Coach Discussion: Warsofsky

[tiburon12]

I mean, its hard to argue, as he didn't produce. I would point out that he did have some rough puck luck, as he missed at least 2 or 3 Grade A's and was clearly fighting it the whole time after he got back in the lineup and that continued to the Cuda until recently. And like I said, I don't see him as an NHL'er in the future anyway....but there are so many guys who are egregiously worse w/ less skill and now we're at the point in the season where it's time to make chnages and get longer looks on guys like him who have decisions upcoming. Though I will admit that this is moreso on management than Warso himself.

Perhaps that rough puck luck was a result of just being on a bad team. Assuming you play/played hockey, we all know those guys who just seemingly get every 50/50 puck, or somehow still can accept a pass despite a D deflecting it. At some point you realize it's not luck and those players are just better.

I also agree that there are dudes who should be getting a shot, and maybe they will at this stage of the season. BUT, i also think protecting them from the Tire Fire AND getting the cuda to roll has benefits. Look at Washington letting their guys mature and kick ass and win in the AHL. Maybe there is something there too, but we should definitely be giving guys more NHL looks moving forward.

 

[HockeyScout1425]

I want to address this one point...I'm general, this isn't a fair one. It's the NHL; players need to be mentally tough, especially if he is a marginal talent.

Toughness to me would be pulling out of a bad funk and finding your game again. Would you give up on Will Smith and banish him to the doghouse after his first 10 games? Many were in fact calling for that. The organization ignored all of that, did the right thing, and let him figure it out.

Guschin didn't get that same opportunity. Obviously because hes not as good as Smith, or as touted, or as big,draft pedigree etc... But I would argue that he still deserved a longer look because so many of the other turds they roll w/ are much worse. Guschin was a -2 in his 10 games, so it's not like he was a complete disaster.

 

[Star Platinum]

I disagree fully actually. I think he forced their hand to play him in the opener by out-competing the hired help they brought in. They rewarded a good training camp with a roster spot. He didn't do anything with it so they sent him down again.

I don't think this is anything out of the ordinary, and im really ambivalent about Warso, so this isn't bias.

I actually think they didn't really give him a fair shot. I think they already had in their mind that what he did in the preseason was irrelevant and that he wasn't in their plans regardless.

Think about the case of Kovalenko. First couple of games he gets to play on the top two lines. Don't remember if we had a guy injured at the time and an open spot or not, but he managed to make some decent passes for primary assists. Shortly after that, he got sent to the third line to play with grinders and we haven't really seen any skilled plays out of him since then. You see it as well with Graf, who got a short stint playing with skilled guys and did a few good things and then ended up with grinders and hasn't done anything offensively since.

Your skill guys are never going to be able to show their skill when you pair them with grinders. Maybe they're not as good as the six best skill guys on your roster, but if you put them in a grinding role that they really aren't suited for and then decide that either a) They weren't good enough at the grindy parts of the game or b) They didn't generate enough offense when I put them with grinders, then the fault is on you for playing them in a role they weren't suited for.

Warsofsky so far in his tenure here seems to have an affinity for grinders that a lot of old-school hard nosed coaches of the past have had, which is that if you want to score, you have to earn your way off of a checking line by showing me that you're willing to put your ego aside and show me with effort and grit that you deserve a shot of playing with the good players. I think that is a dumb way to coach.

If they can manage to sign another skilled winger in the offseason, I'd honestly like to see them run a third line of Wennberg/Kovalenko/Zetterlund and see what they could do. It'd sure be a lot better than watching Grundstrom/Dellandrea/Sturm/Kunin/Duehr/Goodrow have zero positive impact offensively or defensively.

 

[tiburon12]

I actually think they didn't really give him a fair shot. I think they already had in their mind that what he did in the preseason was irrelevant and that he wasn't in their plans regardless.

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nh...-william-eklund-opening-night-roster/1790715/

This would suggest otherwise

Think about the case of Kovalenko. First couple of games he gets to play on the top two lines. Don't remember if we had a guy injured at the time and an open spot or not, but he managed to make some decent passes for primary assists. Shortly after that, he got sent to the third line to play with grinders and we haven't really seen any skilled plays out of him since then. You see it as well with Graf, who got a short stint playing with skilled guys and did a few good things and then ended up with grinders and hasn't done anything offensively since.

