Collected Best-On-Best Stats

[jigglysquishy]

The copy/paste of tables is still broken so this is all manual. The data was all input manually too so please note any corrections and I will update.

I am breaking into two categories: best-on-best and best-on-not best. Recognizing there is a space between true best-on-best and world championships.

The list should be exhaustive for anyone who has more than 10 points across their best-on-best career.

For best-on-best, I am including 1976, 1981, 1984, 1987, 1991, 1996, 1998, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2010, and 2014.
For best-on-not best, I am including 1972, 1974, 1979, 1987 (Rendezvous), and 2016.

Most points (best-on-best)

Rank	Player	Country	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	PPG	Tournaments
1	Wayne Gretzky	Canada	45	20	48	68	1.51	6
2	Teemu Selanne	Finland	39	21	20	41	1.05	7
3	Mats Sundin	Sweden	30	18	20	38	1.27	6
4	Daniel Alfredsson	Sweden	34	13	20	33	0.97	7
5	Sergei Makarov	USSR	22	16	15	31	1.41	3
5	Brett Hull	USA	27	14	17	31	1.15	5
5	Saku Koivu	Finland	30	9	22	31	1.03	5
5	Paul Coffey	Canada	33	6	25	31	0.94	4
5	Mike Modano	USA	36	9	22	31	0.86	6
10	Vladimir Krutov	USSR	22	14	16	30	1.36	3
11	Marian Hoss	Slovakia	23	15	14	29	1.23	5
11	Mario Lemieux	Canada	20	14	15	29	1.45	3
13	Jaromir Jagr	Czechia	36	11	15	26	0.72	7
14	Jere Lehtinen	Finland	34	11	14	25	0.74	6
14	Pavel Datsyuk	Russia	29	11	14	25	0.86	5
16	Sergei Fedorov	Russia	26	8	16	24	0.92	5
17	Joe Sakic	Canada	30	12	11	23	0.77	5
18	Olli Jokinen	Finland	30	15	7	22	0.73	5
18	Pavel Demitra	Slovakia	22	6	16	22	1.00	5
20	Alexei Kasatonov	USSR	22	3	18	21	1.00	5
21	Ray Bourque	Canada	30	4	16	20	0.67	4
21	Ville Peltonen	Finland	30	8	12	20	0.67	5
21	Peter Forsberg	Sweden	22	3	17	20	0.91	5
21	Mike Bossy	Canada	15	13	7	20	0.91	5
25	Kimmo Timonen	Finland	36	4	15	19	0.53	6
25	Brian Leetch	USA	29	2	17	19	0.66	5

Most goals (best-on-best)

Rank	Player	Country	Goals	Tournaments
1	Teemu Selanne	Finland	21	7
2	Wayne Gretzky	Canada	20	6
3	Mats Sundin	Sweden	18	6
4	Sergei Makarov	USSR	16	3
5	Marian Hossa	Slovakia	15	5
5	Olli Jokinen	Finland	15	5

Most assists (best-on-best)

Rank	Player	Country	Assists	Tournaments
1	Wayne Gretzky	Canada	48	6
2	Paul Coffey	Canada	25	4
3	Saku Koivu	Finland	22	5
3	Mike Modano	USA	22	6
4	Teemu Selanne	Finland	20	7
4	Mats Sundin	Sweden	20	6
4	Daniel Alfredsson	Sweden	20	7

Most games played (best-on-best)

Rank	Player	Country	Games Played	Tournaments
1	Chris Chelios	USA	47	8
2	Wayne Gretzky	Canada	45	6
3	Teemu Selanne	Finland	39	7
4	Mike Modano	USA	36	6
4	Jaromir Jagr	Czechia	36	7
4	Kimmo Timonen	Finland	36	6
4	Teppo Numminen	Finland	36	7

Most points (best-on-not best)

