Coach Discussion: Warsofsky

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I agree with the above, and yet, Detroit got immediately better after hiring McLellan. They are 9-4-1 since he took over. I don't think this means McLellan is a better coach than we thought, it's that Lalonde was terrible.

I think the jury is out on that one. It's quite a well known effect to have a short term bump when a new coach is hired in-season.

Warso' team is all offense and speed.

If you give any coach a roster that only has offense and speed with a tire fire defense + Georgiev, then yeah, they are going to coach to the strengths, as you put it, "all offense and speed."
 
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I've yet to see him develop a player beyond natural talent and natural progression.

He seems to be getting better with Smith, but I do wonder if he's helpful or just a coach the truly elite prospects will overcome but good ones won't.
That's extremely narrow-sighted. The younger players on the team are lottery picks, where they have elite capabilities in some aspects.

If you expect him to turn an undrafted Colin Graf into a top-6 player 50 games into a season is unreasonable.

I would also argue he's handled Smith extremely well. You have to coach younger players in areas they lack to build habits. Remember development days? Yeah, neither do I. He's letting him play through it at this point.

Fans also hyper-focus on what the X's and O's of a coach are but you have to coach personalities and the things we don't see. A rookie head coach and the youngest coach in the league is going to struggle. But I do think it's crazy some people here are hesitant to give him more than one season.
 
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That's extremely narrow-sighted. The younger players on the team are lottery picks, where they have elite capabilities in some aspects.

If you expect him to turn an undrafted Colin Graf into a top-6 player 50 games into a season is unreasonable.

I would also argue he's handled Smith extremely well. You have to coach younger players in areas they lack to build habits. Remember development days? Yeah, neither do I. He's letting him play through it at this point.

Fans also hyper-focus on what the X's and O's of a coach are but you have to coach personalities and the things we don't see. A rookie head coach and the youngest coach in the league is going to struggle. But I do think it's crazy some people here are hesitant to give him more than one season.
Generally speaking, how he has treated Smith is far less successful than letting players play through issues, and he's only done that after the halfway point of the season, that's why it's an improvement.

It's telling that no one has shown anything. When's the last time any of the non-lottery picks had a good game? Jack Thompson?
 
If you expect him to turn an undrafted Colin Graf into a top-6 player 50 games into a season is unreasonable.

I would also argue he's handled Smith extremely well. You have to coach younger players in areas they lack to build habits. Remember development days? Yeah, neither do I. He's letting him play through it at this point.

Good coaching isn’t just throwing a player out there and letting them figure it out; it’s teaching fundamentals like puck protection, positioning, and decision-making. If Smith keeps losing battles in the corners, someone needs to show him how to use his body effectively and make smarter plays under pressure. Ice time is valuable, sure, but without proper guidance, it’s wasted potential.

If you give any coach a roster that only has offense and speed with a tire fire defense + Georgiev, then yeah, they are going to coach to the strengths, as you put it, "all offense and speed."
You can deliberately slow down the game. A good NHL coach should be able to adapt their system to maximize team success, even with a flawed roster. Coaching to strengths doesn’t mean ignoring weaknesses—especially when it comes to defense. Structuring a more defensively responsible system, even if it sacrifices some offensive flash, could help minimize high-danger chances against and take pressure off Georgiev. Great coaches find ways to hide their team’s flaws while still leveraging their strengths, not just leaning entirely into one aspect of the game.
 
One thing I noticed this season is that the Sharks tend to get pinned in their own end a bunch every game. I don't remember last season it was a season to forget, but it seemed like we'd see some improvement this season.
 
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One thing I noticed this season is that the Sharks tend to get pinned in their own end a bunch every game. I don't remember last season it was a season to forget, but it seemed like we'd see some improvement this season.
Oh, it is an improvement--that's how bad it was last season!

That being said, it is a major problem. It's a multifaceted issue, but you can start with the personnel on defense. Basically only Walman and Liljegren are competent puck-movers, and Walman missed a bunch of time recently and doesn't look right after returning, and Lily wasn't with the team at the start. Everyone else in this regard is sub-par, unfortunately.
 
