas team to the SCF in his first year.
Took a soft Rangers team to the Conference Finals in his first year.

What am I missing here?

I’m not here to debate 2019 but I’ll bet my mortgage that if you asked Cassidy if he felt responsible for 2019 he would tell you “yes absolutely”
I think there's about 20 players who would say the same thing as well.....
 
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PB37

Mr Selke
Oct 1, 2002
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Sorry, I still don't understand it
With his record of success, minus, of course, a Cup and another year to go on his contract, why? Ok? players wanted a softer,loving coach, but who is supposed to be running the show?

Stone said it all in his post game; Bruce made us focus and work at our game or words to that effect. Sweeney etc co screwed up big.

For Vegas, it's a fresh voice to listen to. Cassidy had that same effect when he came on board with the Bruins. If they have the same players by year 4 or 5 and Cassidy is still there with the same message and intensity, it's going to wear thin. It's the just the nature of the position.

Maybe its just me, but Gerard Gallant's coaching career has me completely baffled. Seems to me that he's won everywhere he's gone, yet he can't seem to stick for more than 3 years, and I really haven't heard a rational explanation why? Everywhere he's gone, his players seem to have loved playing for him, and he's been very successful with every franchise he's coached.

He took a shit Florida club from worst to 1st in the Atlantic in a 2 year span.
Took an expansion Vegas team to the SCF in his first year.
Took a soft Rangers team to the Conference Finals in his first year.

What am I missing here?


I think there's about 20 players who would say the same thing as well.....

I know a lot of Rangers fans couldn't stand Gallant and his coaching decisions.
 

BruinDust

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Aug 2, 2005
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I think the way the expansion draft is done is a bit unfair to the other teams

Is it really Vegas's fault that they had 8-9 competing NHL GMs who all tried to play "smartest guy in the room" by offloading their salary cap mistakes onto Vegas with the incentive of draft picks and younger players. It basically back-fired on every team who made that type of trade with them. At least these idiot GMs smartened up and didn't try the same failed crap with Seattle. GMs saw the mistakes made with Vegas and simply said "here's our list Seattle, pick a player, and f*** off".

They didn't get handed Stone. They didn't get handed Eichel. They used a lot of the assets they got to build their team. That's on the opposing GMs who willingly gave them those added assets in the expansion draft. They signed Pietrangelo who might be the best D-man UFA signing since Chara signed here in 2006.

People are complaining about how few of their own draft picks are on Vegas. Well there wasn't a whole lot of home-grown players on Florida either. Does the cup become more special because it has lot of the team's own picks on it? Does a cup become less special because the players were mostly signed and traded for?

Look around the league and where are all those "draft and develop" teams? Because I don't see any of them having success. I see lots of them on Rebuild # 2 or #3 in some cases. Sure, some recent former champs built a core with several high 1st round picks. But once you get past that, the rest of the cast is largely trades, signings, waivers, etc. TB may be the exception but getting talent like Point and Kucherov outside of Round 1 is one-in-a-generation type stuff, kinda like finding two No.1 centers in back-to-back drafts in Round 2 (Bergeron and Krejci). Identifying core players is easy. Did it take a genius to figure out Taylor Hall or Hampus Lindholm were good players? No. But surrounding your core with the right pieces, at the right prices? That's a lot harder and frankly I don't think Sweeney with his current pro scouts have what it takes. Just way too many blunders at the pro scouting level. And Sweeney needs to wear that too. He's the one deciding to sign these guys or trade for them.

Do you think Vegas holds onto Jakub Zboril for 8 years hoping he'd finally become a player? If Trent Frederic is in Vegas, they've already shipped his underachieving carcass out the door years ago. And likely cut ties with both for value on top of it instead of waiting for their value to plummet. Vegas don't fall in love with their draft picks and give them countless unearned opportunities. Call it ruthless or whatever, but in Vegas, you don't produce and perform up to expectations, they show you the door. Ask Gallant or Debour. Ask Cody Glass (their 1st ever draft pick). Heck, they might show you the door anyways (ask Nate Schmidt). Claude Julien had two consecutive seasons of playoff DNQs and STILL wasn't fired until halfway through the next season. Maybe the players should of mutinied on Julien after 2015 like they did with Cassidy.

