Coaching Discussion: Jon Cooper - Part 2

[RMF5630]

We firing Coop now?

We?? One guys opinion. Coop will never be fired. He will be here for as long as he wants, no matter how many first round beat downs we experience. He is a nice guy... Maurice is counting on it.

 

[Hoek]

This is silly. Coop had no problem running tough borderline dirty guys out there for his two cups and has talked about wanting his team to be a blend of the Broad Street Bullies and the Oilers of yesteryear. Blame JBB for not getting him more of those after getting burnt by Jeannot. Coop has plenty to be criticized for and if you want to fire him a case can be made, but it's not because he's some total softie that doesn't want his team to play physical.

 

[RMF5630]

This is silly. Coop had no problem running tough borderline dirty guys out there for his two cups. Blame JBB for not getting him more of those after getting burnt by Jeannot.

His two Cups were not hard hitting teams and one was in a Tournament setting. Like you saw in the Four Nations, he excels in Tourney structure. He would be a great Olympic Coach, Canada would be a F-ing freight train.


Either we need a new Coach or a rebuild. This team does not have the speed or skill to not play FLA's game due to age, size or depth. Look at Kuech and Point (two of our big guns) in the playoffs. Guentzle needs help, Paul is a 3rd liner on EDM or FLA. Cirelli is a 3rd liner, maybe even 4th liner on DAL. Kuech is a playmaker in his older years. We need another top line finisher that is strong enough to go to the net against Ekblad and the FLA D.

Or, we call it a rebuild and start getting the next batch... I have not even talked about our Blue Line. This team is a first round out build, our best players do the most when it means the least. Guentzle is the exeception, the guy is nails.

 

[Coopers Gum]

His two Cups were not hard hitting teams and one was in a Tournament setting. Like you saw in the Four Nations, he excels in Tourney structure. He would be a great Olympic Coach, Canada would be a F-ing freight train.


Either we need a new Coach or a rebuild. This team does not have the speed or skill to not play FLA's game due to age, size or depth. Look at Kuech and Point (two of our big guns) in the playoffs. Guentzle needs help, Paul is a 3rd liner on EDM or FLA. Cirelli is a 3rd liner, maybe even 4th liner on DAL. Kuech is a playmaker in his older years. We need another top line finisher that is strong enough to go to the net against Ekblad and the FLA D.

Or, we call it a rebuild and start getting the next batch... I have not even talked about our Blue Line. This team is a first round out build, our best players do the most when it means the least. Guentzle is the exeception, the guy is nails.

You're listing things the GM is in charge of and blaming / wanting to fire Cooper.

 

[RMF5630]

You're listing things the GM is in charge of and blaming / wanting to fire Cooper.

You are for him, great. I am not. I do not see this team competing against what is out there and the depth of those teams. DAL, EDM, CAR, WAS are all deep, they go 4 lines. We do not. COL seems to be in the same boat, but they are better off on the Blue Line.

 

[Coopers Gum]

You are for him, great. I am not. I do not see this team competing against what is out there and the depth of those teams. DAL, EDM, CAR, WAS are all deep, they go 4 lines. We do not. COL seems to be in the same boat, but they are better off on the Blue Line.

I mean, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this board who disagrees with you. We definitely need to be deeper. Need more size up front, better D, etc.

... but that's not on Jon Cooper.

 

[Stammertime91]

You are for him, great. I am not. I do not see this team competing against what is out there and the depth of those teams. DAL, EDM, CAR, WAS are all deep, they go 4 lines. We do not. COL seems to be in the same boat, but they are better off on the Blue Line.

Pete DeBoer has won what?
Chris Knablauch has won what?
Rod Brind'Amour has won what?
Carbery has won what?

If they are all deep, four lines, why haven't they won? Carbery's team got absolutely ass blasted. Of the remaining three, only Knaublauch sits in a good light because he hasn't choked like the others have. The Canes have never been a legit contender imo under Rod's tenure. DeBoer can't get it done, though I hope he does this year.

You need a lot more to go your way and those teams are built for playoffs better thans ours. That's not on Cooper, thats on Brisebois. Maybe a different coach inspires a 2nd round loss instead of a 1st round loss, but this group of players for Tampa wasn't getting it done.

 

[Soul Assumption]

Finally here is another voice of reason that understands that Cooper needs to go.

 

[RMF5630]

Pete DeBoer has won what?
Chris Knablauch has won what?
Rod Brind'Amour has won what?
Carbery has won what?

If they are all deep, four lines, why haven't they won? Carbery's team got absolutely ass blasted. Of the remaining three, only Knaublauch sits in a good light because he hasn't choked like the others have. The Canes have never been a legit contender imo under Rod's tenure. DeBoer can't get it done, though I hope he does this year.

You need a lot more to go your way and those teams are built for playoffs better thans ours. That's not on Cooper, thats on Brisebois. Maybe a different coach inspires a 2nd round loss instead of a 1st round loss, but this group of players for Tampa wasn't getting it done.