Your skill guys are never going to be able to show their skill when you pair them with grinders. Maybe they're not as good as the six best skill guys on your roster, but if you put them in a grinding role that they really aren't suited for and then decide that either a) They weren't good enough at the grindy parts of the game or b) They didn't generate enough offense when I put them with grinders, then the fault is on you for playing them in a role they weren't suited for.

That's definitely true, but what is Warso supposed to do? Give Gushchin a 2nd line role over Zetterlund or Granlund, or push Smith, a far more valuable player, to the grind lines for his debut. Rock and Hard Place if you ask me.

Gushchin just didnt do enough AND wasn't important enough to supplant established pros and better prospects in the lineup. That's the reality. It's missing the forest for the trees to think otherwise about the Gus decisions.

Warsofsky so far in his tenure here seems to have an affinity for grinders that a lot of old-school hard nosed coaches of the past have had, which is that if you want to score, you have to earn your way off of a checking line by showing me that you're willing to put your ego aside and show me with effort and grit that you deserve a shot of playing with the good players. I think that is a dumb way to coach.

He is playing the people on the team, a roster Grier loaded with grinders. Warso's job is to win games and develop players. Since winning is challenging, he then needs to make decisions for the long term benefit of the players and the team. He's missed on those a lot, but let's not pretend there is some easy drag and drop solution to line building.

If they can manage to sign another skilled winger in the offseason, I'd honestly like to see them run a third line of Wennberg/Kovalenko/Zetterlund and see what they could do. It'd sure be a lot better than watching Grundstrom/Dellandrea/Sturm/Kunin/Duehr/Goodrow have zero positive impact offensively or defensively.

Me too, i think Zetterlund can be a great 3rd liner if there are scorers above him

 

[Star Platinum]

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nh...-william-eklund-opening-night-roster/1790715/

This would suggest otherwise

Not really:

The lines were, per the Hockey News:

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Granlund-W. Smith-Zetterlund
Kunin-Wennberg-Goodrow
Gushchin-Sturm-Dellandrea

After that game, Celebrini was out, moving Granlund to 1st line center and creating an opening in the Top 6. I don't think he deserved a spot over the other guys, but when Celebrini was out, he deserved a shot.

That said, I don't think we missed out on anything.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

I missed this guys reply. He's not even correct this year anyway. Bordeleau has taken plenty of draws in the A and has played center in games where there's been injuries at various points this season. He was just trying to be a smug know-it-all w/ a gotcha. I readily admit I do not watch every Cuda game but I have seen him play center this year.

Are you still replying to this? Go back and read your first post.

 

[slocal]

Are you still replying to this? Go back and read your first post.

He, umm.... can't

 

[Anomie2029]

We shouldn't be using the 'Protect the players from this shitshow and have success with the Cuda' rationale anymore. McCarthy has made is perfectly clear he is absolutely abhorrent behind the bench. The Cuda have been so bad the last 3 months that they're at risk of falling out of playoffs - and they're in the easiest division!

 

[rekrul]

Sharks Locker Room: Team Is Still Playing Hard for Warsofsky

Before the break, according to Natural Stat Trick, San Jose was surrendering an NHL-worst 31.49 5v5 Shots Per 60. Since the break, the Sharks are giving up just 27.2 5v5 Shots Per 60, 18th in the league.

It’s a small sample size of just five games, but both the eye test and stats suggest San Jose is still listening to their coach.

It’s easy to forget that Warsofsky is a rookie NHL head coach himself, who’s also getting better.


I still see GMMG choosing a unproven coach a big risk for this team. But looks like now the best option is to ride him out and give him and the staff another summer. They have adjusted to limiting the odd man rushes and its their PK that is killing them. Their record still is what it is, their overall performance is not matching the roster talent but getting them to play hard and buy in should be something to build on. Keeping Warsofsky is still a risk, they need to attract UFAs and give their young talent guidance to develop.

 

[Jargon]

I wonder how much Warsofsky has helped the development of Eklund, Smith, Muhk and Graf. The latter two were with the Cuda for a lot of the year but to give credit to Wars, so far, most of our young guys end up doing well despite early speed bumps. He seems quite good as a teacher/motivator.

 

[ChompChomp]

Congratulations to Coach Warsofsky who has now, after 71 games and 11 left, led this team to more points (49) than it earned last season (47) .

The vomit tastes good!

 

[CHALUPA]

Congratulations to Coach Warsofsky who has now, after 71 games and 11 left, led this team to more points (49) than it earned last season (47) .