Meanwhile, job security in Boston is practically guaranteed. Be a former 1st rounder, and Sweeney will keep you for years to try and save face. Heck, Brad Marchand's job is so secure he can't even be placed on a line with a center not named Patrice Bergeron. Fact is, this franchise has basically rested on it's laurels now for the past 12 years. Lot's of security, lot's of 2nd chances. What's the incentive to come to work every day and give it 110% when you have almost no consequences to speak of. Then wonder why your consistently disappointing in the post-season. While you don't want your players sitting on pins and needles all the time, there is a happy middle ground between serious anxiety and the soft, pillowy comfort the Bruin players have enjoyed the past decade+. Scotty Bowman's MO was keeping his players on edge a lot of the time. He did it on purpose. Part of the reason for Vegas's success is their players can never rest on their laurels and think their job is completely secure. They know how their management operate and it shows.

I commend Vegas and Cassidy for winning a cup. And Cassidy's time here run it's course, as it will in Vegas eventually. Frankly the Bruins could learn a lot from how Vegas run their ship. No one wants to see them go back to the "hard-line" approach to players and salaries like back in the 1990s/2000s. But this country club approach towards current players has got to stop if for nothing else to keep these players on their toes and not let them slip completely into their comfort zones.

I find it funny when fans and the media talk about pressure on this team or pressure on that team. Pressure as a pro hockey player to me isn't winning and losing. The pressure to me comes from getting traded mid-season to some other team maybe far away from their current homestead because I'm not performing. Or the pressure to not find myself on the waiver wire and sent to the minors. Or the pressure to be taken out of the line-up despite being healthy. Or the pressure to get another NHL contract for next season. At the end of the day, it may be a team sport, but the only thing a player can control is how they themselves perform. How can you expect players, even top-end elite players, to perform at their best when their is basically zero consequences for underperformance? Fact is, this team hasn't traded away a major player in 8 calendar years now. And it shows.

@missingchicklet this rant wasn't meant to be directed at you, just that your quote was a good one to run off of. I hope you and the rest of the board here have a great summer.
 

The Storm

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Mar 15, 2022
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Fantastic post by BruinDust.

Couple of observations:

1. The Vegas players seemed like (at least in front of the cameras) they were not all that fond of Cassidy either. I think they respect him, which is different from liking him. Say what you want about Bruce, the one thing he does well is "accountability". His players are held "accountable" and it is what it is. Bruce does not seem like he is there to make friends, he is there to win.

2. Vegas realized that a once in a generation talent like Eichel does not always become available via trade. Vegas jumped on it. Eichel would have come to Boston. Heck, I read that he hangs out and trains with a lot of the Bruins in the offseason. (I bet that he does not in the future now!) Also Pietrangelo is a total beast. He was so willing to take any and all punishment if it meant getting his name on the cup again. Great free agent signing. Bruins could have used him to replace Chara, but they got Lindholm instead. Lindholm has had some bad luck, but he'll be fine.

3. The Vegas D is gigantic. The smallest guy is Martinez at 6'1" 210 (who now has 3 Stanley Cups) or Theodore at 6'2" 197. Hague is 6'6" 230, McNabb 6'4" 215, Pietrangelo 6'3" 215. And Whitecloud (love the name) who is a gamer 6'2" 207. Florida could not break that sturdy D down. The Vegas D wore them down. Meanwhile the Bruins roll out 5'9" Gryz or 5'11" Clifton. So intimidating huh? I bet Tkachuck was shaking in his boots at the thought of going against Gryz or Clifton! That's not going to get it done in the playoffs. I hate small D-men and I'm not a GM. The Bruins really need a bruiser, like a Josh Manson type. Someone that puts fear into the opposition. Like a McQuaid. Why did the Bruins not sign Martinez?

4. I hear you about moving on from bad draft picks, but Trent Frederic should not be moved. He's going to score at least 25 this year, mark my words. he scored 17 last year in really his first full year in the lineup. Bigger guys sometimes take longer to mature into their "man strength". Give him another season.
 
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Aussie Bruin

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Is it really Vegas's fault that they had 8-9 competing NHL GMs who all tried to play "smartest guy in the room" by offloading their salary cap mistakes onto Vegas with the incentive of draft picks and younger players. It basically back-fired on every team who made that type of trade with them. At least these idiot GMs smartened up and didn't try the same failed crap with Seattle. GMs saw the mistakes made with Vegas and simply said "here's our list Seattle, pick a player, and f*** off".

