Collected research into women's hockey history

[bobbyking]

is Poulin the runaway goat?

 

[seventieslord]

is Poulin the runaway goat?

I don`t know for sure, but I am sure she`s very much in the running, and I hope we do a proper project one day to formalize whether she is or not.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I've been running through a lot of research the last six months and putting my own list together.

Using the same methodology we've used for all our lists, Wickenheiser will be number 1, Poulin number 2, and there's about 3 names in play for 3 (Hefford, Hiirikoski, Ruggiero).

If we look at Olympics only, it would be Poulin. If we look at World Championships and club play too, it's Wickenheiser.

Wickenheiser was named top forward by the media in 4 World Championships. Poulin, 3 times. Wickenheiser has 2 Olympic MVPs to Poulin's 0.


Reading contemporary opinion, Wickenheiser comes across much stronger. A solid gap between everyone and widely spoken of as the best of all time. Poulin has been the best of the pack, but not that far ahead of Kessel, Knight, and Daoust. Poulin also suffers from a reputation of a coaster in non Gold medal games. She is only sitting at 1 point in 2 games this year.

I still think this is the best project to do and I hope we get enough interest to tackle it next fall.

 

[kruezer]

Hey Jigglysquishy, put me down for researching the WWHL, I will start working thru a breakdown for it!

 

[wetcoast]

So it looks like we won't be doing the top 40 women this year, but hopefully we pull it off next year. I'd like to consolidate all research into one thread for easier reading. Feel free to post any and all research into the subject here.

I'll update the OP to include a categorized collection into women's hockey research.

Pre-World War II
This encompasses the golden age of women's hockey, where domestic leagues existed throughout eastern Canada before collapsing during the Depression and World War II
@Black Gold Extractor's season-by-season analysis
Women's hockey in Eastern Canada, 1915-16
Women's hockey in Eastern Canada, 1916-17
Women's hockey in Eastern Canada, 1917-18

Alpine Cup (1917-1939 Banff Winter Carnival tourney)

Dominion Women’s Amateur Hockey Association (1933-1940)

Ladies Ontario Hockey Association (1923-1940)

Montreal District Ladies Hockey League (1929-1938)

Preston Rivulettes - the famous team and their league activities in Ontario

World War II to 1987 World Women's Hockey Tournament
This encompasses the lean years of post war women's hockey, through to the first international women's hockey tournament
-

1987-1998
This encompasses the international-only era, before the kick off of the first post-war major club league, the National Women's Hockey League in 1998
-

1998-Present
This encompasses the modern era with competing club leagues, annual international tournaments, and Olympic participation
Overview of Women's Hockey at the Olympics


Top Women's Lists
@AlfiesHair's Top 25 Best Female Hockey Players of All Time
Crease Giant's Top 25 Greatest Goalies of Women's Hockey History
The Athletic's Top 50 Olympians for the 2022 Olympics

Recommended Reading
General
Proud Past, Bright Future: One Hundred Years of Canadian Women’s Hockey (Brian MacFarlane) - All encompassing women's hockey history in Canada - 1994
Queens of the Ice (Carly Adams) - 1930s Women's Hockey - 2011
Pink Power: The First Women’s World Hockey Champions (Lorna Schultz Nicholso) - 1990 IIHF Women's World Championship - 2008
On the Edge: Women Making Hockey History ( Elizabeth Etue and Megan K. Williams) - Women's hockey in the 1990s in Canada - 1996
Crashing the Net: The U.S. Women’s Olympic Ice Hockey Team and the Road to Gold ( Mary Turco) - 1998 US Olympic Women's Team - 1999
Too Many Men On the Ice: Women’s Hockey in North America (Joanna Avery and Julie Stevens) - Pre-WW II Women's Hockey - 1997
Women on Ice: The Early Years of Women's Hockey in Western Canada (Wayne Norton) - Pre-WW II Women's Hockey in Western Canada -2009


