Player Discussion: Cole Perfetti 10th OA pick

voyageur

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I remember when he was drafted thinking it was a steal for the Jets. I liken Perfetti to Marc Savard. Do you guys see him being a slow burn, eventually getting there, or is the game too fast for him?
Next year is the decisive year in Perfetti's career.

The Jets may not be able to keep Ehlers, if he gets more on the market than the team structure allow them to pay for a guy who is pretty even with 3rd line minutes, like Perfetti.

If Ehlers goes, the next man up on the PP is Perfetti, and that's a chance to hit career highs, ironically in a contract year.

He's been training hard you can tell, he's physically stronger than at any point in his career. Savard is an interesting comparison because I don't think Savard was ever considered an elite skater, and that's part of the issue with Perfetti, especially playing with an elite skater. But Savard also had some rugged wingers in his Bruins days, in a different era of hockey, with a lot more toughness. Jets haven't tried that route yet with Perfetti, though it could be noted that Perfetti had success early in his career, filling in for injury, on a line with Dubois, and Kyle Connor. Before sustaining a shoulder injury. Haven't tried him at center yet, except for a few at the start of last year, and in spite of the injury they currently have to Namestnikov, who isn't taking draws.

I remember one poster saying how Chevy was running up to the podium to make that pick, when a lot of us though Lundell was the better pick. Or Jarvis.

It's water under the bridge now. This season hasn't been a breakout season for Perfetti, but he's got a lot more confidence this year from the head coach. He had Scheifele help through the hardest times last year when he was sitting. So it's a progression, with the ceiling being unknown.
 
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Buffdog

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I remember when he was drafted thinking it was a steal for the Jets. I liken Perfetti to Marc Savard. Do you guys see him being a slow burn, eventually getting there, or is the game too fast for him?
He's had a weird development path with the Covid bullshit (he should have gone back to Junior after his draft) and injury problems

He'll be fine. Probably 0.75 point per game player is what I'd guess... solid 2nd liner
 

Crocket

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He's had a weird development path with the Covid bullshit (he should have gone back to Junior after his draft) and injury problems

He'll be fine. Probably 0.75 point per game player is what I'd guess... solid 2nd liner
That would be incredible to get to the .75 level, that's only a small number of players.

Takes 4 to 7 years for a lot of guys to hone their skills.
Took Sam Reinhart 4 seasons, and even more to become elite. Most good players take about 5 to 7 to truly develop.
1000039454.png
 

surixon

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I remember when he was drafted thinking it was a steal for the Jets. I liken Perfetti to Marc Savard. Do you guys see him being a slow burn, eventually getting there, or is the game too fast for him?

He doesn't get the usage that leads to big point totals. He gets 15 minutes a game which isn't even second line ice time because our team runs its top line hard. He also gets second unit pp time and is the third rotation on both 4 on 4 and 3 on 3. So barely in time in those game states as well. He's doing what you'd expect a player with that usage to do. People expecting more don't really have realistic expectations. It's hard to score in this league especially when you don't get that top pp time.
 

Adam da bomb

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perfetti was put on the top pp unit when ehlers was out, in those 9 games he put up 1 point with the top unit...
Was it because perfetti is no good or is it because he has a completely different role than Ehlers and they still expected to run same pp something he wasn’t a good fit for? Is it familiarity?
I could be making excuses as I really want Perfetti to work out. We aren’t getting another top 10 pick any time soon I hope.
 
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gojetsgo

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Was it because perfetti is no good or is it because he has a completely different role than Ehlers and they still expected to run same pp something he wasn’t a good fit for? Is it familiarity?
I could be making excuses as I really want Perfetti to work out. We aren’t getting another top 10 pick any time soon I hope.
it could be a number of different reasons, the point is his defenders keep bringing up that he doesn't get pp1 time but when he did he only manage 1 point in his 9 games...
 

