Coaching Discussion

[Lord Stan 2020]

Ya he won cups before Detroit! Lol with Montreal and Pittsburgh bowman is probably the best coach of all time someone actually compared cooper to Scotty Bowman lol

The point is even Scotty Bowman's Detroit team choked harder than we have and still ended up winning, i.e. even the God like coach himself didn't automatically get it done like you folks seem to take for granted. This is sport, not science. You don't just plug in a new variable and guarantee success.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Let me speak out of sincerity for a minute. I wanted Joe Maddon fired after 2010. I didn't see a guy who was gonna get it done. 3 year window, didn't win a World Series and we were gonna lose a lot of guys. I grew sick of how unconventional he was. Then 2011 happened and I realized on my own what everyone had been telling me all along in that he was THE best in the game.

It wasn't because he was the kind of guy who was looney enough to put Dan freaking Johnson up on our last out on a hunch. It was because he was the kind of guy who got up on the teams private jet after THE sorriest start I had seen since 2006 and said "I would like to make a toast to the best 1-8 team in baseball" and then we made the playoffs and would have again the next year had we not suffered so many injuries. But for good measure we made it again until the deep as hell AL Champions did us in no different than the Rangers both times in 2010 and 2011. Sure enough ol boy ends the most legendary curse in sports history winning the World Series with the Cubs

I learned winning is a mentality.

And whatever Cooper does is between him and the boys. I learned to stop questioning success years ago because if a guy who just stands there and chews gum wins at every level he's at USHL, AHL, NHL (possibly this year) then you know what? He gets his teams to win

Jon Cooper is the Tony Dungy for the Tampa Bay lightning. Dungy failed to win the superbowl in tampa and right away they brought Jon Gruden in and even the Bucs players like sapp said there needed to be a change from Tony Dungy. Now Dungy turned around a complete Dumpster fire but ive seen it before he was never winning a super bowl with the bucs ownership knew they needed to make a coaching change to win the superbowl. I can see this with Jon Cooper is he a good coach? yes he is. Is Jon Cooper a nice guy ? Yes he is. Is Jon Cooper going to well in the regular season? yes he is. Is Jon Cooper going to ever win the Stanley Cup for the Tampa Bay lightning ? No he will not. This Roster is really good I don't think we need help at the trade deadline because I think this is the best roster in the NHL! and yet Cooper won't get past the Caps or Penguins in the playoffs. The depth of the rosters for the Caps and Penguins is not even as close to the Lightning for talent level. We also forget the Cooper flaws in 2015 in round one vs a Redwings team on a decline it took 7 games to be the redwings by one goal. Game 7 last year at home coopers team got destroyed at home for a game 7 vs the caps 4-0. in 2017 coopers team missed the playoffs and in 2016 once again the lightning had a 3-2 series lead in the ECF and lost the series just like having a 3-2 series lead vs the Caps in 2018 and lost the series. So if the goal is to hang a divison championship banners or a regular season champions banner then cooper is your guy. Really was there a better way yzerman could have built this roster ? yzerman has done everything possible to put this Allstar roster on the Ice. Now with Cap problems coming the roster is going to have less talent on it ? so you think Cooper will win a cup with less talent on his roster when he has not been able to for the last 3-4 years with a stacked roster ? Just to get under the cap next season your losing Stralman to free agency!, trading one of Miller or Gourde and of course trading or buying out Callahan.

Jon Cooper is the Tony Dungy for the Tampa Bay lightning. Dungy failed to win the superbowl in tampa and right away they brought Jon Gruden in and even the Bucs players like sapp said there needed to be a change from Tony Dungy. Now Dungy turned around a complete Dumpster fire but ive seen it before he was never winning a super bowl with the bucs ownership knew they needed to make a coaching change to win the superbowl. I can see this with Jon Cooper is he a good coach? yes he is. Is Jon Cooper a nice guy ? Yes he is. Is Jon Cooper going to well in the regular season? yes he is. Is Jon Cooper going to ever win the Stanley Cup for the Tampa Bay lightning ? No he will not. This Roster is really good I don't think we need help at the trade deadline because I think this is the best roster in the NHL! and yet Cooper won't get past the Caps or Penguins in the playoffs. The depth of the rosters for the Caps and Penguins is not even as close to the Lightning for talent level. We also forget the Cooper flaws in 2015 in round one vs a Redwings team on a decline it took 7 games to be the redwings by one goal. Game 7 last year at home coopers team got destroyed at home for a game 7 vs the caps 4-0. in 2017 coopers team missed the playoffs and in 2016 once again the lightning had a 3-2 series lead in the ECF and lost the series just like having a 3-2 series lead vs the Caps in 2018 and lost the series. So if the goal is to hang a divison championship banners or a regular season champions banner then cooper is your guy. Really was there a better way yzerman could have built this roster ? yzerman has done everything possible to put this Allstar roster on the Ice. Now with Cap problems coming the roster is going to have less talent on it ? so you think Cooper will win a cup with less talent on his roster when he has not been able to for the last 3-4 years with a stacked roster ? Just to get under the cap next season your losing Stralman to free agency!, trading one of Miller or Gourde and of course trading or buying out Callahan.