Biographies
Gold Medal Diary: Inside the World’s Greatest Sports Event (Hayley Wickenheiser) - Hayley Wickenheiser - 2010
Breaking the Ice: My Journey to Olympic Hockey, the Ivy League, and Beyond (Angela Ruggiero) - Angela Ruggiero - 2006
Manon: Alone in Front of the Net (Manon Rheaume) - Manon Rheaume - 1997
Angela James: The First Superstar of Canadian Women’s Hockey (Tom Bartsiokas and Corey Long) - Angela James - 2012


Research elements we need
Olympic Breakdown 1998-2022 (I am currently working on this and should be able to deliver late August)
World Championship Breakdown 1987-2023
NWHL Breakdown (1999-2007)
NWHL/PHF Breakdown (2016-2023)
CWHL Breakdown (2008-2019)
WWHL Breakdown (2005-2011)
Swedish Women's Hockey League Breakdown (2007-2023)
Finnish Women's Hockey League Overview (1982-2017)
CIS Overview (~1970-present)
NCAA Overview (~1970-present)
Esso Women's Hockey Nationals Breakdown (1982-2008)
Alpine Cup Overview (1917-1935)
Lipstick Tournament Overview (1966-1993)

We don't need hugely detailed game-by-game, but at least getting statistical breakdowns for all the leagues would be nice. Any awards given out would be nice to be collected too.

There is a large knowledge gap for women's hockey on this forum. But I'm hoping by fall we can take down the heavy hitters (international and modern leagues) and be in a positional where we could comfortably all put together a top 40. I've found enough from NWHL and CWHL that we can at least post point leader boards/awards voting.

The two big women Euro leagues are kind of a need too. The Swedish, in particular, hosts some of the best players in the world.

I struggle with college stuff, as I don't think the records keeping pre~2015 is great online, but maybe someone within the college system has better access.

The latter three areas (Esso, Alpine, Lipstick) are going to be difficult. I don't believe stats were recorded for Lipstick and newspaper articles are really sparse.

Once again thank you for doing this.

 

[wetcoast]

I've been running through a lot of research the last six months and putting my own list together.

Using the same methodology we've used for all our lists, Wickenheiser will be number 1, Poulin number 2, and there's about 3 names in play for 3 (Hefford, Hiirikoski, Ruggiero).

If we look at Olympics only, it would be Poulin. If we look at World Championships and club play too, it's Wickenheiser.

Wickenheiser was named top forward by the media in 4 World Championships. Poulin, 3 times. Wickenheiser has 2 Olympic MVPs to Poulin's 0.


Reading contemporary opinion, Wickenheiser comes across much stronger. A solid gap between everyone and widely spoken of as the best of all time. Poulin has been the best of the pack, but not that far ahead of Kessel, Knight, and Daoust. Poulin also suffers from a reputation of a coaster in non Gold medal games. She is only sitting at 1 point in 2 games this year.

I still think this is the best project to do and I hope we get enough interest to tackle it next fall.

I gave this a like as this thread is a real treasue and I'm excited to think how we can all watch the assult on

Wickenheiser

by Chloe Primerano.

 

[WhiteTiger]

Finished a couple new articles recently:

Canadian Women’s Hockey 1947-1981
Lipstick Tournament

 

[Babe Ruth]

Finished a couple new articles recently:

Canadian Women’s Hockey 1947-1981
Lipstick Tournament

Cool research..

I tried finding a jersey image for the Belleville Landscapers.. but just got listings for (literal) landscapers around Belleville.. and assorted landscapers around New York, Jersey, & Illinois.

 

[WhiteTiger]

Completed an article on women’s hockey in PEI from 1942-1959. The province was a forgotten hotbed of the women’s game during the 1950s.

