Commercialization ruining minor hockey

[patnyrnyg]

So look - the story does have some actual concrete numbers, but for the most part is just full of conjecture and anecdotes no better than a HF Boards discussion.

So here's the key statistic:



So I don't want to be accused of saying there's no problem. There is. And this is what this statistics points out.

But it's hard to dig into many statistics. I tried to find the underlying report the news article is based around. This appears to be it:

Canadian youth sports rebound after pandemic disruptions, but rising costs raise concerns about affordability | SRG

But note the report itself is not available online. You can email for a "free summary", or you have to purchase the full report.

So look - do more kids do swimming and soccer than hockey in Canada? Sure, I can believe that. Soccer is unbelievably easy to do (at young ages), and swimming is seen as an important life skill (again at young ages). All of my kids have done both soccer and swimming.

But from there... lets see...



No kidding. I don't care the sport - finances are a concern. Always But does that mean it's the primary reason kids don't play hockey?

Fundamentally - if you ask parents of kids who don't play hockey why their kids don't play hockey - they'll give you a bunch of reasons. Doesn't mean you're getting at the REAL reason.

I particularly "liked" this section:



Gee what a surprise - a guy who makes cut-proof gear says that making hockey safer is really important. I wonder why he'd say that. (note: I do support cut-proof gear, just don't think this is why more kids don't play hockey)

Or this goes to a point I've made a bunch of times:



YOU DON'T HAVE TO PLAY ELITE/COMPETITIVE HOCKEY TO PLAY HOCKEY. Recreational hockey is very much a thing, and one that most players do. Don't point to the highest end elite programs as a reason not to play hockey at all.

So one factor I'm not so sure about:



Look - more ice sheets are always better. I don't think you'll ever get ice costs under $100/hr. But I know in Edmonton they've been pretty consistent about new ice sheets. There's supposed to be a new city-owned rec centre complete with twin ice sheets for 2028 (Lewis Farms). There was a private twin ice rink build in Nisku just last year. Strathcona County is building a new twin ice rink. We had a huge 4-sheet rink built in 2011 (so nice that's where the NHL teams practiced during the 2020 bubble), and another 2-sheet ice rink built in 2014 (Meadows). While there have been calls to close some of the aging single-ice rinks close to downtown so far the city has kept them open.


So yeah - the article points to a real problem - overall declining hockey enrollment. I know I talk to other hockey dads who compare how many kids were playing when they were kids compared to now. But this article doesn't do much to explain what's going on.

all 5 of us swam growing up. 2 of my brothers and I just did a summer rec team and the local pool. It was free, but had to have a pool membership. My other brother and sister swam on a more serious club. I can tell you, it was expensive and cost my parents more than when my youngest brother played hockey. My sister and brother that swam on the more serious club team both swam in college.

When my daughter first started playing, the most common thing I heard from other parents was, "Why are you putting her in hockey? It is so expensive and they practice at 6am..." Still waiting for her first 6am practice and every sport/activity kids participate in is expensive. The free swim team I was on still exists, run by the same town, but is no longer free.

 

[timekeep]

all 5 of us swam growing up. 2 of my brothers and I just did a summer rec team and the local pool. It was free, but had to have a pool membership. My other brother and sister swam on a more serious club. I can tell you, it was expensive and cost my parents more than when my youngest brother played hockey. My sister and brother that swam on the more serious club team both swam in college.

When my daughter first started playing, the most common thing I heard from other parents was, "Why are you putting her in hockey? It is so expensive and they practice at 6am..." Still waiting for her first 6am practice and every sport/activity kids participate in is expensive. The free swim team I was on still exists, run by the same town, but is no longer free.

Not much is free now.

 

[Yukon Joe]

When my daughter first started playing, the most common thing I heard from other parents was, "Why are you putting her in hockey? It is so expensive and they practice at 6am..." Still waiting for her first 6am practice and every sport/activity kids participate in is expensive. The free swim team I was on still exists, run by the same town, but is no longer free.