The furthest Dungy ever got was to the NFC title game, we kept getting eliminated in the 1st round despite a very healthy roster. Coopers postseason success has been vastly superior to Dungy's, only being eliminated in the 1st round once or missing the cut on the last day due to critical injuries.

I don't think it's an accurate comparison

im gonna cry foul and this thread has BECOME TOTAL craziness..... FIRST AND FOREMOST scottie is the GOAT... maybe john wooden lol.... unreallllllllllllllll
next love the stuff on madden but he had a lot of help even some old timers with multiple championships.... as far as dungy its UNFAIR to say he didnt get a cup cause he never had a friggin quarterback whom could win when it counted jeezus.... and maybe if dilger had been 5 years older for us he might have won here for dungy lol..... they get a quarter back and the rest was history plain and simple.... and also the first st louis game was an atrocity no call was as bad as the new orleans one this year a farce and true black eye on officials.... as far as cooper will he win the CUP you bet your bottoms.... we are taking the cup no matter what whiny people think im shooting at you todd...> am unsure how you became such a person to always be negative on sports team its like you were a cub fan for 70 years jeezus at times haha.... anyway we are going to win the cup ill say it again then this all becomes moot..... VASY will be the difference when it matters and he IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE no matter who we add move etc.. the difference is vasy stealing a couple games and SLAMMING the door on the other team. I would bank on it hes 10 and 0 in regulation with i believe 5 shut outs the day after a loss.... when have you seen a goalie like this? He has TAKEN that next step that I said after we lost to WASHINGTON this is what it would take for us to win it all. I am truly happy. Is cooper perfect NO has he done more good then bad yes...would i fire him if fails this year YES will I have that choice NO... He's here our guy gonna stay... I think we get the cup from vasy's growth and thank god for that...

 

[These Are The Days]

Todd the falling short is accurate but Dungy did in fact win a Super Bowl. Given Jon Cooper's success he will go to the best team available and it's possible he wins a Cup there. That alone makes him Dungy more than any lack of success here. Dungy's teams couldn't score to save their lives with Alstott, Dunn, Keyshawn and Brad Johnson and needed arguably one of the greatest defenses of all time to bail him out to win even the routine division game. And come playoff time we failed miserably.

This is LITERALLY the career of Barry Trotz in Nashville needing Rinne and the defense to do everything only for round 2 to be this huge accomplishment. And then winning a ring with the Peyton Manning of hockey after like 4 years in DC. FFS they had been calling OV a choker like Manning when both were the furthest from the problem.

Winning the Cup is hard. But the good news is we may not have to wait much longer

 

[Todd1a]

Todd the falling short is accurate but Dungy did in fact win a Super Bowl. Given Jon Cooper's success he will go to the best team available and it's possible he wins a Cup there. That alone makes him Dungy more than any lack of success here. Dungy's teams couldn't score to save their lives with Alstott, Dunn, Keyshawn and Brad Johnson and needed arguably one of the greatest defenses of all time to bail him out to win even the routine division game. And come playoff time we failed miserably.

This is LITERALLY the career of Barry Trotz in Nashville needing Rinne and the defense to do everything only for round 2 to be this huge accomplishment. And then winning a ring with the Peyton Manning of hockey after like 4 years in DC. FFS they had been calling OV a choker like Manning when both were the furthest from the problem.

Winning the Cup is hard. But the good news is we may not have to wait much longer

I'm pretty sure peyton manning did not need Tony dungy as manning also won another superbowl without Dungy in Denver.

