- Apr 25, 2006
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- 56,338
That's a very good point. If the team keeps sucking I expect O'Reilly to get traded sooner than later. Too bad the value won't be as high as it should be though.
GDT: Colorado Avalanche@ Winnipeg Jets 10/26/14 1 PM MDT
- Thread starter falconski
- Start date
That's a very good point. If the team keeps sucking I expect O'Reilly to get traded sooner than later. Too bad the value won't be as high as it should be though.
JoemAvs
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2011
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No. If someone gets moved to the Duchene- Iginla- line, it should be ROR. Let Mac and Landy figure it out and find some chemistry for the next 10+ years.
Might as well use Macs sophomore slump to get him accustomed to playing Center. This moving him back and forth between Center/Wing will do more harm than good.
Being a center in the NHL defensively is hard. Mac needs to learn on the job. We will need decent two-way play out of him during our potential cup runs in the future.
Let him struggle and figure it out (but still give him every opportunity and help possible). I think he can do it. Putting him back in a sheltered role on the wing would be detrimental to his development.
I would also be fine with him playing on a 3rd line together with Briere and have him focus on his defensive game.
With all the praise he was getting at the end of last year, I would not be surprised if he bought into his own hype too much.
Kid is obviously a hard worker but a bit of humble pie usually is not all that bad.
We will have Duchene and Mac down the middle for hopefully the next 10+ years. At least one of them has to turn into a very good two - way player. I think Mac has the better defensive tools and obviously more developmental time ahead while Duchene is clearly better now but still not good enough. I would easily sacrifice 5 -10 points of Macs scoring potential for a solid two-way game.
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People are right. It didn't work. It was indeed the case. And no one said they played half of last year together, you did. Just now. The fact that you think Roy should have just kept trying to jam a square peg in a round hole until it finally yielded returns is hilarious.
They play a very similar game, and ended up going to the same areas of the ice, when one guy or the other realized this, he immediately backed off, but clearly didn't know where to go, which made matters worse.
You seem to think that shuffling the lineup over and over will eventually get MacKinnon to fix his game. It won't. That all depends on MacKinnon himself. Right now he's just not getting the job done--putting him with Duchene won't make anything better, it'll just drag down the only guy (apart from the goalies) who's shown up to every game this year.
Rumplesnipeskin
Bar Down
Call me crazy, but there are two top lines. And we know there are two pairs that have notable chemistry - Iginla/Tanguay, and Duchene/ROR. Why not move Mack. up with the old guys and let Duchene go to town with ROR and Landeskog
Duchene is working just fine with Iggy and Tangs as well. Why break that up?
Didn't they already try MacKinnon with the vets?
Again, it won't matter if you trade for the next Peter Forsberg and put him alongside MacKinnon--his failures have nothing whatsoever to do with his linemates.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
- 85,728
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Just finished watching the game. So much for coming out strong and trying to build on a good game against the Canucks. That was bad.
MacKinnon already has zero chemistry with his linemates and can't get anything going and now he gets less than 15 mins of ice time? Terrible. Something needs to be done about that line. Can't even say "it's only a matter of time for them, it'll come". They're not even creating any scoring chances.
MacKinnon already has zero chemistry with his linemates and can't get anything going and now he gets less than 15 mins of ice time? Terrible. Something needs to be done about that line. Can't even say "it's only a matter of time for them, it'll come". They're not even creating any scoring chances.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
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Needs to happen. Duchene and Iginla have played well together even without Tanguay and we know what O'Reilly can do with Duchene. O'Reilly, a natural center who said it was a big adjustment moving to LW last season, is now being forced to play RW where he doesn't look comfortable at all.
Moving O'Reilly off that line might get both him and MacKinnon going since I don't think they work well together. Chemistry is an issue and so is spacing. So many times where they're all just running around very close each other, which makes them so easy to defend.
AvalancheRy
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2009
- 1,093
- 404
I'm not sure what changing lines or trading players will do. This team is horrible with the puck. I have never seen a team turn it over so much. Their defense just blasts the puck up the boards and doesn't even look to pass. The forwards don't make it easy by getting open. And then there is that stupid man on man coverage. I don't care iff this team has Crosby and Malkin, if you don't manage the puck you lose.
