Confirmed with Link: [COL / NYR] Chris Bigras Traded For Ryan Graves

[cgf]

There was no typo. All emotions.

We could tell that you were all emotion by the way you refused to acknowledge any facts that didn’t serve your narrative

 

[Puckstop40]

I like Graves. He is really finding his groove here. Definitely came out winners here.

 

[Frenchy]

If we get rid of Zadorov at the expense of this nobody, as I've seen suggested is a possibility on here, I'll hate Joe Sakic even more than I currently do.

you never told us why you hate him

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

I definitely wouldn't call Ryan Graves a top-4 defenseman considering he's 5th amongst Avalanche in ice time despite having the best season imaginable (8 goals, 19 points, +34 in 48 games).

However, he's definitely a strong third pairing guy. Overall he's pretty solid on the PK, he uses his size pretty well, and has some offensive pop. He also skates pretty well considering his size. He's basically what you want out of a third pairing defender.

I'm not sure what his future is with the Avalanche. On one hand, I could see him signing longish term (3-4 year) deal this summer, as Graves himself - who looked like a fringe NHLer/AHLer as recently as five months ago - probably even realizes this is a career year and wants to secure his and his family's future.

On the flip side, I could totally see a team like Edmonton or Toronto looking at his age (25 in May) and his production (8+ goals, insane +/-) and paying a king's ransom.

Is he an RFA or UFA? Something like 4 years at 2 or 2.5 would be a nice.

 

[Avsboy]

They should keep big Z over Gravey. Intangibles.

 

[21]

Graves is a huge surprise for me, very fun and impressive.

 

[Avs9296]

They should keep big Z over Gravey. Intangibles.

f*** no.

 

[The Abusement Park]

They should keep big Z over Gravey. Intangibles.

That’d be pretty dumb.

 

[Avsboy]

That’d be pretty dumb.

Alright, I retract my statement

 

[The Abusement Park]

Alright, I retract my statement

Id love to keep Z, but I just don’t see why you would keep the player that is more expensive and arguably the worse player.

 

[henchman21]

Eh, I think we can amend this now. I think he's a legit 6D.

The defending Stanley Cup champs are using Robert friggin' Bortuzzo as their 6D, and according to analytics, he's the epitome of "replacement level." Graves is surely a more worthwhile player than that idiot.

Late to the party, but yeah. Graves looks like solid bottom pairing guy now. The Avs have done a good job developing his game and he is a solid fit next to Makar. I'm not in the top 4 boat, but he's a fine stopgap. I trust Graves more than I do Cole and Z... but Graves needs to be better on the PK to survive long-term.

 

[S E P H]

you never told us why you hate him

 

[avsfan09]

*fixed your typo

People claimed Barrie could potentially get Norris votes in T.o. Let's not act like it's that one sided. Some of just thought we were better off not paying him 8-9 mill for a guy with his flaws. That gets construed as hate as an easy way to shutdown any opposing opinions.

 

[Tweaky]

People claimed Barrie could potentially get Norris votes in T.o. Let's not act like it's that one sided. Some of just thought we were better off not paying him 8-9 mill for a guy with his flaws. That gets construed as hate as an easy way to shutdown any opposing opinions.

There were a couple that backed Barrie that hard, and there were a couple that wanted him gone no matter the return. Most of us were somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or the other, and the hyper vocal folks on either side made the issue even more polarizing.

Barrie has 8 points in his last 10 games, and 21 in 27 since Babcock was fired (and plus 6 in that time, for those that place any faith in that stat). That is the pace I expected for him, and it works out to a 64 point season...which could be good for a few Norris votes (bearing in mind that they vote for 1-5....some would throw him some 5th place votes) most years, but this year is cray cray for D scoring.

Back on topic...Graves has been a pleasant surprise for me.

 

[Patagonia]

Id love to keep Z, but I just don’t see why you would keep the player that is more expensive and arguably the worse player.

I’m not sure if Z would be worse than Graves, he does have the greater upside. Notwithstanding, he would be more expensive and brings a better return on a trade market.

 

[Frenchy]

meh , i'm sure by now Duchene learned how to fight

 

[UncleRisto]

Is that the middling center that plays for Nashville? The real average one?

 

[RockLobster]

you never told us why you hate him

Because Joe Sakic had the stones to trade a player who had already asked for a trade.

 

[henchman21]

There were a couple that backed Barrie that hard, and there were a couple that wanted him gone no matter the return. Most of us were somewhere in the middle, leaning one way or the other, and the hyper vocal folks on either side made the issue even more polarizing.