 

[Todd1a]

im gonna cry foul and this thread has BECOME TOTAL craziness..... FIRST AND FOREMOST scottie is the GOAT... maybe john wooden lol.... unreallllllllllllllll
next love the stuff on madden but he had a lot of help even some old timers with multiple championships.... as far as dungy its UNFAIR to say he didnt get a cup cause he never had a friggin quarterback whom could win when it counted jeezus.... and maybe if dilger had been 5 years older for us he might have won here for dungy lol..... they get a quarter back and the rest was history plain and simple.... and also the first st louis game was an atrocity no call was as bad as the new orleans one this year a farce and true black eye on officials.... as far as cooper will he win the CUP you bet your bottoms.... we are taking the cup no matter what whiny people think im shooting at you todd...> am unsure how you became such a person to always be negative on sports team its like you were a cub fan for 70 years jeezus at times haha.... anyway we are going to win the cup ill say it again then this all becomes moot..... VASY will be the difference when it matters and he IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE no matter who we add move etc.. the difference is vasy stealing a couple games and SLAMMING the door on the other team. I would bank on it hes 10 and 0 in regulation with i believe 5 shut outs the day after a loss.... when have you seen a goalie like this? He has TAKEN that next step that I said after we lost to WASHINGTON this is what it would take for us to win it all. I am truly happy. Is cooper perfect NO has he done more good then bad yes...would i fire him if fails this year YES will I have that choice NO... He's here our guy gonna stay... I think we get the cup from vasy's growth and thank god for that...

not liking Jon Cooper is not me being a negative on sports team! it's me calling out JON COOPER and saying it's time to get it done! but it's sad that I already know he won't because ive read this book before! see the Blackhawks, Penguins and Caps. Robert your prediction we win the cup won't happen you predict we win the cup every season and we never do. I predict We win the cup after cooper is gone in the future.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

not liking Jon Cooper is not me being a negative on sports team! it's me calling out JON COOPER and saying it's time to get it done! but it's sad that I already know he won't because ive read this book before! see the Blackhawks, Penguins and Caps. Robert your prediction we win the cup won't happen you predict we win the cup every season and we never do. I predict We win the cup after cooper is gone in the future.

nope you will just find another coach to hate etc.. its ok todd its who you are... id rename you something like negative annie myself but thats fine...you are passionate but things are never and have never been as bad as you make them out to be except during the ok dummie show


p.s. at this point we have the team and is whose team? vasy's team and he is who has to win the cup not cooper.... nhl is too close the one thing you need is your best player to be your goalie

 

[Todd1a]

nope you will just find another coach to hate etc.. its ok todd its who you are... id rename you something like negative annie myself but thats fine...you are passionate but things are never and have never been as bad as you make them out to be except during the ok dummie show


p.s. at this point we have the team and is whose team? vasy's team and he is who has to win the cup not cooper.... nhl is too close the one thing you need is your best player to be your goalie

No I love cooper he is great and bring back the black jerseys for good kick the blue Toronto ones out! Bring back the black and get the cup like in 2004

 

[LTIR Trickery]

My post wasn't about who I want, it was about who could take this exact team the past few years and bring Stanley home to us. Sullivan was an example. Last time I checked, he has 3 rings with less talent on the team.

Babs has less talent on the team.

Q had less talent on the team.

What I want? Well, now that Boyle is in Smashville, I'm all in for Boyle with Preds. All. In. Aside from that?

I want the cup here in Tampa so the guys who have sacrificed so much to get here ($$$, time, energy, patience - the Stammer, Heddy, Kuch, et al) can get a ring and raise the cup.

I just don't think Cooper can get them there; he is great with the youth, developing them but I do not think, nor see any indication, that he can lead that team and outcoach the others. That said, I do think G6 here in Tampa v Pens was given to the Pens by O'Helleran and I noted that to the NHL. Terribly game called on the ice but to that point, Cooper was out-coaching Sully. But now, Sully has his #, so to speak as does Trotz, as does Babs...