NA Hockey

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it could be a number of different reasons, the point is his defenders keep bringing up that he doesn't get pp1 time but when he did he only manage 1 point in his 9 games...
Howl many pp’s were during that time, how did the other 4 play?, how many practices did they have during that 9 game stretch? The last couple of games the pp looked great and then Ehlers came back. I think he had figured out the bumper position which is very different than playing flank and he had no practice to get used to it again. He does really good running pp2

So funny you call people defenders. We all cheer for the same team. Would it be better if everyone just said he sucked? Is that what you want ? Some people like him and believe he is doing well and will be very good in the future.
 

surixon

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it could be a number of different reasons, the point is his defenders keep bringing up that he doesn't get pp1 time but when he did he only manage 1 point in his 9 games...

Pretty small sample size all things considered. He put up quite a few points last year when he got minutes on the top unit. Things tend to even out over the long run. I can find 10 games samples for each of KC, Scheifele, Vilardi, Fly and JoMo where they did nothing on the top pp unit as well.

Our top unit this year was designed with roles that catered to the skill sets of the players expected to be in those roles. When Cole went on that unit it was to sit as a stationary bumper in the slot. He was largely used as a decoy as the top unit moved the puck around the outside trying to open up KC, Mark, or Vilardi down low. He didn't see a whole lot of puck touches with how they elected to run it. He started moving out of the slot and seeing the puck more near the end and that is when he was impacting the unit more positively.

Design a role that caters to his skill set on the top unit and results are likely better. That's what we are seeing with Fly this year. He didn't do much in past years on the top unit, but is this year due to a coach who designed something specifically for his game that fits with the rest of the group.
 

surixon

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Howl many pp’s were during that time, how did the other 4 play?, how many practices did they have during that 9 game stretch? The last couple of games the pp looked great and then Ehlers came back. I think he had figured out the bumper position which is very different than playing flank and he had no practice to get used to it again. He does really good running pp2

So funny you call people defenders. We all cheer for the same team. Would it be better if everyone just said he sucked? Is that what you want ? Some people like him and believe he is doing well and will be very good in the future.

The 9 games where over the span of 19 days, so a game every other day. Very little in the way of practice time.
 

gojetsgo

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"he doesn't get pp1 time!!!!"

"well actually he did during those games ehlers went down"

"it's everyone's else's fault that he only put up 1 point in those 9 games and if you don't accept that you just hate him and thinks he sucks"

this is back to back seasons where perfetti's offence dried up for a long stretch of time, like you can't even say he needs to produce without the same 2-3 people coming in on their white horse to defend him..
 
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NA Hockey

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Pretty small sample size all things considered. He put up quite a few points last year when he got minutes on the top unit. Things tend to even out over the long run. I can find 10 games samples for each of KC, Scheifele, Vilardi, Fly and JoMo where they did nothing on the top pp unit as well.

Our top unit this year was designed with roles that catered to the skill sets of the players expected to be in those roles. When Cole went on that unit it was to sit as a stationary bumper in the slot. He was largely used as a decoy as the top unit moved the puck around the outside trying to open up KC, Mark, or Vilardi down low. He didn't see a whole lot of puck touches with how they elected to run it. He started moving out of the slot and seeing the puck more near the end and that is when he was impacting the unit more positively.

Design a role that caters to his skill set on the top unit and results are likely better. That's what we are seeing with Fly this year. He didn't do much in past years on the top unit, but is this year due to a coach who designed something specifically for his game that fits with the rest of the group.
Someone that actually watched the games!! Watched how the pp played.
 
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Jets

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I still have hope for Perfetti, but his development has been slightly disappointing. As a team that can't rely on bringing in top Free Agents or trading for a lot of top guys (NMCs) we have to do better at the draft/develop than we have the past half of the Jets' existence.

Looking specifically at the first round, there are really 3 "eras" of draft picks for us.

The most recent years 2022-present don't really count since those guys are still just starting to become full time pros and have a crack at the NHL roster.

The first group of picks 2011 up to the first half of 2016 are all the core of our team and top level contributors. Scheifele, Trouba (traded for Pionk + Heinola), Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor were all hits.
Average draft position = 11th overall. Next came Laine 2nd overall, who was turned into Vilardi, Iafallo, and Kupari as well as another 2nd rd pick in the too early to call category. These were still wins and acceptable outcomes from the prospects' values and the resulting trades we recouped.

