Comparing Top 3, 5 or 10 scoring and Hart finishes from different eras

[ResilientBeast]

In the current era, it is more of an accomplishment to finish in the Top Ten and an even bigger relative accomplishment to have five or more Top 10 Art Ross finishes. Crosby's stands apart more from his direct peers with over ten Top Ten Art Ross finishes than Hull and Beliveau did.

How do you reconcile the increased depth of teams in the O6?

Meaning you're playing against stronger/deeper teams due to talent concentration?

 

[daver]

How do you reconcile the increased depth of teams in the O6?

Meaning you're playing against stronger/deeper teams due to talent concentration?

You don't since the pool of talent has increased since then. More players to choose from = more teams in the NHL of equal relative strength as teams in the O6.

 

[Albatros]

How many deep teams were there in the Original Six era at best anyway? Usually it was one or two. It wasn't six epic teams going against one another.

 

[daver]

How many deep teams were there in the Original Six era at best anyway? Usually it was one or two. It wasn't six epic teams going against one another.

Agree, and someone also did an analysis that showed this arguably inflated the point totals of O6 stars who were on one of the dominant teams like Beliveau and Hull since they were facing weaker teams significantly more than a star from today would. To be fair, I think this is tempered by their playoff performances which were befitting their regular season statuses.

I frankly see the idea that the "pack" of direct peers in which a player's performance can be measured e.g. first liners, Top 6 etc... is not generally consistent year after year but has weakened to be a willfully blind of statistics and common sense.

That being said, I think it is reasonable to look at things as tiebreakers in the case where resumes are very similar. E.g. Crosby's thirteen Top 10 scoring placements > Beliveau's thirteen Top Ten scoring placements. A closer examination of all of their scoring placements clearly substantiates this.

 

[daver]

Updated the numbers in the OP.

The raw numbers give Crosby an edge, one that becomes more clear once you consider the relative strength of Top 3, Top 5, and Top 10 scoring finishes in the O6 vs. a 30 team league. Crosby has been significantly closer to the #1/#2 scorers, on average, than Hull and Beliveau in their Top 10 scoring finishes. Crosby's PPG finishes are closer to Howe's best PPG finishes than he is to Hull and Beliveau.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I agree. Crosby matches or surpasses them In his placements and plays in a far superior league

 

[daver]

Of these Art Ross finishes:

Beliveau finished an average of 17% behind the leader in points and 10% behind the leader in PPG

Hull finished an average of 12% behind the leader in points and 9% behind the leader in PPG

Crosby finished an average of 9% behind in points and 5% behind the leader in PPG

If one choose to add Crosby's two seasons where he missed out on enough games to miss out on the Top Ten in scoring (07/08 - 31st and 10/11 - 32nd), his average behind the PPG leader drops to 2%.

In Howe's best 14 season stretch (49/50 to 62/63), he finished an average of 1% behind in points and 2% behind the leader in PPG.

Further to Howe vs. Crosby's PPG finishes. Howe's elite prime started in 48/49 at age 20 with a Top 3 PPG finish. His average behind the #1/#2 leaders in PPG (min. of a half season) for 16 seasons was 6%. In 16 seasons, Crosby's average PPG finish average behind the leaders is 8% (this presumes a PPG of 1.55 for both the 10/11 and 11/12 seasons).

This is still better than Hull's and Beliveau's best 12 PPG seasons.