Rank	Player	Country	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	PPG	Tournaments
1	Wayne Gretzky	Canada	47	20	52	72	1.53	7
2	Teemu Selanne	Finland	39	21	20	41	1.05	7
3	Mats Sundin	Sweden	30	18	20	38	1.27	6
4	Sergei Makarov	USSR	27	17	18	35	1.30	5
5	Daniel Alfredsson	Sweden	34	13	20	33	0.97	7
6	Mario Lemieux	Canada	22	14	18	32	1.45	4
7	Brett Hull	USA	27	14	17	31	1.15	5
7	Saku Koivu	Finland	30	9	22	31	1.03	5
7	Paul Coffey	Canada	33	6	25	31	0.94	4
10	Vladimir Krutov	USSR	22	14	16	30	1.36	3
10	Marian Hossa	Slovakia	29	16	14	30	1.03	6
12	Pavel Datsyuk	Russia	31	11	16	27	0.87	6
13	Jaromir Jagr	Czechia	36	11	15	26	0.72	7
14	Jere Lehtinen	Finland	34	11	14	25	0.74	6
15	Sergei Fedorov	Russia	26	8	16	24	0.92	5
15	Mike Bossy	Canada	18	15	9	24	1.33	3
17	Joe Sakic	Canada	30	12	11	23	0.77	5
18	Olli Jokinen	Finland	30	15	7	22	0.73	5
18	Alexei Kasatonov	USSR	24	4	18	22	0.92	4
18	Pavol Demitra	Slovakia	22	6	16	22	1.00	5
21	Ray Bourque	Canada	32	5	16	21	0.66	5
22	Igor Larionov	Russia	34	6	14	20	0.59	6
22	Ville Peltonen	Finland	30	8	12	20	0.67	5
22	Peter Forsberg	Sweden	22	3	17	20	0.91	5
22	Sidney Crosby	Canada	19	8	12	20	1.05	3
22	Guy Lafleur	Canada	17	4	16	20	1.18	3
22	Phil Esposito	Canada	15	11	9	20	1.33	2

Most goals (best-on-not best)

Rank	Player	Country	Goals	Tournaments
1	Teemu Selanne	Finland	21	7
2	Wayne Gretzky	Canada	20	7
3	Mats Sundin	Sweden	18	6
4	Sergei Makarov	USSR	17	5
5	Marian Hossa	Slovakia	16	6

Most assists (best-on-not best)

Rank	Player	Country	Assists	Tournaments
1	Wayne Gretzky	Canada	52	7
2	Paul Coffey	Canada	25	4
3	Saku Koivu	Finland	22	5
3	Mike Modano	USA	22	6
5	Teemu Selanne	Finland	20	7
5	Mats Sundin	Sweden	20	6
5	Daniel Alfredsson	Sweden	20	7

Most games played (best-on-not best)

Rank	Player	Country	Games Played	Tournaments
1	Chris Chelios	USA	49	9
2	Wayne Gretzky	Canada	47	7
3	Teemu Selanne	Finland	39	7
4	Mike Modano	USA	36	6
4	Jaromir Jagr	Czechia	36	7
4	Kimmo Timonen	Finland	36	6
4	Teppo Numminen	Finland	36	7

Here is the master file if anyone wants to double check data

Click to read more...

 

[MadLuke]

My reflex of having Gretzky-Selanne-Sundin as the 3 first name that came to my mind in the other thread feel vindicated now... (not that they would have not been in the top 10 name of people of most people....)

Do we have some notion if scoring level of that type of tourney followed nhl scoring (i.e. much higher in the 80s), much lower from 98-2004 and 2008-2017 ?

Or different ice, teams strategy, goaltending equipment rules, roster size, talent level, end up with little correlation between the 2 ?

 

[jigglysquishy]

My reflex of having Gretzky-Selanne-Sundin as the 3 first name that came to my mind in the other thread feel vindicated now... (not that they would have not been in the top 10 name of people of most people....)

Do we have some notion if scoring level of that type of tourney followed nhl scoring (i.e. much higher in the 80s), much lower from 98-2004 and 2008-2017 ?

Or different ice, teams strategy, goaltending equipment rules, roster size, talent level, end up with little correlation between the 2 ?