2011 - 7th Overall - Mark Scheifele - Hit
2012 - 9th Overall - Jacob Trouba - Hit
2013 - 13th Overall - Josh Morrissey - Hit
2014 - 9th Overall - Nikolaj Ehlers - Hit
2015 - 17th Overall - Kyle Connor - Hit
2015 - 25th Overall - Jack Roslovic - Hit?
2016 - 2nd Overall - Patrik Laine - Hit

The real let down has begun at everyone's favourite Stanley as the 2nd 1st rounder of 2016 and everyone else up until the 2022 draft.

2016 - 18th Overall - Logan Stanley - Miss
2017 - 24th Overall - Kristian Vesalainen - Miss
2018 - No First Round Pick (Stastny)
2019 - 20th Overall - Ville Heinola - Miss
2020 - 10th Overall - Cole Perfetti - Hit (but jury is still out)
2021 - 18th Overall - Chaz Lucius - Miss

Thats 5 picks made that resulted in 1 NHL player (Perfetti). Granted the average draft spot is way down for those at 18th overall, but for basically being the middle of the 1st round on average, we need to have at least 2-3 of those picks cash in in our market, or at the very least be tradeable prospect assets to make solid returns like Laine and Trouba.

If Perfetti "hits" as a solid middle 6er that's great, but the root of the Jets' lack of oomph to get over the hump in the first round - aside from a lot of draft capital burnt on rentals to varying success - is that after our first handful of drafts our 1st round drafting and developing has been abysmal. Perfetti still has a chance to be a success story in the middle of that, but he needs to show more and has even more pressure to succeed on him given the void of talent we've drafted in years all around him.
 

KingBogo

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I still have hope for Perfetti, but his development has been slightly disappointing. As a team that can't rely on bringing in top Free Agents or trading for a lot of top guys (NMCs) we have to do better at the draft/develop than we have the past half of the Jets' existence.

Looking specifically at the first round, there are really 3 "eras" of draft picks for us.

The most recent years 2022-present don't really count since those guys are still just starting to become full time pros and have a crack at the NHL roster.

The first group of picks 2011 up to the first half of 2016 are all the core of our team and top level contributors. Scheifele, Trouba (traded for Pionk + Heinola), Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor were all hits.
Average draft position = 11th overall. Next came Laine 2nd overall, who was turned into Vilardi, Iafallo, and Kupari as well as another 2nd rd pick in the too early to call category. These were still wins and acceptable outcomes from the prospects' values and the resulting trades we recouped.

2011 - 7th Overall - Mark Scheifele - Hit
2012 - 9th Overall - Jacob Trouba - Hit
2013 - 13th Overall - Josh Morrissey - Hit
2014 - 9th Overall - Nikolaj Ehlers - Hit
2015 - 17th Overall - Kyle Connor - Hit
2015 - 25th Overall - Jack Roslovic - Hit?
2016 - 2nd Overall - Patrik Laine - Hit

The real let down has begun at everyone's favourite Stanley as the 2nd 1st rounder of 2016 and everyone else up until the 2022 draft.

2016 - 18th Overall - Logan Stanley - Miss
2017 - 24th Overall - Kristian Vesalainen - Miss
2018 - No First Round Pick (Stastny)
2019 - 20th Overall - Ville Heinola - Miss
2020 - 10th Overall - Cole Perfetti - Hit (but jury is still out)
2021 - 18th Overall - Chaz Lucius - Miss

Thats 5 picks made that resulted in 1 NHL player (Perfetti). Granted the average draft spot is way down for those at 18th overall, but for basically being the middle of the 1st round on average, we need to have at least 2-3 of those picks cash in in our market, or at the very least be tradeable prospect assets to make solid returns like Laine and Trouba.

If Perfetti "hits" as a solid middle 6er that's great, but the root of the Jets' lack of oomph to get over the hump in the first round - aside from a lot of draft capital burnt on rentals to varying success - is that after our first handful of drafts our 1st round drafting and developing has been abysmal. Perfetti still has a chance to be a success story in the middle of that, but he needs to show more and has even more pressure to succeed on him given the void of talent we've drafted in years all around him.
On the flip side we have 5 starters from the 2017 and 2018 drafts. Does it matter if you got them with later picks or you obtained them in various ways from other teams? Out of those 5 one is a top 6 winger (Vilardi) and one is a top 4 D (Samberg).
 

surixon

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I still have hope for Perfetti, but his development has been slightly disappointing. As a team that can't rely on bringing in top Free Agents or trading for a lot of top guys (NMCs) we have to do better at the draft/develop than we have the past half of the Jets' existence.