Valid points, I have no idea if the man-coverage system is even being used. If so, it's being horribly implemented. It looks like a drunken swarm to me, even Dallas Eakins would blanch at the horrid defensive coverage the Avs have right now.
And I hope this game ends the myth that the Avs "keep shots to the outside." They do no such thing, and didn't do so last year either.
Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
- 50,550
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O'Reilly with Duchene was a shooter. He got the puck around the net and he has good hands around the net.
With MacKinnon? Hardly ever get a scoring chance around the net. It's just not working. He and Landeskog both tend to gravitate towards the boards and MacKinnon creates very little. I don't know what keeping O'Reilly on that line accomplishes. Landeskog has shown in the past that he can carry a line defensively. It's almost always his line who allows the fewest scoring chances, no matter who else is on it.
With MacKinnon? Hardly ever get a scoring chance around the net. It's just not working. He and Landeskog both tend to gravitate towards the boards and MacKinnon creates very little. I don't know what keeping O'Reilly on that line accomplishes. Landeskog has shown in the past that he can carry a line defensively. It's almost always his line who allows the fewest scoring chances, no matter who else is on it.
Yeah, we always gave up a **** ton of scoring chances every game. Varly just won it for us all the time.
The Pwnerer
Registered User
- Jan 27, 2006
- 7,080
- 4,858
ROR nothing but a product of Duchene, but wait he's worth more then him...Guy needs to step up his game if he ever wants to regain the respect of the fans. I personally see him gone in two years.
Metallo
NWOBHM forever \m/
I want ROR at center with Landy and Mack. Remove all defensive responsabilities from Mack and let him be the deep treat roaming at center ice like Ovy. ROR and Landy can take care of the D-side.
Mack is barely 19, he has time to learn C later.
Mack is barely 19, he has time to learn C later.
If not for a couple deflections in front of the net Varly would have had the shutout. Those are the type of plays we got to be more physical with. Both Duchene and Barrie just stood there and watched. Get a body on the guy. Tie up his stick. These stupid little goals like this are really making me frustrated. You can just let a guy stand in front of the net and do whatever he wants.
Loved how Mitchell didn't back down from big buff (hit of the year, calling it now). Even put him on his ass later in the game. What was the 4 minutes for though?
RoR and Lando seemed to be gelling a little better. Both looked a step quicker than they have. Had a few nice plays as well and some good scoring chances. RoR and Tanguay really need to switch though. That line just isn't very good through the neutral zone. Tanguay is a very accurate passer and should be able to get the puck to MacK in stride a little bit better. If RoRs pass to Duchene is not perfect, who cares, Duchene is still going to gather it in stride. Tanguay is calmer with the puck as well which might be good for that line. If RoR and Lando are pressured they just dump the puck. Tangs will pull up and hold the puck for that extra second or 2 waiting for a good pass. But I have a feeling Roy just doesn't trust MacK at C fully yet and feels like he has to shelter him with RoR.
Redmond has got to be in the lineup from now on, and IMO should be switched with Barrie, who is not cutting it defensively right now. Sure Redmond made some mistakes, but they are not glaring ones and he can recover from them or at least not put the team in a bad spot. Very versatile too. Smart defender. Very good skater. Good Puck skills, shot and passing. And physical too. What more could you ask for other than experience?
Man, I hope EJ is ok. That will be a huge blow. Don't even want to think about that right now.
Is it just me or are we always outmanned along the boards? I feel like it's always 1 on 2 or 2 on 3. And is it just my imagination, but why do we have just 1 person down low in the Ozone? We will have a guy behind the net and nobody in sight. And I'm not talking about dumping the puck on a change and the only guy still on the ice steals the puck. Seems like this happens when the puck has been in the zone for a little while.
Man I miss Bordy. We were not the same after bigg buff hit Barrie. Didn't want to play physical at all after that.
IC, did you post the scoring chances yet? Sorry, don't feel like reading this entire thread.