6am practices are definitely a thing. We've had team practices on the weekends at that hour. As mentioned we've also done some private training at 6:30 on weekdays.

The thing is, from the coaching side I secretly like the early practices. Once you make sure those kids are good and awake you're getting them first thing in the morning when they are at there most energetic and alert. I'd way rather do a practice at 6:30 am than at 8:00pm - those late practices it's so hard to get them to pay attention.

When it comes to cost - maybe just "hockey" has to do a better job at communicating what those costs actually are? Like I've said the cost isn't nothing, but you can pretty cheaply kit your kid up with used gear (and from there you don't have to replace every piece of gear every year, plus trade in the old stuff), and the cost of recreational hockey is very comparable to almost any other activity you want to put you kid into.

But I think that just goes back to what I said somewhere else - I think the problem is people just aren't "joining stuff" as much as they used to.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Not much is free now.

Nope. Eventually I became a lifeguard. Did not work at the pool where I was on the swim team, but at a different pool under same municipality. By the time I was done lifeguarding, it was no longer free. I think it was about $25 for the summer aside from the pool membership. Just looked it up, now it is $53 if you have the membership. $107 if you dont.

 

[patnyrnyg]

6am practices are definitely a thing. We've had team practices on the weekends at that hour. As mentioned we've also done some private training at 6:30 on weekdays.

The thing is, from the coaching side I secretly like the early practices. Once you make sure those kids are good and awake you're getting them first thing in the morning when they are at there most energetic and alert. I'd way rather do a practice at 6:30 am than at 8:00pm - those late practices it's so hard to get them to pay attention.

When it comes to cost - maybe just "hockey" has to do a better job at communicating what those costs actually are? Like I've said the cost isn't nothing, but you can pretty cheaply kit your kid up with used gear (and from there you don't have to replace every piece of gear every year, plus trade in the old stuff), and the cost of recreational hockey is very comparable to almost any other activity you want to put you kid into.

But I think that just goes back to what I said somewhere else - I think the problem is people just aren't "joining stuff" as much as they used to.

Not around here. Not anymore. 30 years ago, yes. Some of my friends who played had practice before school.

I think people just have this mentality that things are still what they were like "when I was young...." Yes, hockey is expensive. Yes, hockey at one time was more expensive than sports like basketball, baseball, soccer, football, and by a wide margin. Now? It is still expensive. But the discrepency is not nearly as big. My friend's kid is about 25 now. Was a soccer player. Played rec but in 8th grade tried out for and made a travel team. Mainly because he had heard then when you tryout for the HS team, if you dont play travel, the HS coach was not keeping you. His kid made the team and he had a choice between writing a check for $3000 or he could do a payment plan $500 per month for 6 months. Included tuition, 2 game uniforms, 2 practice/training uniforms, warm-ups suits. 3 team practices per week and then 1 training session (agility type training) per week. This was more than 10 years ago. Yes, he made the HS team and played 4 years of HS plus travel. Later found out the HS coach was a "silent partner" and had a piece of the travel org, but no idea how much $ he made from it. Yes, huge conflict of interest if you ask me.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Not around here. Not anymore. 30 years ago, yes. Some of my friends who played had practice before school.

I think people just have this mentality that things are still what they were like "when I was young...." Yes, hockey is expensive. Yes, hockey at one time was more expensive than sports like basketball, baseball, soccer, football, and by a wide margin. Now? It is still expensive. But the discrepency is not nearly as big. My friend's kid is about 25 now. Was a soccer player. Played rec but in 8th grade tried out for and made a travel team. Mainly because he had heard then when you tryout for the HS team, if you dont play travel, the HS coach was not keeping you. His kid made the team and he had a choice between writing a check for $3000 or he could do a payment plan $500 per month for 6 months. Included tuition, 2 game uniforms, 2 practice/training uniforms, warm-ups suits. 3 team practices per week and then 1 training session (agility type training) per week. This was more than 10 years ago. Yes, he made the HS team and played 4 years of HS plus travel. Later found out the HS coach was a "silent partner" and had a piece of the travel org, but no idea how much $ he made from it. Yes, huge conflict of interest if you ask me.