It broadly follows scoring trends. Both 1987 tournaments are very high scoring. 2014 and 2016 are very low scoring. Finland only managed 1 goal in 3 games in 2016 for example. 2002 and 2004 were much higher scoring than the NHL at the same time though.

 

[Midnight Judges]

"Best on best" is a farcical term for these tournaments which were usually a better than Allstar Canadian team vs teams filled out with scrubs who couldn't make the NHL.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

"Best on best" is a farcical term for these tournaments which were usually a better than Allstar Canadian team vs teams filled out with scrubs who couldn't make the NHL.

You get one of these. Please don't derail the thread further.

 

[Overrated]

Challenge Cup should be included

 

[MadLuke]

Outside 1991 where the argument about missing a lot of Russian is there, the list seem "fair enough" to me,

 

[jigglysquishy]

Challenge Cup should be included

It's in best-on-not best.

The NHL team had Swedes on it, so it wasn't country vs country.

 

[Staniowski]

Challenge Cup should be included

Yes, obviously. The '72 Summit Series, the '79 Challenge Cup, and '87 Rendez Vous are all best-on-best (even though they were different than the others).

Actually, these three series were better than best-on-best...they were like super-best-on-best. They were like the 3-game finals between Canada and the Soviet Union in the '87 Canada Cup. Most of the very best players in the world.

A lot better than playing against West Germany or Belarus....or even Sweden or Finland.

The greatness of best-on-best is assessing players while playing with great players, and against great players and teams. And the '79 Challenge Cup did that better than almost any best-on-best tournament.

 

[The Panther]

It's in best-on-not best.

The NHL team had Swedes on it, so it wasn't country vs country.

But does it have to one one-nation vs. another-nation to qualify as "best on best"? Rendezvous '87 was "best NHL-ers" vs. "best Europeans", which would seem to me (despite the tournament's one-off, brief status) as a harder competition than a normal "best on best" tournament. I'm not sure about the 1979 Challenge Cup, but I can see the case.

 

[Overrated]

It's in best-on-not best.

The NHL team had Swedes on it, so it wasn't country vs country.

I am aware of that but you were comparing players not countries and since there is a small sample of games overall I am not sure why split it into different categories. Btw did you add the 72/74 stats for CSSR and Sweden?

 

[jigglysquishy]

I am aware of that but you were comparing players not countries and since there is a small sample of games overall it makes sense to add those.

They're within best on not best.

I separated it so people wouldn't focus the discussion on what was in and what was out. The consensus ones are in the first category. The edge cases and consensus ones are in the second.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

But does it have to one one-nation vs. another-nation to qualify as "best on best"? Rendezvous '87 was "best NHL-ers" vs. "best Europeans", which would seem to me (despite the tournament's one-off, brief status) as a harder competition than a normal "best on best" tournament. I'm not sure about the 1979 Challenge Cup, but I can see the case.

Why not qualify the Team World’s v. Team North America all-star games then? I’d say those would have featured the very best players in the world in an international type match.

 

[Staniowski]

Why not qualify the Team World’s v. Team North America all-star games then? I’d say those would have featured the very best players in the world in an international type match.

You're comparing to an all-star game. Rendez-Vous '87 was a very high-caliber series. Many of the players, and many fans watching, thought it was the best hockey they'd ever seen.

It was better than Canada Cups, better than the vast majority of traditional best-on-best games.

Same with the '79 Challenge Cup and the '72 Summit Series.

The '74 WHA team, on the other hand, was comprised mostly of 5th-rate players. That series shouldn't be included in anything.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

You're comparing to an all-star game. Rendez-Vous '87 was a very high-caliber series. Many of the players, and many fans watching, thought it was the best hockey they'd ever seen.

It was better than Canada Cups, better than the vast majority of traditional best-on-best games.

Same with the '79 Challenge Cup and the '72 Summit Series.

The '74 WHA team, on the other hand, was comprised mostly of 5th-rate players. That series shouldn't be included in anything.