(And yes, I cheered for Boyle against the Bolts last year; and if Smashville v Bolts in SCF? I'm sorry to say but I have Boyle jerseys in my closet from his Rags days along with Bolts and Devs and now Smashville; JBB can kiss my ass and as I told him in March 2017, "Go fly a kite. Preferably in a July thunderstorm.'; Boyle's name on the back of my jersey >>> emblem on the front... until he retires, that will be true)

Alright, I can't take this anymore - less talent?! He has two of the best two centers in f***ing NHL history on that team and surrounded by a number of exceptional others like Guentzel, Kessel, and so on.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I can't believe at this point in the season we're actually having this discussion.

 

[These Are The Days]

I'm pretty sure peyton manning did not need Tony dungy as manning also won another superbowl without Dungy in Denver.

And Ovechkin is liable to win another Cup elsewhere. But that's not the point though. It's taken a near dynasty, our team being decimated by injuries in consecutive seasons and the end of 40+ year voyage for a championship for us to be the Cupless team we are today.

It is not impossible that Cooper is liable to gain his strongest support amongst us ever if Stamkos and Kucherov start well then crap out again late in a series while the rest of the team plays like they are ready to win a Cup. It will single them out.

I could be wrong. He might get burned in effigy here if that happens

Coop is getting slack because unlike guys such as Todd MacLellan, simply changing assistants did little to fix the fact HE was the problem. Hitch's problem is he doesn't have the team he needs to run his system and is failing at it -particularly in the absence of Kelfbom.

 

[These Are The Days]

I can't believe at this point in the season we're actually having this discussion.

Suddenly not having a .800 win percentage after 4 months will get to you. This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[DFC]

Comparing Cooper to the GOAT in Bowman?
Wth?

Bowman had 6 rings before he came to the Joe. Is this post serious? I'm appalled that anyone would even try to compare the two.

Cooper can't hold Scotty's jock or carry his luggage for that matter.

Shocked. Actually, I'm not. Wow. I'm speechless.

And Bowman failed to win a Cup, multiple times, with a pre-cap era team that was better than this Lightning team. Yes, he'd won Cups previously. If Cooper had won a Cup elsewhere, would you give him a pass on not winning one here yet? I somehow doubt that.

Again, the playoffs are hard. They've always been hard. Having the best team on paper doesn't guarantee you anything, nor does having the greatest coach of all time, even if HE has the best team on paper. Even if he has all All Time Great team. There's no way to guarantee yourself a Cup.

 

[These Are The Days]

Once the word of those who lived it and actually saw Bowman coach and win is talked down by those who probably didn't it's time to shut down the thread for a while. This is an entirely different monster unlike nothing we have ever seen

 

[Todd1a]

nope you will just find another coach to hate etc.. its ok todd its who you are... id rename you something like negative annie myself but thats fine...you are passionate but things are never and have never been as bad as you make them out to be except during the ok dummie show


p.s. at this point we have the team and is whose team? vasy's team and he is who has to win the cup not cooper.... nhl is too close the one thing you need is your best player to be your goalie

Can I get coach Q to hate on yet for the next 5 years ?

 

[Bolt 45]

Firing Cooper would be playing it safe. We'll never win a Cup unless we fire Cooper and his replacement at the same time.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I can't believe at this point in the season we're actually having this discussion.

This thread is unbelievable. Insanity.

 

[JoVel]

I can't believe at this point in the season we're actually having this discussion.

But did you see how we lost to the Islanders in a regular season game? That should've been the final nail on Cooper's coffin!

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

as I said if was my choice and we fail the cup being a wing fan for 30 some years during their best and worst year even lol stevies first I think.... they fired a hall of fame coach and won with scotty now that hall of fame coach won a cup before scotty did lol.... so yes its hard... was easier before what 2005-2006 when was no cap... now its much harder teams got 2-3 superstars and have trouble being truly deep etc.. and most teams as we have proven cannot have untimely injuries... Back in day a regular goalie could get cups and to me I thought we had chicago cause crawford had been for the most part an average goalie to me... NOT in that series though holtby proved to me how the league is evolving and what it takes to win the cup... pittsburgh benches fleury goes with a kid and he outduels bishop which i never thought possible now stamkos was still injured and wasnt gonna come back and make some dramatic difference unlike this year..