Speaking from a Canadian prairie perspective here but it seems to me that the older "legacy" sports like hockey, baseball, football have a pretty robust non-profit system underpinning them. Lots of community club sports supported by fundraisers, governments indirectly (lottery grants, etc.). You can play those sports, even at pretty competitive levels, at a relatively modest cost. Literally the top minor hockey players in Winnipeg are in the public, non-profit Hockey Winnipeg system.

Soccer around here, however, seems based more on the American model for most sports where you are either playing for funsies in a rec league, or you are paying top dollar for the full for-profit elite/travel/select whatever you want to call it experience. There is some in between with nonprofits that provide competitive soccer, but it's smaller than in other sports.

I guess the guys who see business opportunities are doing their best to push players in other sports like hockey to the outlaw elite/travel type model which confers a much better ability to profit.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

6am practices are definitely a thing. We've had team practices on the weekends at that hour. As mentioned we've also done some private training at 6:30 on weekdays.

The thing is, from the coaching side I secretly like the early practices. Once you make sure those kids are good and awake you're getting them first thing in the morning when they are at there most energetic and alert. I'd way rather do a practice at 6:30 am than at 8:00pm - those late practices it's so hard to get them to pay attention.

When it comes to cost - maybe just "hockey" has to do a better job at communicating what those costs actually are? Like I've said the cost isn't nothing, but you can pretty cheaply kit your kid up with used gear (and from there you don't have to replace every piece of gear every year, plus trade in the old stuff), and the cost of recreational hockey is very comparable to almost any other activity you want to put you kid into.

But I think that just goes back to what I said somewhere else - I think the problem is people just aren't "joining stuff" as much as they used to.

I understand a lot of this discussion is anecdotal but I still find it interesting. I grew up in the 80s and I just think that interest in hockey had a different feel back then. First of all if you were middle class Canadian and had a male child, enrolling your kid in hockey was akin to visiting Disney World - it was a requirement for a “decent parent”.

Also I recall NHL hockey being crazy hyped because we didn’t have the entertainment options kids have now. Street hockey used to be massive in my neighbourhood and we’d pretend to be our favourite players. Hockey cards were a really popular hobby. My friends and I had table hockey tournaments together. And all of this was largely because video games and tv objectively sucked, but also because now where I live, someone might call children’s aid if your kid is playing hockey in the street.

Finally maybe some of this is on overworked parents like myself, and that’s something that‘s different today as well (also cost of living). Soccer for me is a really easy “fresh air” sport to have my son in. By comparison hockey is a lot of work and costs way more. I only have my son in it because he absolutely loves it and excels at it. Sometimes I wonder if we’re losing just the “casual kid” these days because he’s not as good as some of the talent in house league.

Also I love early stuff as well. You’re right - the kids play so much better and it really works with my shift work schedule. My wife and I joke around a lot about the 5 o’clock and later games on a Saturday, because the kids seem so out of it and way chippier.

 

[BruinDust]

Also I recall NHL hockey being crazy hyped because we didn’t have the entertainment options kids have now. Street hockey used to be massive in my neighbourhood and we’d pretend to be our favourite players. Hockey cards were a really popular hobby. My friends and I had table hockey tournaments together. And all of this was largely because video games and tv objectively sucked, but also because now where I live, someone might call children’s aid if your kid is playing hockey in the street.

What I find really different is now if a kid plays sports, its pretty much always some organized supervised form that has a schedule. So parents are much more involved than they were years ago because they are the transportation to and from at minimum.

Growing up, if I counted the hours playing organized sports. vs. just kids getting together after school and on weekends, just playing sports with my buddies far exceeds the organized part and I played organized hockey and basketball with a little bit of soccer)

We played road hockey religiously. In the fall, winter, spring. Spring and Summer we'd play baseball on softball pitches even if we only had 5-6 players we'd us ghost runners. Touch football sometimes. Tons of games of 1 on 1, 2 on 2, 21's or Horse as half of my friends had a basketball net.