It's really hard to make a comprehensive evaluation of Wario's work after 50 games given the situation

The youngest coach in the league, a rookie, inherited the worst roster in the league coming off a historic tanking season, he has no top pairing D, no established starting caliber goalie, his best player is a child, and the only real veteran additions have been overpaid secondary role players

I don't think we know a ton about how good this coach is, all we really know is that dude LOVES the line blender
Being practical is forbidden on the internet
 
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Tonight, hosting the Stanley Cup Champions, this team is going to play:

Sabourin (AHL lifer player that Grier just called up)
Goodrow (Should be AHL/Euro player that Grier went out and intentionally claimed)
Kunin (Grier trade 3 days after becoming GM and later gave extension to)
Duehr (Grier recent waiver claim, AHL/NHL tweener)
Ferraro
Vlasic
Thrun (Grier trade)
Georgiev (Grier trade)
and Walman-Ceci getting top pairing minutes when, on most teams, they would be middle pairing dmen.

It's not at all a fair assessment of Warso's job when you have this crapfest. Why there are some people don't appreciate that is beyond me. You want to blame the 24-25 Sharks for sucking (which is misguided anyways because this is a rebuild year, not a shoot for playoffs year), blame Grier, not Warso. Grier is still tanking to ensure we get Schaefer. We're not even remotely in a position to assess Warso's job. Frankly, this thread should be locked and reopened in 18 months at the earliest. (and even that checkpoint depends on how many AHLers Grier essentially forces the Sharks to play in 25-26) lol
 
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I don't expect gold, but maybe air out the smell a little bit, maybe some Lysol
I mean, haven’t they done that? This time by games, they lost 21 games by three goals or more. This year, that number is 11. They were really bad last year and they are pretty clearly not so bad while developing some top draft picks.
 
He’s been a mixed bag, when the season started absolute dumpster fire, then after about 12 games you could see some structure coming in and some kind of identity which is a credit to Warso. But for atleast the last month and half they’ve falling off a cliff, and these last 4 games have been especially bad and it’s primarily a coaching problem.
He can preach “learn how to win” all year long but whos job is it to teach them that? Where he is consistently bad at is in game adjustments if his game plan doesn’t work he doesn’t have a plan B. It’ll be interesting to see what the coaching staff will look like next year because the PK is atrocious.
Now for the positive 😂 you’d be lying to yourself if you say he hasn’t gotten Walman and Eklund to the next level. You could also argue he’s getting a lot out of Zetts and Granlund. When the team is playing their game it’s pretty impressive, they seem to overwhelm the mid tier and lower teams and at least compete with some of the upper tier teams. I don’t like how Smith and Askarov have been handled but I blame Grier for that.
It’ll be interesting to see if he’s still here when the team turns the corner, to his credit he’s excelled at every level he’s coached at so barring a massive implosion he’ll probably be coaching the sharks into their return to the playoffs.
 
I mean, haven’t they done that? This time by games, they lost 21 games by three goals or more. This year, that number is 11. They were really bad last year and they are pretty clearly not so bad while developing some top draft picks.
People apparently can't talk about Warsofky's coaching without referencing goal differential.

Even though the team isn't good relative to the rest of the league, the talent level is still significantly higher than last year.
 
It's not at all a fair assessment of Warso's job when you have this crapfest. Why there are some people don't appreciate that is beyond me. You want to blame the 24-25 Sharks for sucking (which is misguided anyways because this is a rebuild year, not a shoot for playoffs year), blame Grier, not Warso. Grier is still tanking to ensure we get Schaefer. We're not even remotely in a position to assess Warso's job. Frankly, this thread should be locked and reopened in 18 months at the earliest. (and even that checkpoint depends on how many AHLers Grier essentially forces the Sharks to play in 25-26) lol
The second I read this, I thought "I'll bet @ChompChomp is the guy who was so excited about the Warsofsky hire that he said he's the next Jon Cooper. Did the search and sure enough, my instincts were right.