We are not far off. This model has made its run. Time to adapt.

1st round, 2nd round it will be when Cooper faces Maurice. Maurice will give the media platitudes and have his team physically dismantle the Lightning. Cooper will make faces behind the bench. Lightning won't get to play the West or the other skating based teams because FLA is built to beat TB.

Cooper and JBB should go. Put Coop in Lightning HOF, give him a pat on the back and get someone that thinks NHL playoffs and not Euro open ice, nine passes to every shot. FLA will not let you pass like he wants

 

[DFC]

You are for him, great. I am not. I do not see this team competing against what is out there and the depth of those teams. DAL, EDM, CAR, WAS are all deep, they go 4 lines. We do not. COL seems to be in the same boat, but they are better off on the Blue Line.

You're right. We need a new coach to sign and trade for those kinds of depth players.

 

[JTBF81]

Yeah, neither Cooper nor JBB are going anywhere for at least a couple of years. Neither is getting fired,.and the absolute earliest Cooper would be leaving is next summer. That would only be if he wants to leave as well and doesn't extend with the team, not because Vinik or JBB gave him the boot.

JBB will bring in some bottom 6 depth this summer no doubt, and maybe some on the blueline as well. In the end, the players play, and regardless of who he brings in, if Tampa's offensive stars want to phone it in come playoffs like they have the last two years, it'll be another quick exit next season. They're certainly not the only team with this issue, but after the overall improvements this season all around (aside from the power play, statitistoaclly speaking), they were.never going to gut the roster and make sweeping changes because of 3 or 4 poor games against Florida.

JBB needs to continue filling in the supporring cast, and some new voices/coaching philosophies or plans could be good, but the core 10-12,guys seems pretty set for the next couple of seasons, so whether Tampa makes another run or not, that's the group they've got.

 

[RMF5630]

Yeah, neither Cooper nor JBB are going anywhere for at least a couple of years. Neither is getting fired,.and the absolute earliest Cooper would be leaving is next summer. That would only be if he wants to leave as well and doesn't extend with the team, not because Vinik or JBB gave him the boot.

JBB will bring in some bottom 6 depth this summer no doubt, and maybe some on the blueline as well. In the end, the players play, and regardless of who he brings in, if Tampa's offensive stars want to phone it in come playoffs like they have the last two years, it'll be another quick exit next season. They're certainly not the only team with this issue, but after the overall improvements this season all around (aside from the power play, statitistoaclly speaking), they were.never going to gut the roster and make sweeping changes because of 3 or 4 poor games against Florida.

JBB needs to continue filling in the supporring cast, and some new voices/coaching philosophies or plans could be good, but the core 10-12,guys seems pretty set for the next couple of seasons, so whether Tampa makes another run or not, that's the group they've got.

What you end with is the problem, 3 or 4 games against FLA is the litmus test. Everything else you say is moot if we keep getting mugged by FLA. The path to the cup goes through Sunrise, not Tampa. If leadership is viewing those losses as it is just 4 games we do poorly we are screwed.

 

[JTBF81]

What you end with is the problem, 3 or 4 games against FLA is the litmus test. Everything else you say is moot if we keep getting mugged by FLA. The path to the cup goes through Sunrise, not Tampa. If leadership is viewing those losses as it is just 4 games we do poorly we are screwed.

Management isn't blowing the team up or making radical coaching changes because 6 of Tampa's best offensive players had a bad stretch, and several dealt with injuries. They were 4 minutes from a 2-2 series,.and they missed 2 or 3 chances in game 2 that they usually convert. Two games were worse, but ghey weren't that far off. It's certainly not a situation where you remove the head coach or GM, nor start blowing up core pieces because you failed to convert and hold a lead against another good team. JBB will add depth, and with any luck, Cooper will devise some new plans with whomever he has as assistants for next year.

 

[RMF5630]

Management isn't blowing the team up or making radical coaching changes because 6 of Tampa's best offensive players had a bad stretch, and several dealt with injuries. They were 4 minutes from a 2-2 series,.and they missed 2 or 3 chances in game 2 that they usually convert. Two games were worse, but ghey weren't that far off. It's certainly not a situation where you remove the head coach or GM, nor start blowing up core pieces because you failed to convert and hold a lead against another good team. JBB will add depth, and with any luck, Cooper will devise some new plans with whomever he has as assistants for next year.

You don't have 6 bad games... The other team shuts you down 6 times they have you. We don't beat FLA, nothing else matters. The current roster configuration ain't working. We better blow up something...

By the way, Maurice loves you and is depending on your view to wjn out.

 

[JTBF81]

You don't have 6 bad games... The other team shits ypou down 6 times they have you. We don't beat FLA, nothing else matters. The current roster configuration ain't working. We better blow up something...

By the way, Maurice love you and us depending on your view to wjn out.