In a lot of ways our parents had it easy. They weren't the sole gatekeepers of our sports. We looked after and entertained ourselves a lot of the time. Now the parents are run off their feet getting their kids to and from all the organized sports their kids are involved in. Not to mention the enormous cost.I imagine if my parents had to fork out money for every hour of non-organized sports we played as kids, they'd be broke.

It's sad because this push towards paid-for organized sports (which some parents simply can't afford) and the decline of non-organized has created a whole pile of kids who don't have much if any physical activity at all. And physical activity is unquestionably on of the best medicines we have to combat mental illness issues. Then adults wonder why so many kids now are exhibiting mental health issues. Phys. Ed class is what got me out of bed most days, but we didn't have it every day. With the decline in non-organized sports physical activity during the school day it is even more critical now and if we maybe cut down the hours spent on some subjects to get more physical activity, we'd have healthier kids both physically and mentally.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

What I find really different is now if a kid plays sports, its pretty much always some organized supervised form that has a schedule. So parents are much more involved than they were years ago because they are the transportation to and from at minimum.

Growing up, if I counted the hours playing organized sports. vs. just kids getting together after school and on weekends, just playing sports with my buddies far exceeds the organized part and I played organized hockey and basketball with a little bit of soccer)

We played road hockey religiously. In the fall, winter, spring. Spring and Summer we'd play baseball on softball pitches even if we only had 5-6 players we'd us ghost runners. Touch football sometimes. Tons of games of 1 on 1, 2 on 2, 21's or Horse as half of my friends had a basketball net.

In a lot of ways our parents had it easy. They weren't the sole gatekeepers of our sports. We looked after and entertained ourselves a lot of the time. Now the parents are run off their feet getting their kids to and from all the organized sports their kids are involved in. Not to mention the enormous cost.I imagine if my parents had to fork out money for every hour of non-organized sports we played as kids, they'd be broke.

It's sad because this push towards paid-for organized sports (which some parents simply can't afford) and the decline of non-organized has created a whole pile of kids who don't have much if any physical activity at all. And physical activity is unquestionably on of the best medicines we have to combat mental illness issues. Then adults wonder why so many kids now are exhibiting mental health issues. Phys. Ed class is what got me out of bed most days, but we didn't have it every day. With the decline in non-organized sports physical activity during the school day it is even more critical now and if we maybe cut down the hours spent on some subjects to get more physical activity, we'd have healthier kids both physically and mentally.

There used to be a school in my hometown that had decent basketball nets. Kids would just go there on weekends in groups of their friends and play pickup basketball. It wasn’t organized at all - kids just knew to show up. It’s crazy when I look back on it now, because we used to have 5 on 5 games with 3 subs a side and play all afternoon long. And it wasn’t the same kids every time either.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Another issue I see it almost all sports above the rec level have become year-round. One of the funniest and most accurate memes I have seen went something like this:

My Kid's hockey coach: Kids should be playing multiple sports. It helps develop overall athleticism and will make him a better hockey player.
Same Coach: What do you mean your kid is playing baseball instead of spring and summer hockey? He is going to fall behind those who do.

 

[patnyrnyg]

What I find really different is now if a kid plays sports, its pretty much always some organized supervised form that has a schedule. So parents are much more involved than they were years ago because they are the transportation to and from at minimum.

Growing up, if I counted the hours playing organized sports. vs. just kids getting together after school and on weekends, just playing sports with my buddies far exceeds the organized part and I played organized hockey and basketball with a little bit of soccer)

We played road hockey religiously. In the fall, winter, spring. Spring and Summer we'd play baseball on softball pitches even if we only had 5-6 players we'd us ghost runners. Touch football sometimes. Tons of games of 1 on 1, 2 on 2, 21's or Horse as half of my friends had a basketball net.