Barrie has 8 points in his last 10 games, and 21 in 27 since Babcock was fired (and plus 6 in that time, for those that place any faith in that stat). That is the pace I expected for him, and it works out to a 64 point season...which could be good for a few Norris votes (bearing in mind that they vote for 1-5....some would throw him some 5th place votes) most years, but this year is cray cray for D scoring.

This and I'm the person saying he'd get Norris votes. Turns out I was giving Babcock too much credit on using Barrie. He was so stubborn that it broke Barrie's season before it even began. Since Keefe has taken over, Barrie is tied for 7th in scoring amongst defensemen and is doing so in less game and anybody above him sans Carlson (who has also played 27 games). In a big media market and hype a 60+ point season would end up with Norris votes. If Barrie ended with 65 points like was expected, there would be a different tune around him. Even with the Babcock disaster Barrie sits 20th in defensemen scoring. He's been climbing at a high rate, I'd say he's going to be pushing top 10 still even with that start.

 

[cgf]

This and I'm the person saying he'd get Norris votes. Turns out I was giving Babcock too much credit on using Barrie. He was so stubborn that it broke Barrie's season before it even began. Since Keefe has taken over, Barrie is tied for 7th in scoring amongst defensemen and is doing so in less game and anybody above him sans Carlson (who has also played 27 games). In a big media market and hype a 60+ point season would end up with Norris votes. If Barrie ended with 65 points like was expected, there would be a different tune around him. Even with the Babcock disaster Barrie sits 20th in defensemen scoring. He's been climbing at a high rate, I'd say he's going to be pushing top 10 still even with that start.

Unpossible. I was told repeatedly about how terrible he was (before Babcock was fired) and that the preceding 6 years had just been a fluke.

 

[The Abusement Park]

People claimed Barrie could potentially get Norris votes in T.o. Let's not act like it's that one sided. Some of just thought we were better off not paying him 8-9 mill for a guy with his flaws. That gets construed as hate as an easy way to shutdown any opposing opinions.

And yet he’s still top 20 in dman scoring and pacing for ~50pts. Even after coaching completely tanked his first half of the season.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Unpossible. I was told repeatedly about how terrible he was (before Babcock was fired) and that the preceding 6 years had just been a fluke.

Links?

There might be some people that said he sucked before Babcock got fired but in their defense they were right regardless if it was Babcock's fault or not (which it was obviously) but I don't remember anybody saying that the previous 6 years were fluke.

You are doing the same thing that one poster was doing with MarkT's one comment regarding sending Makar down if he kept having trouble. You were strongly defending MarkT telling the poster he was making stuff up, that MarkT never actually said that. I strongly agreed with you on that by the way. Now you are acting like that poster. You are making up a narrative using something one or maybe a few poster(s) said which was true (that he sucked before Babcock got fired) and adding a completely wrong statement to it to try to look good. Come on cgf, you are better than that.

 

[cgf]

Links?

There might be some people that said he sucked before Babcock got fired but in their defense they were right regardless if it was Babcock's fault or not (which it was obviously) but I don't remember anybody saying that the previous 6 years were fluke.

You are doing the same thing that one poster was doing with MarkT's one comment regarding sending Makar down if he kept having trouble. You were strongly defending MarkT telling the poster he was making stuff up, that MarkT never actually said that. I strongly agreed with you on that by the way. Now you are acting like that poster. You are making up a narrative using something one or maybe a few poster(s) said which was true (that he sucked before Babcock got fired) and adding a completely wrong statement to it to try to look good. Come on cgf, you are better than that.

When I get home from class I'll go to the Barrie trade thread and link you

 

[Trinstin]

Yeah, Sakic will never live that one down for me regardless of the return.

 

[avsfan09]

This and I'm the person saying he'd get Norris votes. Turns out I was giving Babcock too much credit on using Barrie. He was so stubborn that it broke Barrie's season before it even began. Since Keefe has taken over, Barrie is tied for 7th in scoring amongst defensemen and is doing so in less game and anybody above him sans Carlson (who has also played 27 games). In a big media market and hype a 60+ point season would end up with Norris votes. If Barrie ended with 65 points like was expected, there would be a different tune around him. Even with the Babcock disaster Barrie sits 20th in defensemen scoring. He's been climbing at a high rate, I'd say he's going to be pushing top 10 still even with that start.

72 pts barely got Rielly in the top 5 as a significantly better player. I just hated how any trading him talk was wrought with emotion from both sides and it ended up being tribal aha. We're all fans of the same team deluding ourselves our opinion's matter anyways.