 

[Sampe from the 2000s]

A biography for HHOF center Riikka Sallinen (née Nieminen, previously Välilä) I collected from various Finnish/English articles between 2019 and 2022:

International tournament stats

Olympic Games (4 tournaments, 2 Bronze medals): 23.12+13=25
(1st in scoring in 1998; tied 41st in 2002; t15th in 2014; t8th in 2018)

World Championships (8 tournaments, 1 Silver, 6 x Bronze): 45.25+35=60
(best scoring finishes: 9th in 1990; 5th in 1992; 1st in 1994 & 1997; 12th in 2015; 11th in 2016)

European Championships (3 tournaments, 3-time champion): 13.20+18=38
(5th in 1989; t11th in 1993; 1st in 1995 with all-time records in assists and points)

Statistical context

Career points in best-on-best tournaments after a knee surgery ended Nieminen's prime in 1998:
1) Riikka Nieminen FIN 26.30+23=53 (1990–98; tournament points leader in 94 & 97 & 98)
2) Cammi Granato USA 26.31+21=52 (1990–98; tournament points leader in 1992)
3) Angela James CAN 20.22+12=34 (WC 90–92–94–97)
4) Danielle Goyette CAN 21.22+12=34 (WC 92–94–97; OG 98)
5) Karyn Bye USA 21.18+16=34 (WC 92–94–97; OG 98)
6) Cindy Curley USA 15.15+19=34 (WC 90–92–94; set an all-time record in points in 1990)
7) Tiia Reima FIN 24.15+19=34 (WC 90–92–94–97; OG 98)
8) Stacy Wilson CAN 26.10+22=32 (WC 90–92–94–97; OG 98)
9) Geraldine Heaney CAN 26.6+26=32 (WC 90–92–94–97; OG 98; defender)
10) Sari Krooks FIN 25.16+14=30 (WC 90–92–94–97; OG 98)
...27) Hayley Wickenheiser CAN 14.6+12=18 (WC 94–97; OG 98)
...30) Hanna Teerijoki FIN 10.8+9=17 (WC 92–94; the most gifted Finn of her generation)

Best Forwards in women’s best-on-best tournaments between 1990 and 1998:
1990 WC: not selected
1992 WC: Cammi Granato (All Star Fs: Angela James – Riikka Nieminen – Cammi Granato)
1994 WC: Riikka Nieminen (All Star Fs: Danielle Goyette – Riikka Nieminen – Karyn Bye)
1997 WC: not selected (All Star Fs: Hayley Wickenheiser – Riikka Nieminen – Cammi Granato)
1998 OG: not selected