At least give MacK more PP time. Try to get him an easy goal. Hopefully that jump starts him.
Loved how Mitchell didn't back down from big buff (hit of the year, calling it now). Even put him on his ass later in the game. What was the 4 minutes for though?
RoR and Lando seemed to be gelling a little better. Both looked a step quicker than they have. Had a few nice plays as well and some good scoring chances. RoR and Tanguay really need to switch though. That line just isn't very good through the neutral zone. Tanguay is a very accurate passer and should be able to get the puck to MacK in stride a little bit better. If RoRs pass to Duchene is not perfect, who cares, Duchene is still going to gather it in stride. Tanguay is calmer with the puck as well which might be good for that line. If RoR and Lando are pressured they just dump the puck. Tangs will pull up and hold the puck for that extra second or 2 waiting for a good pass. But I have a feeling Roy just doesn't trust MacK at C fully yet and feels like he has to shelter him with RoR.
Redmond has got to be in the lineup from now on, and IMO should be switched with Barrie, who is not cutting it defensively right now. Sure Redmond made some mistakes, but they are not glaring ones and he can recover from them or at least not put the team in a bad spot. Very versatile too. Smart defender. Very good skater. Good Puck skills, shot and passing. And physical too. What more could you ask for other than experience?
Man, I hope EJ is ok. That will be a huge blow. Don't even want to think about that right now.
Is it just me or are we always outmanned along the boards? I feel like it's always 1 on 2 or 2 on 3. And is it just my imagination, but why do we have just 1 person down low in the Ozone? We will have a guy behind the net and nobody in sight. And I'm not talking about dumping the puck on a change and the only guy still on the ice steals the puck. Seems like this happens when the puck has been in the zone for a little while.
Man I miss Bordy. We were not the same after bigg buff hit Barrie. Didn't want to play physical at all after that.
IC, did you post the scoring chances yet? Sorry, don't feel like reading this entire thread.
At least give MacK more PP time. Try to get him an easy goal. Hopefully that jump starts him.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
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I don't think that changes much. O'Reilly is often down low handling the center responsibility as it is and they even had him lining up at center earlier. In the end you still have those three players together and they're not producing. After 9 games, they've combined for two even strength goals.
Well, he did. At least on the defensive side of things.
Obviously it also helped that the defense was a little more efficient moving the puck out of the zone and the offense overall at EV and on the PP scored more often. That ain't happening so far this season. Their team defense is even worse than it was last season, at least so far.
dahrougem2
Registered User
I wish Roy wasn't so stubborn and re-called Everberg. IMO the way to get both MacK and O'Reilly/Landy going is to re-call Everberg and go with
Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla
Landeskog-O'Reilly-Everberg
McGinn-MacKinnon-Briere
McLeod-Mitchell-Talbot/Cliche
Put MacK on the 3rd line and give him easier competition. He's clearly struggling right now and maybe playing against the opposition's 3rd line and (probably) 3rd defensive pair could get him going. Also, the Landeskog-O'Reilly-Everberg line showed great chemistry while they had a chance to play together and were actually generating chances. The whole team was snakebitten the first 7 games, so the results weren't there but if Everberg came back up I think that would be a great line. We could send them out against the other teams' top line without hesitation because all three are great defensive players, and then the 3rd line still has enough talent with MacKinnon McGinn and Briere to generate chances offensively.
One thing I do not want to see happen is O'Reilly moved to Duchene's wing. IMO Tanguay needs to stay there. He and Iginla have a natural chemistry and that will show over the course of the season. Duchene is developing a very strong chemistry with Iginla very early on this season, it isn't taking as long as I thought it might which is very positive. Now if Duchene starts to find that same chemistry with Tanguay? Watch out. But do not move ROR to Duchene's line
Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla
Landeskog-O'Reilly-Everberg
McGinn-MacKinnon-Briere
McLeod-Mitchell-Talbot/Cliche
Put MacK on the 3rd line and give him easier competition. He's clearly struggling right now and maybe playing against the opposition's 3rd line and (probably) 3rd defensive pair could get him going. Also, the Landeskog-O'Reilly-Everberg line showed great chemistry while they had a chance to play together and were actually generating chances. The whole team was snakebitten the first 7 games, so the results weren't there but if Everberg came back up I think that would be a great line. We could send them out against the other teams' top line without hesitation because all three are great defensive players, and then the 3rd line still has enough talent with MacKinnon McGinn and Briere to generate chances offensively.