In a lot of ways our parents had it easy. They weren't the sole gatekeepers of our sports. We looked after and entertained ourselves a lot of the time. Now the parents are run off their feet getting their kids to and from all the organized sports their kids are involved in. Not to mention the enormous cost.I imagine if my parents had to fork out money for every hour of non-organized sports we played as kids, they'd be broke.

It's sad because this push towards paid-for organized sports (which some parents simply can't afford) and the decline of non-organized has created a whole pile of kids who don't have much if any physical activity at all. And physical activity is unquestionably on of the best medicines we have to combat mental illness issues. Then adults wonder why so many kids now are exhibiting mental health issues. Phys. Ed class is what got me out of bed most days, but we didn't have it every day. With the decline in non-organized sports physical activity during the school day it is even more critical now and if we maybe cut down the hours spent on some subjects to get more physical activity, we'd have healthier kids both physically and mentally.

I get what you are saying. 1) I played football all the time with my friends afterschool, weekends, etc. Never really considered myself a football player until I was on an organized team. Played basketball often, never considered myself a basketball player. 2) I do not think it will ever go back to how it was. If anything, it will be even worse where eventually kids are not allowed to use public facilities such as a basketball court at a public park without adult supervision.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I understand a lot of this discussion is anecdotal but I still find it interesting. I grew up in the 80s and I just think that interest in hockey had a different feel back then. First of all if you were middle class Canadian and had a male child, enrolling your kid in hockey was akin to visiting Disney World - it was a requirement for a “decent parent”.

Also I recall NHL hockey being crazy hyped because we didn’t have the entertainment options kids have now. Street hockey used to be massive in my neighbourhood and we’d pretend to be our favourite players. Hockey cards were a really popular hobby. My friends and I had table hockey tournaments together. And all of this was largely because video games and tv objectively sucked, but also because now where I live, someone might call children’s aid if your kid is playing hockey in the street.

Finally maybe some of this is on overworked parents like myself, and that’s something that‘s different today as well (also cost of living). Soccer for me is a really easy “fresh air” sport to have my son in. By comparison hockey is a lot of work and costs way more. I only have my son in it because he absolutely loves it and excels at it. Sometimes I wonder if we’re losing just the “casual kid” these days because he’s not as good as some of the talent in house league.

Also I love early stuff as well. You’re right - the kids play so much better and it really works with my shift work schedule. My wife and I joke around a lot about the 5 o’clock and later games on a Saturday, because the kids seem so out of it and way chippier.

Losing the "casual" kid is something that has been an issue for a very long time. I moved after 4th grade. Since the advent of facebook, many of the friends I made after the move have posted pictures of little league teams, basketball teams, football teams from before I lived there. I see so many of my friends that had nothing to do with sports when I met them. A parent was un-American if they didnt put their kid in Little League when they were old enough. But, kids drop out as time goes on. I remember one friend who I knew played when he was little, but not when I met him said, "I tried, I sucked, I quit." As kids get older HS age, feel like kids start losing interest when they feel they are not going beyond the HS team for their sport. I would have made the baseball team at my school, but I wouldn't have played much. Kid ahead of me at 1B was a lot better, played d1 college. But, I was a good shot putter and discus thrower. I played Senior Division baseball until I was 15 (max age in my league). At 16 was asked if I wanted to play on a Babe Ruth team. Season ran from day after Memorial Day until early August. Declined as I wanted to focus on lifting weights to get ready for football and track.

 

[BruinDust]

I get what you are saying. 1) I played football all the time with my friends afterschool, weekends, etc. Never really considered myself a football player until I was on an organized team. Played basketball often, never considered myself a basketball player. 2) I do not think it will ever go back to how it was. If anything, it will be even worse where eventually kids are not allowed to use public facilities such as a basketball court at a public park without adult supervision.