Looking specifically at the first round, there are really 3 "eras" of draft picks for us.

The most recent years 2022-present don't really count since those guys are still just starting to become full time pros and have a crack at the NHL roster.

The first group of picks 2011 up to the first half of 2016 are all the core of our team and top level contributors. Scheifele, Trouba (traded for Pionk + Heinola), Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor were all hits.
Average draft position = 11th overall. Next came Laine 2nd overall, who was turned into Vilardi, Iafallo, and Kupari as well as another 2nd rd pick in the too early to call category. These were still wins and acceptable outcomes from the prospects' values and the resulting trades we recouped.

2011 - 7th Overall - Mark Scheifele - Hit
2012 - 9th Overall - Jacob Trouba - Hit
2013 - 13th Overall - Josh Morrissey - Hit
2014 - 9th Overall - Nikolaj Ehlers - Hit
2015 - 17th Overall - Kyle Connor - Hit
2015 - 25th Overall - Jack Roslovic - Hit?
2016 - 2nd Overall - Patrik Laine - Hit

The real let down has begun at everyone's favourite Stanley as the 2nd 1st rounder of 2016 and everyone else up until the 2022 draft.

2016 - 18th Overall - Logan Stanley - Miss
2017 - 24th Overall - Kristian Vesalainen - Miss
2018 - No First Round Pick (Stastny)
2019 - 20th Overall - Ville Heinola - Miss
2020 - 10th Overall - Cole Perfetti - Hit (but jury is still out)
2021 - 18th Overall - Chaz Lucius - Miss

Thats 5 picks made that resulted in 1 NHL player (Perfetti). Granted the average draft spot is way down for those at 18th overall, but for basically being the middle of the 1st round on average, we need to have at least 2-3 of those picks cash in in our market, or at the very least be tradeable prospect assets to make solid returns like Laine and Trouba.

If Perfetti "hits" as a solid middle 6er that's great, but the root of the Jets' lack of oomph to get over the hump in the first round - aside from a lot of draft capital burnt on rentals to varying success - is that after our first handful of drafts our 1st round drafting and developing has been abysmal. Perfetti still has a chance to be a success story in the middle of that, but he needs to show more and has even more pressure to succeed on him given the void of talent we've drafted in years all around him.

Things even out over time. No team continually exceeds their draft position like we did the first handful of drafts. I'd consider what has happened since as just simple regression to the mean.

Even still as @KingBogo indicated we have still found a collection starters over that time period.

Perfetti is already a quality middle 6 player and imo has room to grow into a quality top 6 player. Also he's really the first top 6 player who we've integrated on a contending/playoff caliber team with a lot of established forward depth to compete against. All the other young players you mentioned had little in the way of competition when they made it. KC for instance went right to the top line. Laine right to the top pp unit etc.

I look at JoMo as a comparable for Cole in terms of development arcs. He was behind established vets and for top pairing and top pp unit usage so his point totals his first few years where depressed. It's only the last 5 years in his mid to late 20's where he's gotten prime usage and looks like a superstar the last 3 plus.

I expect Cole to develop similarly. He's currently blocked by better and more established players from prime offensive situations and as such his point totals are a bit depressed, but like JoMo he's building a sound defensive base and off the puck game while putting up solid secondary point totals. My guess is in a few years when some of those top positions open like they did for JoMo he'll have the experience and game play to run with it.
 
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voyageur

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On the flip side we have 5 starters from the 2017 and 2018 drafts. Does it matter if you got them with later picks or you obtained them in various ways from other teams? Out of those 5 one is a top 6 winger (Vilardi) and one is a top 4 D (Samberg).
Turning Laine and Roslovic into Dubois and Zhilkin and turning Dubois into Vilardi, Iafallo and Kupari is probably at best a draw, given that Roslovic was going to move on. Trouba for Pionk is a win if Pionk stays here. Heinola is still here too from that trade.