I’m trying to wrap my head around what counts as a good international tournament that ”means anything”:

1. Some kind of international setting: A highly subjective best of the NHL with European representation works when playing a Soviet national team. I couldn’t imagine Tomas Sandström and Ulf Samuelsson ever being the best Swedes available but they filled a quota here.

2. High caliber: We can imagine an NHL all star team rallying around a shared animosity towards the Soviet Union. If it’s a regular all-star game setting one-off type of deal, it’s difficult fathoming players rallying around a shared North American or non-North American identity, because the all-star games is a family friendly fun type of deal. The World Championships are oftentimes high caliber, but rarely best on best among the top teams. What to do with pre-season tournaments such as the 2016 World Cup with gimmicky teams and a ton of asterisks?

3. The definition of best-on-best: If players are unable to participate due to circumstances beyond injury, such as participating in the NHL playoffs, you can’t claim it being best-on-best. The exception being the World Juniors, where the actual best available players usually are in the NHL, and we can make that distinction because the actual best players aren’t that many and virtually all the others are present.

I dunno, it’s messy.

 

[Overrated]

You're comparing to an all-star game. Rendez-Vous '87 was a very high-caliber series. Many of the players, and many fans watching, thought it was the best hockey they'd ever seen.

It was better than Canada Cups, better than the vast majority of traditional best-on-best games.

Same with the '79 Challenge Cup and the '72 Summit Series.

The '74 WHA team, on the other hand, was comprised mostly of 5th-rate players. That series shouldn't be included in anything.

The Canadian WHA team was very strong

 

[Staniowski]

The Canadian WHA team was very strong

They played decently well and they played a smart game overall, but Bobby Hull was the only player who could've made a real Team Canada.

 

[seventieslord]

It's in best-on-not best.

The NHL team had Swedes on it, so it wasn't country vs country.

I can see the arguments for including 1972, 1979 and 1987, and the arguments for not.

1972: It wasn't a tournament, it was just the best of USSR vs. the best of Canada. Including it would just pump up the stats of players from those two countries. But it was absolutely best on best.

1979: it wasn't country vs. country, it was country vs. league. but, the NHL team had only three non-canadians on it, so it was for most intents and purposes, another summit.

1987: same as 1979, it was country vs. league, and the league team was only 2/3 canadian. but it was bolstered by the very best from all other countries (aside from ussr). Did the NHL team try as hard as they would if it was for their country and not just their league? On the other hand, this was almost the best possible collection of players that could have been put together for a competitive game at this time.

I like that you made a second list to include these (and 2016) for those interested.

make sure you update it after this thing is over!

 

[Voight]

First of all - great work and thank you.

Second - are you including this weeks tournament in best on best or best on not best? Just wondering.

 

[jigglysquishy]

First of all - great work and thank you.

Second - are you including this weeks tournament in best on best or best on not best? Just wondering.

Best on not best. I'll update at tournament's end.

 

[MadLuke]

If the goal is to look at how players perform when the level of competition is extremely high all the time, everyone on the ice is really good while there a good effort.

Those rendez-vous type seem if anything better than the average Olympics game (that can be against Kazakhstan)

 

[Johnny Engine]

I can see the arguments for including 1972, 1979 and 1987, and the arguments for not.

1972: It wasn't a tournament, it was just the best of USSR vs. the best of Canada. Including it would just pump up the stats of players from those two countries. But it was absolutely best on best.

1979: it wasn't country vs. country, it was country vs. league. but, the NHL team had only three non-canadians on it, so it was for most intents and purposes, another summit.

1987: same as 1979, it was country vs. league, and the league team was only 2/3 canadian. but it was bolstered by the very best from all other countries (aside from ussr). Did the NHL team try as hard as they would if it was for their country and not just their league? On the other hand, this was almost the best possible collection of players that could have been put together for a competitive game at this time.

I like that you made a second list to include these (and 2016) for those interested.

make sure you update it after this thing is over!

You could the 2016 World Cup in there, as the best 175 players in the world were more or less there ("best on best"), but they were arranged in an unconventional way.

 

[connellc]

Damn...Gilbert Perrault averaging more points than the great one!!