There is no going back like you said I don't think. It wouldn't surprise me at all if one day any sort of sports participation or use of a public sports facility will require adult supervision. They'll just push more kids to spending more time glued to their smartphones or in front of a TV screen. It's a helicopter parent world now and even the non-helicopter parents will have no choice but to comply. The helicopter parents are the vocal ones will push local legislators, who only care about being reelected, to passing bylaws prohibiting non-supervised use of any public sports facilities like basketball courts, soccer fields, outdoor rinks, etc. Just a matter of time really.

 

[patnyrnyg]

There is no going back like you said I don't think. It wouldn't surprise me at all if one day any sort of sports participation or use of a public sports facility will require adult supervision. They'll just push more kids to spending more time glued to their smartphones or in front of a TV screen. It's a helicopter parent world now and even the non-helicopter parents will have no choice but to comply. The helicopter parents are the vocal ones will push local legislators, who only care about being reelected, to passing bylaws prohibiting non-supervised use of any public sports facilities like basketball courts, soccer fields, outdoor rinks, etc. Just a matter of time really.

It is not just that. Too many kids just do not behave in public and the park workers do not want to have to babysit.

 

[jetsmooseice]

It is not just that. Too many kids just do not behave in public and the park workers do not want to have to babysit.

This is a factor for sure. I grew up in the 80s and early 90s and I do remember lots of pickup games, but there was also the kinds of Lord of the Flies shit you would expect from a bunch of largely unsupervised kids running around. Hence my hesitation to leave my own kids unsupervised the same way.

There is such a thing as helicopter parenting too closely, but IMO a lot of parents back in the day were TOO hands off.

 

[Yukon Joe]

This is a factor for sure. I grew up in the 80s and early 90s and I do remember lots of pickup games, but there was also the kinds of Lord of the Flies shit you would expect from a bunch of largely unsupervised kids running around. Hence my hesitation to leave my own kids unsupervised the same way.

There is such a thing as helicopter parenting too closely, but IMO a lot of parents back in the day were TOO hands off.

So my kid is going to try out for the U15AAA hockey team this fall. There was a pre-try-out camp this past weekend. It came along with a parents meeting. Coach told all the parents about the process but I think the biggest message he was trying to tell us was "if your kid has an issue, your kid should talk to me - not the parents". Because this is U15 - we're talking 13 and 14 year olds.

Kind of surprising it needs to be said, but it did.

That being said though - my own kid will refuse to talk to authority figures. I don't think I'm a helicopter parent (and trust me - I've seen some helicopter parenting) but I've told him many times he should talk to a teacher or coach - and he just won't. I don't know what it is about kids these days.

When my kids were younger we would often play road hockey out on the road. Unlike what some people have said - I've never had anyone complain about it, and the neighbours almost always seemed happy to see us out there. Heck one time we were out there in winter. For some reason there was an ambulance at the house across the culdesac - it didn't seem like an emergency as they wer emoving slowly. Anyways when they saw us playing out there they turned on a big spotlight on the ambulance to help us see in the dark.

I do wonder if we are mythologizing our own childhoods though. Yes, I remember playing outside a fair bit - but I also remember my parents forcing me to go outside and play too (otherwise I would be happy to just stay in my room and read all day). There's a picture of me my parents have - we were out at the lake, I had been inside reading all day, so they forced me to go outside. Anyways the picture is of me, sitting on the dock, with a fishing rod in the lake - while I was reading a book.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

Losing the "casual" kid is something that has been an issue for a very long time. I moved after 4th grade. Since the advent of facebook, many of the friends I made after the move have posted pictures of little league teams, basketball teams, football teams from before I lived there. I see so many of my friends that had nothing to do with sports when I met them. A parent was un-American if they didnt put their kid in Little League when they were old enough. But, kids drop out as time goes on. I remember one friend who I knew played when he was little, but not when I met him said, "I tried, I sucked, I quit." As kids get older HS age, feel like kids start losing interest when they feel they are not going beyond the HS team for their sport. I would have made the baseball team at my school, but I wouldn't have played much. Kid ahead of me at 1B was a lot better, played d1 college. But, I was a good shot putter and discus thrower. I played Senior Division baseball until I was 15 (max age in my league). At 16 was asked if I wanted to play on a Babe Ruth team. Season ran from day after Memorial Day until early August. Declined as I wanted to focus on lifting weights to get ready for football and track.