They didn't get handed Stone. They didn't get handed Eichel. They used a lot of the assets they got to build their team. That's on the opposing GMs who willingly gave them those added assets in the expansion draft. They signed Pietrangelo who might be the best D-man UFA signing since Chara signed here in 2006.

People are complaining about how few of their own draft picks are on Vegas. Well there wasn't a whole lot of home-grown players on Florida either. Does the cup become more special because it has lot of the team's own picks on it? Does a cup become less special because the players were mostly signed and traded for?

Look around the league and where are all those "draft and develop" teams? Because I don't see any of them having success. I see lots of them on Rebuild # 2 or #3 in some cases. Sure, some recent former champs built a core with several high 1st round picks. But once you get past that, the rest of the cast is largely trades, signings, waivers, etc. TB may be the exception but getting talent like Point and Kucherov outside of Round 1 is one-in-a-generation type stuff, kinda like finding two No.1 centers in back-to-back drafts in Round 2 (Bergeron and Krejci). Identifying core players is easy. Did it take a genius to figure out Taylor Hall or Hampus Lindholm were good players? No. But surrounding your core with the right pieces, at the right prices? That's a lot harder and frankly I don't think Sweeney with his current pro scouts have what it takes. Just way too many blunders at the pro scouting level. And Sweeney needs to wear that too. He's the one deciding to sign these guys or trade for them.

Do you think Vegas holds onto Jakub Zboril for 8 years hoping he'd finally become a player? If Trent Frederic is in Vegas, they've already shipped his underachieving carcass out the door years ago. And likely cut ties with both for value on top of it instead of waiting for their value to plummet. Vegas don't fall in love with their draft picks and give them countless unearned opportunities. Call it ruthless or whatever, but in Vegas, you don't produce and perform up to expectations, they show you the door. Ask Gallant or Debour. Ask Cody Glass (their 1st ever draft pick). Heck, they might show you the door anyways (ask Nate Schmidt). Claude Julien had two consecutive seasons of playoff DNQs and STILL wasn't fired until halfway through the next season. Maybe the players should of mutinied on Julien after 2015 like they did with Cassidy.

Meanwhile, job security in Boston is practically guaranteed. Be a former 1st rounder, and Sweeney will keep you for years to try and save face. Heck, Brad Marchand's job is so secure he can't even be placed on a line with a center not named Patrice Bergeron. Fact is, this franchise has basically rested on it's laurels now for the past 12 years. Lot's of security, lot's of 2nd chances. What's the incentive to come to work every day and give it 110% when you have almost no consequences to speak of. Then wonder why your consistently disappointing in the post-season. While you don't want your players sitting on pins and needles all the time, there is a happy middle ground between serious anxiety and the soft, pillowy comfort the Bruin players have enjoyed the past decade+. Scotty Bowman's MO was keeping his players on edge a lot of the time. He did it on purpose. Part of the reason for Vegas's success is their players can never rest on their laurels and think their job is completely secure. They know how their management operate and it shows.

I commend Vegas and Cassidy for winning a cup. And Cassidy's time here run it's course, as it will in Vegas eventually. Frankly the Bruins could learn a lot from how Vegas run their ship. No one wants to see them go back to the "hard-line" approach to players and salaries like back in the 1990s/2000s. But this country club approach towards current players has got to stop if for nothing else to keep these players on their toes and not let them slip completely into their comfort zones.

I find it funny when fans and the media talk about pressure on this team or pressure on that team. Pressure as a pro hockey player to me isn't winning and losing. The pressure to me comes from getting traded mid-season to some other team maybe far away from their current homestead because I'm not performing. Or the pressure to not find myself on the waiver wire and sent to the minors. Or the pressure to be taken out of the line-up despite being healthy. Or the pressure to get another NHL contract for next season. At the end of the day, it may be a team sport, but the only thing a player can control is how they themselves perform. How can you expect players, even top-end elite players, to perform at their best when their is basically zero consequences for underperformance? Fact is, this team hasn't traded away a major player in 8 calendar years now. And it shows.

@missingchicklet this rant wasn't meant to be directed at you, just that your quote was a good one to run off of. I hope you and the rest of the board here have a great summer.

Heck of a post. Well said sir :clap:
 
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