Riikka Sallinen (b. June 12th, 1973, in Jyväskylä) Biography

• Daughter of a pesäpallo (aka Finnish baseball) player Eero Nieminen, who won two silver medals in the national series and made the All-Star game 3 times in his career
• Started gymnastics at 5/6, pesäpallo at 6, and hockey at 6/7 years of age (though she got her first skates at the age of 2)
• Also played lower league basketball in her youth at a time when Pekka Markkanen (Lauri's father) and Jouko Heikkinen starred in Jyväskylä
  • Riikka says playing basketball helped develop her ability to read plays
• Learned to play hockey while competing against her older brothers at a time when the first female hockey teams in Finland were barely operating
  • Lasse Nieminen (b. 1966) played 11 seasons in SM-liiga, winning two silver medals, and represented Finland at the 1986 WJC
  • Juha Nieminen (b. 1967) played 14 seasons in Superpesis (the best pesäpallo league there is), made the All-Star game twice, and won a silver medal in 1996
• Moved to play for a local JYP boys’ team at age 7, living right next door to a set of summer & winter sports facilities, and became the star of her team (matching evenly against e.g. Sami Kapanen in the same league, according to Sami's father Hannu Kapanen)
• Played with boys until the age of 12 when she switched to bandy, since the city of Jyväskylä lacked a women’s hockey team
• Debuted in the women’s national hockey league in 1988–89 and was selected to Finland’s team for the first ever European Championships in 1989, scoring 9 goals & 2 assists as Finland won the title
• In pesäpallo, she debuted at the top women’s national league aged 14 years, 10 months and 26 days on May 8th, 1988. When later asked about her strengths, she considered herself a versatile player and equally strong in many aspects of the game due to her running & batting capabilities. Thus, she played in several different positions. [When I initially read her interview, I didn't interpret her answer as being particularly modest, but then I checked out her player card and my jaw dropped:]
  • 3-time Finnish pesäpallo champion (1989, 1992, 1993)
  • 3-time Female Pesäpallo Player of the Year (1989, 1992, 1993)
  • 2-time league leader in runs batted in (1993, 1995), runs scored (1989, 1993), runs produced (1993, 1995), and lead runners advanced (1993, 1995)
  • 3-time league leader in lead runners advanced % (80.1 in 92; 78.9 in 93; 81.8 in 94)
  • 2-time Golben Bat (offensive player of the year) winner (1993, 1995)
  • Golden Mitt (defensive player of the year) winner in 1993. In other words, aside from leading the league in every single offensive category there is, she was also selected as the best defensive player in the league that year. To the best of my knowledge there has *never* been a pesäpallo player as dominant as she was in the summer of 1993 in the history of the sport (since 1920). Arguably the greatest ever male player, 13-time pitcher of the year and a more than proficient batter Toni Kohonen, didn't even come close to dominating his (admittedly superior) competition in this fashion.
  • She undoubtedly would have won a lot more in her secondary sport but had to quit her pesäpallo career in 1996 (after playing only 2 games that season) due to back & knee problems as well as focusing on the upcoming Winter Olympics.
• In bandy, she is a 4-time Finnish champion (1989, 1990, 1991, 1992) and a 2-time Finnish Bandy Association Female Player of the Year (1989, 1992)
• In rink bandy, she is a European champion (1989) and a 7-time Finnish champion (1989, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996)
• In hockey, she set all-time records in the top Finnish women’s hockey league in 1993–94 with 73+56=129 points in just 21 regular season games. This was followed by three consecutive best-on-best tournament scoring titles between 1994 and 1998 (still the only woman ever to achieve this feat), and a record-breaking performance in the 1995 European championships. She then seems to have been the best female player on the planet in two different sports simultaneously between the summer of 1993 and the fall of 1995.
• However, she suffered a torn ACL in her right knee in 1996. This effectively ended her peak. Determined to play in the first ever women's Olympic tournament, she postponed a surgery and played through the pain for the next 2 seasons. This allowed her to win two more scoring titles in the 1997 World Championships and the 1998 Olympics.
• Having caused severe cartilage damage due to her insistence to play in the Olympics, she was fully prepared to retire after winning the bronze medal, trying simply to salvage her knee enough for normal life usage. Too young for getting an artificial joint, she became a volunteer patient in a research project involving chondrocyte transplant for the knee.
• The knee operation however was an incredible success, ultimately enabling her to return to hockey and play at the 2002 Olympics. At that point, prior to the tournament, her right knee had been operated 13 times and was now finally healthy. She was planning to retire and focus on normal family life after the Olympics, but the tournament proved to be a disaster. Despite all the ice time and scoring chances in the world [I watched the games], she failed to score a single goal in the tournament. And what's worse, Finland lost the bronze medal game and got home empty-handed. She then decided to play for one more year.
• Once the 2003 World Championships got cancelled due to a SARS epidemy, she retired. She got pregnant and wanted to practice her profession as a physiotherapist. This enabled her to spend more time with her family. Living in Sweden, she also coached a local girls’ team there during her hiatus.
• In 2010 she became the 4th woman ever (after Angela James, Geraldine Heaney and Cammi Granato) to be inducted into the IIHF Hall of Fame
• She was then selected as the Team Manager of the women’s national team for the 2012–13 season, enjoying the job immensely. And since her family handled her new profession well, she started to contemplate a potential return to hockey for the 2013–14 season. Now aged 40, she felt good enough in training to attempt playing at the Finnish women’s league, and ultimately made the national team too. [No longer as dominant with her quickness, she transitioned from a speedy goalscorer into a cerebral playmaker.]
• She ended up playing another 6 seasons as Finland’s 1st line center, scoring 7+22=29 points in 37 best-on-best tournament games in her 40s. At the 2018 Olympics, she became the oldest ice hockey medallist in Olympic history while still making the top 10 in tournament scoring one more time. Her career was finally crowned at the 2019 World Championships, where she got to taste the title for a moment before it was taken away. Two months later she announced her retirement from hockey, stating she no longer had the motivation to do her best to improve as a player. She fell less then a year short of playing international hockey in five different decades.
• On January 4th, 2020, her number #13 was retired by JYP; she became the first woman in Finnish hockey history to receive this honor.
• After already waiting for a full decade for the HHOF committee to induct more women (only 3 had been inducted when she returned to hockey in 2013), she was then forced to wait another three years after her third and final retirement. In 2022, she was finally inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame.