I loved hearing about how it was “Un-American” to not put your kid in baseball, because that’s exactly how hockey was in Canada. I’m not sure if it’s the same way now. As a parent I never felt any of that kind of pressure. Basically my son made friends with some hockey players and became obsessed with the sport, which forced my hand.

So I am the perfect example of the “casual kid” in sports. My son is a natural athlete and can seemingly excel at any sport without a whole lot of training. But I was a smallish kid, with okay hand eye that just loved sports. Pickup sports with other kids allowed me to often feel like I was better than I was. Mainly it was street hockey and basketball. I had a ski membership and got pretty good at that, but again, not competitively. But I spent every day of every weekend at the hill. The point is I guess that it was really social and had nothing to do with being good at whatever sport.

One of the weird problems I’ve noticed in my son’s house league is that they don’t do skill matching. When I played they divided lines into three categories based on skill level (A/B/C). If you played on the C line and started dominating, they’d move you up to B line. I guess there’s 2 sides of a coin here: you could argue that not playing against better competition is bad for development. But mainly what I saw when my son was in house league, was that some kids skate around and basically never get to touch the puck all game, because the good kids are skating circles around them.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

This is a factor for sure. I grew up in the 80s and early 90s and I do remember lots of pickup games, but there was also the kinds of Lord of the Flies shit you would expect from a bunch of largely unsupervised kids running around. Hence my hesitation to leave my own kids unsupervised the same way.

There is such a thing as helicopter parenting too closely, but IMO a lot of parents back in the day were TOO hands off.

This is the crux of modern parenting. You eliminate horrible things that might happen to your kid, or even that “lord of the flies” mischief, but you also eliminate their sense of independence.

Edit: Also that social aspect you get from running around in a gang of kids. If you’re lucky they play pickup sports instead of trashing the neighbourhood. I have so much trouble getting my kid to hang out with other kids, especially ones that are only a few doors away.

 

[BruinDust]

It is not just that. Too many kids just do not behave in public and the park workers do not want to have to babysit.

From what I've been told, kids/teenagers today are much harder to handle in the schools than they were 25+ years ago. I went to a fairly large high school (1000 kids) and in my three years there was a minimal amount of incidents of note and nothing crazy egregious.

Fast forward to today and here locally the teacher associations is doing a presser about the amount of violence in our school system it's gotten that bad. So you can't blame workers not wanting to deal with kids in public sports facilities.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

From what I've been told, kids/teenagers today are much harder to handle in the schools than they were 25+ years ago. I went to a fairly large high school (1000 kids) and in my three years there was a minimal amount of incidents of note and nothing crazy egregious.

Fast forward to today and here locally the teacher associations is doing a presser about the amount of violence in our school system it's gotten that bad. So you can't blame workers not wanting to deal with kids in public sports facilities.

So not necessarily violence, but a friend of mine teaches high school and he has a lot of interesting stories about dealing with parents and kids. I think kids have much more power now than they did in the 80s.

Example: A kid was playing with a phone during his class and so he confiscated it. The mother immediately ran down to the school and freaked out on the principal and my buddy. In our day my parents would have said, “Well next time pay attention and don’t be so stupid! Serves you right.”

At one point he transferred to a rich neighbourhood thinking it would be the answer to his prayers. Turns out he had to constantly deal with angry parents and entitled brats who basically acted like he was hired help. It was if he was just there to hand out straight A’s so their kids could move on to better things. So he transferred again.

Funny how these things are not exclusive to kids’ sports. It’s just the way things are handled now. I often don’t know how a lot of minor league refs agree to do that job, for example. Or coaches.