Later round picks like Lowry and Hellebuyck are corner stones so you have to get some of those once in a blue moon. 4th round Copp turned into two picks in the top 55. Maybe it's He and Walton in last year's draft.

Perfetti was in a strong draft class. I think that's the one measurement he'll always face.

The fact he's the youngest player on the team shows how much the Jets value winning after drafting to develop. The last 5 drafts have to net some players for this team to keep going forward, because after Samberg, Perfetti is the next impact player the Jets have and that's a result of the 2 year discrepancy of contention, legitimate contention, and some misses which no organization is exempt from,. Whereas the current team is headed towards significant changes, like 2019, but playoff failures are not the sign of contenders. However 2019 opened up opportunities for Rolsovic, Appleton, Stanley and Samberg within a year or two, and next year should start the process of retooling, with some more prospective youth, at the very least.
 
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Adam da bomb

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Turning Laine and Roslovic into Dubois and Zhilkin and turning Dubois into Vilardi, Iafallo and Kupari is probably at best a draw, given that Roslovic was going to move on. Trouba for Pionk is a win if Pionk stays here. Heinola is still here too from that trade.

Later round picks like Lowry and Hellebuyck are corner stones so you have to get some of those once in a blue moon. 4th round Copp turned into two picks in the top 55. Maybe it's He and Walton in last year's draft.

Perfetti was in a strong draft class. I think that's the one measurement he'll always face.

The fact he's the youngest player on the team shows how much the Jets value winning after drafting to develop. The last 5 drafts have to net some players for this team to keep going forward, because after Samberg, Perfetti is the next impact player the Jets have and that's a result of the 2 year discrepancy of contention, legitimate contention, and some misses which no organization is exempt from,. Whereas the current team is headed towards significant changes, like 2019, but playoff failures are not the sign of contenders. However 2019 opened up opportunities for Rolsovic, Appleton, Stanley and Samberg within a year or two, and next year should start the process of retooling, with some more prospective youth, at the very least.
I take Villardi alone over Laine.
 

DRW204

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Dec 26, 2010
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I still have hope for Perfetti, but his development has been slightly disappointing. As a team that can't rely on bringing in top Free Agents or trading for a lot of top guys (NMCs) we have to do better at the draft/develop than we have the past half of the Jets' existence.

Looking specifically at the first round, there are really 3 "eras" of draft picks for us.

The most recent years 2022-present don't really count since those guys are still just starting to become full time pros and have a crack at the NHL roster.

The first group of picks 2011 up to the first half of 2016 are all the core of our team and top level contributors. Scheifele, Trouba (traded for Pionk + Heinola), Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor were all hits.
Average draft position = 11th overall. Next came Laine 2nd overall, who was turned into Vilardi, Iafallo, and Kupari as well as another 2nd rd pick in the too early to call category. These were still wins and acceptable outcomes from the prospects' values and the resulting trades we recouped.

2011 - 7th Overall - Mark Scheifele - Hit
2012 - 9th Overall - Jacob Trouba - Hit
2013 - 13th Overall - Josh Morrissey - Hit
2014 - 9th Overall - Nikolaj Ehlers - Hit
2015 - 17th Overall - Kyle Connor - Hit
2015 - 25th Overall - Jack Roslovic - Hit?
2016 - 2nd Overall - Patrik Laine - Hit

The real let down has begun at everyone's favourite Stanley as the 2nd 1st rounder of 2016 and everyone else up until the 2022 draft.

2016 - 18th Overall - Logan Stanley - Miss
2017 - 24th Overall - Kristian Vesalainen - Miss
2018 - No First Round Pick (Stastny)
2019 - 20th Overall - Ville Heinola - Miss
2020 - 10th Overall - Cole Perfetti - Hit (but jury is still out)
2021 - 18th Overall - Chaz Lucius - Miss

Thats 5 picks made that resulted in 1 NHL player (Perfetti). Granted the average draft spot is way down for those at 18th overall, but for basically being the middle of the 1st round on average, we need to have at least 2-3 of those picks cash in in our market, or at the very least be tradeable prospect assets to make solid returns like Laine and Trouba.