 

[VanIslander]

I loved the Canada vs. USA rivalry a quarter century ago. It had epic moments. Playing with a broken arm. One-goal nail-bitters. Seriously better tension and excitement than most NHL regular season games.

I can easily name 20 players from that era but few today. It, like the WNBA - despite Her - hasn't hit (at least with me) like it did at the turn of the century.

Part of it is 'cuz of the 'net (we years later got 'smartphones'), part is the related increase in options - there's so much to watch!!

I can talk women's hockey 1996 to 2006, that's it. Dang greats!

Wickenheiser
Granato
Ruggiero
Botterill
Hefford
Goyette
Poulin

... from 20 years ago, these players stick in one's memory, mine at least.

I will contribute heralded moments and player profiles from then, but no all-time rankings or votes.

I have heard "Angela James" countless times but her era was pre-Olympic, i haven't seen anything but highlights. She is like a Cyclone Taylor or Newsy Lalonde.

 

[AlfiesHair]

Made a post a little while ago of my preliminary top 50, will repost it here in case anyone finds it of interest. It may help some people at the very least get some guidance for their lists.

Mostly looked at stats and award voting. Pre 2000s and defensive capabilities are notable gaps. Maybe underrating defenders. Definitely grouped goaltenders together too much. Some of the blurbs might be out of date for current players. "Points appearances" are referencing world championships and Olympics.

1. Hayley Wickenheiser - 3x MVP (2x Oly. 1x WC), 4x best forward, 9x all star, 13 top 10 points appearances (1st, led three times), always upped her game in the Olympics, longtime captain, HHOF
2. Jenni Hiirikoski - 1x WC MVP, 9x best defender (1st), 7x all star, 4x defense point leader, 5 Finnish MVPs and 6 Finnish best D awards
3. Cammi Granato - 4x tournament leader in points (1st-tied), 9 top 10 points appearances, great NCAA career, longtime captain, HHOF
4. Marie-Philip Poulin - 1x WC MVP and 3x CWHL MVP, 8 top 10 points appearances, insanely clutch (3 golden goals)
5. Jayna Hefford - 2x best forward, 3x all star, 10 top 10 points appearances (no leads or MVPs though), led domestic league in points 7 times, CWHL MVP trophy was named after her, HHOF
6. Angela Ruggiero - 6x best defender, 5x defense point leader, amazing NCAA (1x MVP) and amateur/pro career, HHOF
7. Hilary Knight - 2x WC MVP, 1x CWHL MVP, 4x tournament leader in points (1st-tied), points machine
8. Angela James - one of the first great female superstars, apparently a 6x league MVP, power forward, innovator, HHOF
9. Riikka Sallinen (Riikka Nieminen) - 3x international point leader, 9 top 10 points appearances (most for non NA player), dominant Finnish career, crazy longevity, Finnish league MVP trophy named after her, HHOF
10. Brianna Decker - 1x WC MVP, 2x PHF MVP, 1x NCAA MVP, 6 top 3 points appearances
11. Florence Schelling - 8 top 3 SV% appearances (1st), 1x Oly. MVP, 2x best goaltender, especially impressive since she plays for Switzerland
12. Shannon Szabados - 3x SV% leader and 2x best goaltender, played almost her whole career in men's leagues so she is hard to analyze too
13. Noora Raty - 1x WC MVP, 5x best goaltender (1st), a lot of league awards in the Finnish league, CWHL, and NCAA
14. Jennifer Botterill - 2x WC MVP, 2x NCAA MVP, slightly inconsistent international career but VERY impressive overall
15. Geraldine Heaney - 2x best defender, 3x defense point leader, led league in points by a defender 9 times, HHOF
16. Danielle Goyette - 5 top 3 points appearances, great longevity but little available domestic stats, HHOF
17. Kim St-Pierre - 3x SV% leader and 3x best goaltender, sort of a lack of domestic play to analyze, HHOF
18. Caroline Ouellette - 9 top 10 points appearances, amazing longevity in domestic leagues as well but smaller peak/prime, reminds me of a slightly better (relatively) Alex Delvecchio, HHOF
19. Natalie Darwitz - 6 top 5 points appearances, 5x all star, great NCAA career, also short career
20. Krissy Wendell-Pohl - 2x WC MVP, 1x NCAA MVP, slightly short career though
21. Monique Lamoureux-Morando - fantastic multi-positional player, 4x all star (1x forward, 3x defense), scoring threat for both positions
22. Michelle Karvinen - 6 top 10 points appearances (2nd best for a non NA player, led once), extremely dominant in weaker Euro leagues (5x points leader and 8x PPG leader)
23. Gunilla Andersson Stampes - 7 top 5 defensive points appearances (VERY good for someone who plays for Sweden), only a 1x all star and it's pretty hard to find her domestic league records
24. Jocelyn Larocque - possibly the best pure defender at defense, very Langway-esque as she doesn't offer a ton in terms of offense
25. Paivi Virta (Paivi Halonen) - first Finnish superstar, very little international play but she dominated her league as a defender (8x defense point leader, 17x in the top 3)