the thing is too many teams are equal now so ya first thing you need is a hell of a goalie vasy checks that and is showing signs of improving and being able at least to me to steal some hard games when it counts... second thing id say scoring difference yes we number 1 I believe without looking at stats by a huge amount third is special teams got to be good if not great in order to get cups in most cases... we are fine there first and probably end of 3rd to 6th in pk... next you need superstars thats for sure a check and at times they got to play better then other teams superstars yep we got that... so far we in good position... now next is the bench meaning coaches etc... can cooper make the right adjustments at the right moments I really havent seen him driving me nutts in playoffs. I dont know what you all watched with washington but i also look up stats and deep stats and graphs we were there in games six and 7 with same work we did almost every game 15 shots in the prime areas nope didnt go in but we had our chances.... cooper has us playing the smart way imho in the playoffs and we have played well.... has always been reasons stamkos pittsburgh and think stralman? mcd washington does anyone think he is same guy we saw last year that would be a big fat NO.... and the worst imho tyler johnson who is leading nhl in scoring and on a frigging tear goes down vs chicago in game two((((( bishop missed at least one game if remember right too damnnnnn that sucked..... next puck luck you kinda get that imho by out working your opponents and shooting pucks from everywhere(so saying this yep coop got to coach at times cause we try to pass the puck into net when we get on a bad stretch lmfao) so he is coaching usually takes more then one day for this team unfortunately to get the message which is HUGE concern for playoffs but what can he do hold a 45 to their heads?? really what is someone going to do differently to get these guys to stop this???? ya so anywho next is still part of it puck luck is not fantasy but you earn it by being dirty and gritty and getting into the tough areas and working on boards etc.. do we do that??? YES this year wayyyyyy more then in past cause you see it in points production on power play and in being a full team with four lines and biggest one is that we see it on HITS which are wayyyyyy up over any year in past at least 5..... so yep that is checked.... So someone explain to me why cooper cant win a cup what is he missing. I get Q might be a better coach but in what area is cooper so weak at he cannot get this team to the cup? Cause I simply do NOT see it myself.... He coaches he draws up plays he switches lines he double shifts guys even cirelli at times much less stammer kuch and point.... what is his glaring weakness? This stuff he got outcoached by trotz??? you got to be F ing kidding me.... HOW so... Did trotz hold us to 4 shots somewhere a game I missed??? nope got 30 like usual..> WE HAD OUR CHANCES fellas sometimes its ok to look into a mirror and said yep we didnt give enough plain and simple was all there but we got to do more... Why we influx young hungry guys each year etc.. why maybe a vet comes in and does nothing.....as has happened in past etc... if coop didnt win the cup this year Id vote for Q yes but that is my personal decision based on detroit past history that worked out is no guarantee its gonna do the job for us lol..... Its harder to get the cup plain and simple...

 

[Todd1a]

Why has cooper never won the Jack Adams ?

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Why has cooper never won the Jack Adams ?

The same reason 88 hasn't picked up a Vezina.

 

[JoVel]

Kucherov hasn't won any trophies either. What a bum.

 

[Todd1a]

Kucherov hasn't won any trophies either. What a bum.

Well that’s gonna change

 

[T REX]

The furthest Dungy ever got was to the NFC title game, we kept getting eliminated in the 1st round despite a very healthy roster. Coopers postseason success has been vastly superior to Dungy's, only being eliminated in the 1st round once or missing the cut on the last day due to critical injuries.

I don't think it's an accurate comparison

Wrong. The comparison is that this is a title level team and cooper cant get over the hump like Dungy. It is totally valid.

 

[T REX]

And Bowman failed to win a Cup, multiple times, with a pre-cap era team that was better than this Lightning team. Yes, he'd won Cups previously. If Cooper had won a Cup elsewhere, would you give him a pass on not winning one here yet? I somehow doubt that.

Again, the playoffs are hard. They've always been hard. Having the best team on paper doesn't guarantee you anything, nor does having the greatest coach of all time, even if HE has the best team on paper. Even if he has all All Time Great team. There's no way to guarantee yourself a Cup.

Wrong. If Cooper already has a cup? Hell yeah he gets more slack. Are you serious? Of course. He hasn't though and that's a problem.

 

[Rschmitz]

Wrong. The comparison is that this is a title level team and cooper cant get over the hump like Dungy. It is totally valid.

...and I just showed why it's different. Being disgruntled with unrealistic expectations is your choice,.

 

[T REX]

...and I just showed why it's different. Being disgruntled with unrealistic expectations is your choice,.

Cool story bro.