If Perfetti "hits" as a solid middle 6er that's great, but the root of the Jets' lack of oomph to get over the hump in the first round - aside from a lot of draft capital burnt on rentals to varying success - is that after our first handful of drafts our 1st round drafting and developing has been abysmal. Perfetti still has a chance to be a success story in the middle of that, but he needs to show more and has even more pressure to succeed on him given the void of talent we've drafted in years all around him.
Someone once upon a time did a summary of the Jets drafting - From 2011-2016 the Jets had the 3rd highest average first pick in the league. Higher pick = higher chance of getting a quality player evidently, plus the Jets depth chart was opening up.

Isolate your draft picks into PO team picks (16th-32nd) vs non-PO team (1-15) and the player quality is a big difference evidently.
Just looking at 1sts from pick 16th onward (excluding Barlow): Connor, Roslovic, Stanley, Vesalainen (Samberg a few picks later was a hit though), Heinola, and Lucius. So on the 1sts: one legit top 6er and the rest is a whole lotta meh/replacement talent or worse. I think that's essentially what you can expect (aka Average) for picks in that range over that amount of years.

The Jets usually need to do better than average on drafting since FA and trades aren't typically fruitful... However they have done pretty well in finding trades as of late compared to the early Jets 2.0 days. Vilardi, Nino, DeMelo, and Names (even with his gripes this season) were v good trade acquisitions. I'll say Stastny too a couple years ago. But I'd still they're really have been lacking on the Defensive side in my view, and developing Centers.

I think the Jets have been doing better in trades which offsets some of their draft and develop woes. And when a well-respected player like Dillon was hoping to sign back here, and was displeased that he was not signed earlier by the team, i think that speaks to the progress that the organization has made around the league, and that goodwill may open up more FA or players waiving to come to Winnipeg.

So, in short, I agree the Jets haven't been as good at drafting/develop, their pick quality has changed, and they have found other ways to fill the roster like alot of other nhl teams.

Back to the discussion on this year, the Jets imo need a top 6 upgrade on either Perfetti or Namestnikov. I think you can get by with 1 of them in a top 6 scoring line, but not both.
 
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Adam da bomb

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Why? Vilardi is awful. During his first 4 years in the league he only avg 0.51 pts a game. Obviously never gonna be a top 6 player. 🤫
And Laine’s best years were his first 2 so it’s good we kept him for those and swapped him for another piece at the right time just as he was started to turn bad.

I know this is part of a greater point about Perfetti I was just focusing on Laine vs Villardi.
 
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Turning Laine and Roslovic into Dubois and Zhilkin and turning Dubois into Vilardi, Iafallo and Kupari is probably at best a draw, given that Roslovic was going to move on. Trouba for Pionk is a win if Pionk stays here. Heinola is still here too from that trade.

Later round picks like Lowry and Hellebuyck are corner stones so you have to get some of those once in a blue moon. 4th round Copp turned into two picks in the top 55. Maybe it's He and Walton in last year's draft.

Perfetti was in a strong draft class. I think that's the one measurement he'll always face.

The fact he's the youngest player on the team shows how much the Jets value winning after drafting to develop. The last 5 drafts have to net some players for this team to keep going forward, because after Samberg, Perfetti is the next impact player the Jets have and that's a result of the 2 year discrepancy of contention, legitimate contention, and some misses which no organization is exempt from,. Whereas the current team is headed towards significant changes, like 2019, but playoff failures are not the sign of contenders. However 2019 opened up opportunities for Rolsovic, Appleton, Stanley and Samberg within a year or two, and next year should start the process of retooling, with some more prospective youth, at the very least.
Have to disagree with your first statement, no way the Laine trade and then the Dubois trade are considered even in my eyes. And getting Vilardi, Iafallo, Kupari and a 2nd for Dubois is a trade you wouldn't be able to make In the NHL video games because it's so one sided. :laugh:
 
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His last year in LA had indicators he was going to breakout in a big way. He was also hampered by injuries in LA only playing 150 games in 4-years.
Since the trade Dubois has 21 goals in 122 games, Vilardi has 40 goals in 86 games. Iafallo has 17 goals for the Jets .:laugh: Iafallo straight up for Dubois would be a even trade never mind adding Vilardi, Kupari and a 2nd round pick.:laugh:
 

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