It was two bad games, and no, you dont blow it up after the overall improvement they had this season from just about everyone. What a good team and GM does is add to areas they need to add, which is bottom 6 and blueline depth. I could care less what you think of Maurice's view of my opinion or the team's is. The core is set and JBB should ne able to add a couple more supporting players. It's highly likely none of the top 8 F nor top 4 dmen, nor Cooper for that matter, are going anywhere, and if Tampa fans dont like it, oh well. There are plenty who believe this core group can get it done, and Cooper has shown the ability and willingness to adapt before when needed.

 

[Sky04]

It was two bad games, and no, you dont blow it up after the overall improvement they had this season from just about everyone. What a good team and GM does is add to areas they need to add, which is bottom 6 and blueline depth. I could care less what you think of Maurice's view of my opinion or the team's is. The core is set and JBB should ne able to add a couple more supporting players. It's highly likely none of the top 8 F nor top 4 dmen, nor Cooper for that matter, are going anywhere, and if Tampa fans dont like it, oh well. There are plenty who believe this core group can get it done, and Cooper has shown the ability and willingness to adapt before when needed.

Doesn't matter what you believe when results say otherwise.

 

[RMF5630]

It was two bad games, and no, you dont blow it up after the overall improvement they had this season from just about everyone. What a good team and GM does is add to areas they need to add, which is bottom 6 and blueline depth. I could care less what you think of Maurice's view of my opinion or the team's is. The core is set and JBB should ne able to add a couple more supporting players. It's highly likely none of the top 8 F nor top 4 dmen, nor Cooper for that matter, are going anywhere, and if Tampa fans dont like it, oh well. There are plenty who believe this core group can get it done, and Cooper has shown the ability and willingness to adapt before when needed.

Well, let's mark this for when we exit early next year. If you are not growing, you are dying. The league is changing and we are still playing 2020 hockey. This team needs some big pieces to go with our 1 good line.

 

[JTBF81]

Doesn't matter what you believe when results say otherwise.

Cool, well, unless you can make decisions for the team, what you believe doesn't matter either. All opinions of course unless someone in team management is secretly posting on here. Anyway, one bad series doesn't eliminate the actual improvements the team made throughout the year. Tampa has all the top end talent they need, but when most of them play about as poorly as they did in the playoffs, whether due to injury, lack of fire, just poor effort, whatever the reason, the fact remains the team improved overall from the year before, especially 5v5, defense, and goaltending. Good managers don't blow that up because of two close losses in games 2 and 4 cost them any real chance. JBB has built a strong core, and Tampa can roll 3 talented lines, so hopefully JBB can make the moves this summer so they can roll 4. Whether thats via ufa, lesser trades, or promotion from Syracuse, I guess we'll see.

 

[JTBF81]

Well, let's mark this for when we exit early next year. If you are not growing, you are dying. The league is changing and we are still playing 2020 hockey. This team needs some big pieces to go with our 1 good line.

Lol, one good line. And already assuming another early exit. Yeah, we're done.

 

[Stammertime91]

"It was only two bad games"

Yeah. Gonna have to disagree... 2023, 2024 and 2025 was more than "two bad games." That's called being in denial.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Don't know if it's all on Cooper (it's likely not), but it's not a good sign when Namestnikov and Haydn Fleury are below replacement level in Tampa but then go to Winnipeg and become above average depth players there.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

His two Cups were not hard hitting teams and one was in a Tournament setting. Like you saw in the Four Nations, he excels in Tourney structure. He would be a great Olympic Coach, Canada would be a F-ing freight train.


Either we need a new Coach or a rebuild. This team does not have the speed or skill to not play FLA's game due to age, size or depth. Look at Kuech and Point (two of our big guns) in the playoffs. Guentzle needs help, Paul is a 3rd liner on EDM or FLA. Cirelli is a 3rd liner, maybe even 4th liner on DAL. Kuech is a playmaker in his older years. We need another top line finisher that is strong enough to go to the net against Ekblad and the FLA D.

Or, we call it a rebuild and start getting the next batch... I have not even talked about our Blue Line. This team is a first round out build, our best players do the most when it means the least. Guentzle is the exeception, the guy is nails.

lmao

 

[JTBF81]

"It was only two bad games"

Yeah. Gonna have to disagree... 2023, 2024 and 2025 was more than "two bad games." That's called being in denial.

I was only talking about this season in all of my recent posts. Thanks for trying though.

 

[Stammertime91]

I was only talking about this season in all of my recent posts. Thanks for trying though.

You've consistently downplayed the previous runs too, though.

Thanks I appreciate being right

 

[JTBF81]

You've consistently downplayed the previous runs too, though.

Thanks I appreciate being right

No, you brought up completely different talking points to try and make a pitiful jab. Since reading or following the current discussion over the performance of this year's team seemed difficult for you, I decided to clear that up. You're right about nothing.. Better luck next time.