One thing I do not want to see happen is O'Reilly moved to Duchene's wing. IMO Tanguay needs to stay there. He and Iginla have a natural chemistry and that will show over the course of the season. Duchene is developing a very strong chemistry with Iginla very early on this season, it isn't taking as long as I thought it might which is very positive. Now if Duchene starts to find that same chemistry with Tanguay? Watch out. But do not move ROR to Duchene's line
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Mack did so well with Tanguay and Briere.
The strongest duo on the team is Duchene and O'Reilly. No other pairs' chemistry can touch those two. So absolutely under no circumstances unite those two?
The strongest duo on the team is Duchene and O'Reilly. No other pairs' chemistry can touch those two. So absolutely under no circumstances unite those two?
dahrougem2
Registered User
Mack did so well with Tanguay and Briere.
The strongest duo on the team is Duchene and O'Reilly. No other pairs' chemistry can touch those two. So absolutely under no circumstances unite those two?
I don't believe we should no. If O'Reilly wants to earn the money that he is making, he needs to not be so dependent on Duchene to produce
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
He doesn't depend on Duchene to score. Chemistry is about mutually elevating each other's games. He would benefit Duchene too. When players know each other very well they dont have to think as much and rely on instinct. That extra half second gained could be the difference between a pass connecting or getting to the puck quicker. It's a game largely about seconds and inches, it would make a big difference.
raistlin76
Registered User
O'Reilly had a great chemistry with Landeskog in Landy's Rookie of the Year campaign. Now looks like they have zero chemistry. IDK maybe it's because of MacKinnon. Roy needs to do something. IMHO splitting Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla is not an option, they are really good together. It may hurt the team not help it. Dutchy and Iggy start really clicking after Tangs was added to the line. Mitchell should stay on 3rd line, they are doing good together. I'm not so sure if Talbot is good addition to this line, maybe Roy should back with Briere there. He is much better in offense than Talbot. Looks like MacK is real problem right now because he doesn't fit to any of our lines right now. From the other hand I think he needs just one game to break up slump and start to play like last year.
This season really sucks at the moment, they need to put a streak of good games together really soon because if they don't season could be over faster than we think.
This season really sucks at the moment, they need to put a streak of good games together really soon because if they don't season could be over faster than we think.
forsbergavs32
Global Moderator
The biggest thing I wish Roy would've realized before giving him an extension is that McLeod is utterly useless. The guy is a decent PKer but that's about it, doesn't create offense, doesn't create much energy anymore, and loses his fights which gives momentum to the opponent. I would love a lineup without him and Cliche (though Cliche hasn't been horrible, but still not an NHL player). This would be my lines if fully healthy
ROR-Duchene-Iginla
Lando-Mack-Tangs
McGinn-Mitchell-Briere
Talbot-Winchester-Bordeleau
Looks so much better, but it won't happen unfortunately. But as for right now...ROR and Tangs should switch lines...Tangs can feed Lando and Mack while Duchene and Iggy can continue to feed off each other and ROR will slot in there nicely considering his chemistry with Dutchy. The 4th line will still be a mess but that could be fixed shortly with Winchester.
ROR-Duchene-Iginla
Lando-Mack-Tangs
McGinn-Mitchell-Briere
Talbot-Winchester-Bordeleau
Looks so much better, but it won't happen unfortunately. But as for right now...ROR and Tangs should switch lines...Tangs can feed Lando and Mack while Duchene and Iggy can continue to feed off each other and ROR will slot in there nicely considering his chemistry with Dutchy. The 4th line will still be a mess but that could be fixed shortly with Winchester.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
ES chances were 7-10.
they were even until jets started their push in the third were avs had no answer. EJ going down contributed to that.
they were even until jets started their push in the third were avs had no answer. EJ going down contributed to that.
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