Coaching is a serious problem.

[Rapala]

Not to single you out, but we're 3-1-1 in the last 5 despite all the negativity. The reality isn't as bleak as the perception.

There's a ton of work to do but the sky isn't falling.

As always, (much to the chagrin of this thread) patience remains the key. Rebuilds aren't for the squeamish, panicking is the last thing we should be doing.

Yeah those -1-1 games were mostly horrific but we did play well against Edmonton.
This team desperately needs to put a winning streak together before the end of December.

 

[teamfirst]

Habs killed their offense to get their team defense working. I'm not sure why people around here are surprised about that.

They seems to be slowly ramping up offensive 5v5 adjustements to get offense going without destroying their team defense.

What is surprising is that the same people who where saying that MSL was good for the rebuild beceause he would never do that are now using that to defend him.......but is it really surprising.

Slowly being the key word here, dont forget that just 2 days ago they manage to get only 13 shots on net against Utha powerhouse.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Habs killed their offense to get their team defense working. I'm not sure why people around here are surprised about that.

They seems to be slowly ramping up offensive 5v5 adjustements to get offense going without destroying their team defense.

Yeah but the offense has been missing in action even before that. I don't know what's wrong with this team but nobody is as good as they were. CC's pacing for 48 but his underlying numbers aren't anywhere near what they were. I can't see him maintaining that if he keeps playing like that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah those -1-1 games were mostly horrific but we did play well against Edmonton.
This team desperately needs to put a winning streak together before the end of December.

It's been a weird year. Terrible start and almost immediately went on a six game losing skid. Then we turn it around, play some good hockey. We have our most complete game of the year and follow it up with two clunkers....

I said we'd be consistently inconsistent this year and that's coming to fruition. But I expected much better scoring. I'd rather that get on track than the defense.

 

[morhilane]

What is surprising is that the same people who where saying that MSL was good for the rebuild beceause he would never do that are now using that to defend him.......but is it really surprising.

Slowly being the key word here, dont forget that just 2 days ago they manage to get only 13 shots on net against Utha powerhouse.

Killing the offense? That's what happened because MSL works in stage, he doesn't try to fix everything at the same time.

MSL said it early in the season, they worked on special units first (in pre-season). Then the 5v5 defense was way too awful, so they focused on that during practices. The last practice before the Vegas game last Saturday was the first time they worked on 5v5 offense since the season started.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Killing the offense? That's what happened because MSL works in stage, he doesn't try to fix everything at the same time.

MSL said it early in the season, they worked on special units first (in pre-season). Then the 5v5 defense was way too awful, so they focused on that during practices. The last practice before the Vegas game last Saturday was the first time they worked on 5v5 offense since the season started.

The offense was pretty dead all year though. Well before we made those defensive corrections.

 

[morhilane]

The offense was pretty dead all year though. Well before we made those defensive corrections.

Since November started, Habs had 2 games above 25 shots in November. In October, there was 6 games. And the team went from 22nd (oct) to 31st (nov) in shot attempts between the two months. So there was technically a reduction.

But the reduction in shot attempts didn't really lead to a lot less goals. Both 11 games:
October: 32 GF, 46 GF
November: 30 GF, 36 GF

The Habs defensive focus make them take less perimeter shots (unless it's Matheson love for shin pads!) so it reduced their totals a bit, but high danger chances were barely affected.

And since they barely worked on 5v5 offense structure/transition, that should improve from now on without negatively impacting the D too much. They are getting better at settling into the ozone and taking more shot attemps...they just can't aim at the net much yet.

 

[Kimota]

Think Hughes will be able to put pride and friendship aside and fire MSL?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Think Hughes will be able to put pride and friendship aside and fire MSL?

Not this year. He's going to get leash well into next year when they actually have expectations.

 

[teamfirst]

Killing the offense? That's what happened because MSL works in stage, he doesn't try to fix everything at the same time.

MSL said it early in the season, they worked on special units first (in pre-season). Then the 5v5 defense was way too awful, so they focused on that during practices. The last practice before the Vegas game last Saturday was the first time they worked on 5v5 offense since the season started.

Ya that's kind of scary

 

[morhilane]

Ya that's kind of scary

Last season, US Thankgivings is around when they started working on the PP and PK for the first time...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Since November started, Habs had 2 games above 25 shots in November. In October, there was 6 games. And the team went from 22nd (oct) to 31st (nov) in shot attempts between the two months. So there was technically a reduction.

But the reduction in shot attempts didn't really lead to a lot less goals. Both 11 games:
October: 32 GF, 46 GF
November: 30 GF, 36 GF

The Habs defensive focus make them take less perimeter shots (unless it's Matheson love for shin pads!) so it reduced their totals a bit, but high danger chances were barely affected.

And since they barely worked on 5v5 offense structure/transition, that should improve from now on without negatively impacting the D too much. They are getting better at settling into the ozone and taking more shot attemps...they just can't aim at the net much yet.

The Canadiens analytics have been poor all year long. The fact that we're getting even less shots as we go along is not a good thing.

The fact is that we just don't seem to be able to keep the play in the opposing end very much. It's great that we're capitalizing on the shots we're taking but that's not going to last over the long run.