26. Manon Rheaume
27. Charline Labonte
28. Kendall Coyne Schofield
29. Jenny Schmidgall-Potter
30. Karyn Bye-Dietz
31. Meghan Agosta-Marciano
32. Julie Chu
33. Carla MacLeod
34. Melodie Daoust
35. Kim Martin Hasson
36. Catherine Ward
37. Laura Fortino
38. Alex Cavallini
39. Jessie Vetter
40. Amanda Kessel
41. Becky Kellar-Duke
42. Therese Brisson
43. Kirsi Hanninen
44. Meaghan Mikkelson-Reid
45. Ann-Renee Desbiens
46. Sami Jo Small
47. Sarah Vaillancourt
48. Megan Keller
49. Molly Engstrom
50. Erin Ambrose

 

[AlfiesHair]

Here are the combined top 20 points records for women at World Championships and Olympic Games. Definitely might not be perfect as I did these manually a little while ago, but it's a start. I have a longer list as well as Olympic-only and defensive points if there is interest. Obviously BoB tournaments have been the best way to 1on1 evaluate women's hockey players due to the state of women's hockey and a lack of consolidated hockey leagues.

Guide: Name - number of top 10 appearances (breakdown of finishes)

1. Knight - 13 (5, 0, 4, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, 0, 1)
2. Wickenheiser - 13 (3, 3, 3, 0, 1, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0)
3. Hefford - 10 (0, 4, 1, 0, 2, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0)
4. Granato - 9 (4, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1)
5. Sallinen - 9 (3, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 2, 2, 0)
6. Poulin - 9 (1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 2, 1, 1, 0)
7. Ouellette - 9 (0, 1, 1, 2, 0, 2, 0, 1, 1, 1)
8. Goyette - 8 (2, 2, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1)
9. Coyne Schofield - 8 (1, 0, 1, 3, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0)
10. Schmidgall-Potter - 8 (1, 0, 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0)
11. Botterill - 8 (1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0, 1, 1, 1)
12. Darwitz - 7 (2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
13. Decker - 7 (1, 3, 2, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0)
14. Bye-Dietz - 7 (0, 1, 2, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0)
15. King - 7 (0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 3)
16. Wendell-Pohl - 6 (2, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0)
17. Karvinen - 6 (1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0)
18. Lamoureux-Morando - 6 (1, 0, 0, 0, 3, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0)
19. Lamoureux-Davidson - 6 (0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 3, 0, 0)
20. Chu - 5 (1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1)