The vomit tastes good!

Why you vomiting?

 

[ChompChomp]

Why you vomiting?

I'm not vomiting. I'm eating the vomit of Coach "Barfsofsky."

 

[CHALUPA]

I'm not vomiting. I'm eating the vomit of Coach "Barfsofsky."

That feels worse

 

[coooldude]

I was just about to find this thread and bump it. How do people feel today that were frustrated with him earlier in the season? Same, worse, better?

My take hasn't changed. He isn't a bad coach. He's probably replacement level at NHL. He seems to make a lot of adjustments in line with frustrated fans' desires. His OT lineups made perfect sense today and his line combos and system changes have kept us competitive post TDL despite icing half an AHL squad.

Despite the vitriol, I think it's clear that the team has taken a step forward this year and many of the youngsters have as well. If that's due to the roster, then Warso didn't get in the way of that. But I give him and the staff some credit.

 

[karltonian]

I was just about to find this thread and bump it. How do people feel today that were frustrated with him earlier in the season? Same, worse, better?

My take hasn't changed. He isn't a bad coach. He's probably replacement level at NHL. He seems to make a lot of adjustments in line with frustrated fans' desires. His OT lineups made perfect sense today and his line combos and system changes have kept us competitive post TDL despite icing half an AHL squad.

Despite the vitriol, I think it's clear that the team has taken a step forward this year and many of the youngsters have as well. If that's due to the roster, then Warso didn't get in the way of that. But I give him and the staff some credit.

he's improved as the season has gone on, just as the team has.

question, were they able to practice a lot over the 4 nations break? maybe they were able to work on implementing some things.

 

[Star Platinum]

I was just about to find this thread and bump it. How do people feel today that were frustrated with him earlier in the season? Same, worse, better?

My take hasn't changed. He isn't a bad coach. He's probably replacement level at NHL. He seems to make a lot of adjustments in line with frustrated fans' desires. His OT lineups made perfect sense today and his line combos and system changes have kept us competitive post TDL despite icing half an AHL squad.

Despite the vitriol, I think it's clear that the team has taken a step forward this year and many of the youngsters have as well. If that's due to the roster, then Warso didn't get in the way of that. But I give him and the staff some credit.

The team has played noticeably better since the trading deadline IMO. I'm willing to chalk some of that up to adjustments that were talked about being made around that time. Some of it is also due to the improvement over the course of the year by some of our players. Ferraro is definitely playing better than he did at the beginning of the year. I can't remember the last truly brutal giveaway he had - it's been a while. Liljegren strangely seems more solid now as well. All this despite Georgiev being the goalie most of the time.

I'm transitioning back into a holding pattern on Warsofsky. Give him some better talent and let's see if there's an upward trend next year.

 

[Jargon]

All of our important young players, to a tee, have improved over the course of the year. People criticized some levers he pulled with Eklund but Eklund has been an absolute monster the latter half of the season. He’s everywhere, all the time, plays PK, PP, first line with our superstar — his growth has been apparent. Smith, Muhk, Graf (I know the latter two did a lot of play in the AHL but they still have gotten better while in the NHL).

You have to credit Warsofsky for being a good teacher here. He’s also kept the vibes really positive — the group lost a bunch of guys they loved and they’re still smiling and playing for each other.

I also credit him for the strategy change which has improved the team a LOT.

He’s young and still learning obviously, but if you consider the main goal of this season being development — he’s passed with high marks.

 

[OrrNumber4]

All of our important young players, to a tee, have improved over the course of the year. People criticized some levers he pulled with Eklund but Eklund has been an absolute monster the latter half of the season. He’s everywhere, all the time, plays PK, PP, first line with our superstar — his growth has been apparent. Smith, Muhk, Graf (I know the latter two did a lot of play in the AHL but they still have gotten better while in the NHL).

You have to credit Warsofsky for being a good teacher here. He’s also kept the vibes really positive — the group lost a bunch of guys they loved and they’re still smiling and playing for each other.

I also credit him for the strategy change which has improved the team a LOT.

He’s young and still learning obviously, but if you consider the main goal of this season being development — he’s passed with high marks.

These are good points to make. However, I'll also caveat that this is the part of the year where young players naturally look better...the veterans are burnt and/or checked out, while the youngsters playing for spots have the most to lose and typically the most energy.

I want to see how these players carry it into next season. That will be a more significant test of Warsofsky and the development staff.