 

[The Real Timo]

Think Hughes will be able to put pride and friendship aside and fire MSL?

Nope. Not sure how big of friends they are but it's more about admitting he made a huge mistake.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nope. Not sure how big of friends they are but it's more about admitting he made a huge mistake.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[The Real Timo]

Where do you come up with this stuff?

I believe we already had an experience with a coach who had zero coaching experience. That's where. Hiring St Louis was a mistake and a mistake the Hughes isn't in a big hurry to correct. Like I said many times, St Louis has some qualities that are useful to the team but he is not in the right chair and he isn't surrounded with people that can help him either. Team that has so many young players with little experience and clearly can't play the system that he is preaching and doesn't want to change, does not and will not benefit from him being the head coach.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Yeah those -1-1 games were mostly horrific but we did play well against Edmonton.
This team desperately needs to put a winning streak together before the end of December.

IMO the only truly horrific one was the one against Vegas where we got pummeled by a vastly superior larger team. Which quite frankly shouldn't be that surprising, effort should have most definitely been better, but result was expected.

 

[morhilane]

The Canadiens analytics have been poor all year long. The fact that we're getting even less shots as we go along is not a good thing.

The fact is that we just don't seem to be able to keep the play in the opposing end very much. It's great that we're capitalizing on the shots we're taking but that's not going to last over the long run.

I find that the Habs improved their ability to stay in the ozone a lot in the last 10 games personally and that there is still improvements to be done there.

Habs are going to work on their 5v5 offense during practice now that the defensive has stabilized. It should lead to increased chances in the next few weeks.

But the highest average is 33.5 shots per games in the NHL right now (similar to how last season ended, NHL changed how they count shots). That means the Habs need like ~4 more shots per games to be middle of the league in shots per game...which I doubt is what you have mind when you are complaining about lack offense.

And Habs advanced analytics have improved a lots. Especially in their last 10 games.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I find that the Habs improved their ability to stay in the ozone a lot in the last 10 games personally and that there is still improvements to be done there.

Habs are going to work on their 5v5 offense during practice now that the defensive has stabilized. It should lead to increased chances in the next few weeks.

But the highest average is 33.5 shots per games in the NHL right now (similar to how last season ended, NHL changed how they count shots). That means the Habs need like ~4 more shots per games to be middle of the league in shots per game...which I doubt is what you have mind when you are complaining about lack offense.

And Habs advanced analytics have improved a lots. Especially in their last 10 games.

Their D has, I agree. Offensively? I'm not seeing it.

But baby steps I guess.

 

[Canadienna]

I wish people could give some more specifics in their criticisms and solutions to the supposed poor coaching.

People criticize the system, but the details between hybrid, man on man and zone coverage aren't as simple as people on here indicate, and we don't know what the exact ask is from MSL vs what the players are doing.

When I look at this roster, I see a team full of players likely to make mistakes and fail to execute on any gameplan.

I also see a team whose goaltending has fallen back to earth from last year and isn't able to cover as many mistakes.

None of these are things MSL can control. What can he control? We'll ice time for one, and I've been impressed with the ice time and responsibilities he's given young players that deserved it throughout his short time in Montreal.

Overall, it just seems he's being made the sacrificial lamb. He may need to be canned eventually, but I'm under no impression that some dinosaur coach with 15 years of experience would have this roster whipped into shape.

 

[Heffyhoof]

I wish people could give some more specifics in their criticisms and solutions to the supposed poor coaching.

People criticize the system, but the details between hybrid, man on man and zone coverage aren't as simple as people on here indicate, and we don't know what the exact ask is from MSL vs what the players are doing.

When I look at this roster, I see a team full of players likely to make mistakes and fail to execute on any gameplan.

I also see a team whose goaltending has fallen back to earth from last year and isn't able to cover as many mistakes.

None of these are things MSL can control. What can he control? We'll ice time for one, and I've been impressed with the ice time and responsibilities he's given young players that deserved it throughout his short time in Montreal.

Overall, it just seems he's being made the sacrificial lamb. He may need to be canned eventually, but I'm under no impression that some dinosaur coach with 15 years of experience would have this roster whipped into shape.

So if he can't control anything apart from ice time, I had best not see you singing any praises of his should the team or individuals start playing better.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I believe we already had an experience with a coach who had zero coaching experience. That's where. Hiring St Louis was a mistake and a mistake the Hughes isn't in a big hurry to correct. Like I said many times, St Louis has some qualities that are useful to the team but he is not in the right chair and he isn't surrounded with people that can help him either. Team that has so many young players with little experience and clearly can't play the system that he is preaching and doesn't want to change, does not and will not benefit from him being the head coach.

You've been on this guy forever. Now it's ' he won't fire a friend... it's nonsense.

MSL is like any coach. He's got a shelf-life. Yes, it's been a bad year and maybe this is it. But he's also managed to make some corrections over the past ten games as well. We're a quarter into a rough season. If things keep going sideways he'll go just like any other coach will. But Hughes is going to give him a chance to see what he can do. Exactly as you'd expect he would.

 

[Canadienna]

So if he can't control anything apart from ice time,

Oh ho, this isn't what I said.

It does however make an effective strawman of what I said.