Let me save you the 18 month reassessment. Warsofsky is not even remotely in Jon Cooper's league. I don't know whether he's a bad coach or just a fungible OK coach, but he's not an elite coach. And when people create strawmans like "you want to blame the 24-25 Sharks for sucking" when hardly any of us said that the team was going to be anything but bottom of the league, I know I'm not dealing with someone who is approaching the discussion in an intellectually honest way.
 
People apparently can't talk about Warsofky's coaching without referencing goal differential.

Even though the team isn't good relative to the rest of the league, the talent level is still significantly higher than last year.
How else would you like to try and judge his performance?
 
How else would you like to try and judge his performance?
The only way to judge him is whether or not the team is improving and whether or not the team is minimizing the mistakes they were making at the beginning of the season. There's two rookies so it's not like experience is a problem.

But hey at least they're not taking as many too many men penalties.
 
How else would you like to try and judge his performance?
How about the team getting better at getting the puck out of their own end or falling asleep less in their own zone when the trailing forward skates into the zone or less puck watching while on defense while a guy sneaks in the backdoor and gets an easy goal? Those are the benchmarks I'd like to see some level of improvement in. Doing better at the basic things in hockey.
 
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The only way to judge him is whether or not the team is improving and whether or not the team is minimizing the mistakes they were making at the beginning of the season. There's two rookies so it's not like experience is a problem.

But hey at least they're not taking as many too many men penalties.
I feel like if the team results are improving in any degree, that’s good enough for his job as a rookie coach. I don’t know why anyone has any expectations of this team.
 
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I feel like if the team results are improving in any degree, that’s good enough for his job as a rookie coach. I don’t know why anyone has any expectations of this team.
They're 4-19 since Dec 5th. Extrapolate that over a full season and that's a 28 point season. I am pretty sure they've blown as many third period leads as they have wins in that span.

This team is essentially as bad or worse than they were last season, but many here are fixated on the horrific start in 23-24 as the benchmark for how bad we were. They're on pace to give up 25 less goals and score 37 more, which would mean much more if it weren't for the fact that much of last season's debacle was how bad the first 12 games were.

The point is perhaps bringing in a rookie, inexperienced coach to do anything but merely tread water wasn't the best decision. In hindsight keeping Quinn around for another year probably would have been best but I honestly don't think Grier wanted to take the risk of having a real marked improvement.
 
He's very clearly in over his head. But I'm not expecting results for this season.

Next season is a different story. If he doesn't have it figured out by then he's never going to and should be given his walking papers.
 
They're 4-19 since Dec 5th. Extrapolate that over a full season and that's a 28 point season. I am pretty sure they've blown as many third period leads as they have wins in that span.

This team is essentially as bad or worse than they were last season, but many here are fixated on the horrific start in 23-24 as the benchmark for how bad we were. They're on pace to give up 25 less goals and score 37 more, which would mean much more if it weren't for the fact that much of last season's debacle was how bad the first 12 games were.

The point is perhaps bringing in a rookie, inexperienced coach to do anything but merely tread water wasn't the best decision. In hindsight keeping Quinn around for another year probably would have been best but I honestly don't think Grier wanted to take the risk of having a real marked improvement.
What’s wrong with treading water for a coach when you’re in the infant stages of a rebuild? I think some people just don’t have the patience to rebuild. Warsofsky is doing fine. The team is doing fine finding a new core and new identity while staying in last place which is going to do them the most good.
 
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What’s wrong with treading water for a coach when you’re in the infant stages of a rebuild? I think some people just don’t have the patience to rebuild. Warsofsky is doing fine. The team is doing fine finding a new core and new identity while staying in last place which is going to do them the most good.
Nothing wrong with it, but essentially i don't see War as part of the team's future because by the time the team isn't a complete debacle of a shit show he'll be long gone. I imagine that's what happened with Quinn. David wanted to push a little harder to be competitive and Grier wasn't.

From a fan perspective though, regardless of when the official rebuild started, you can understand the impatience many have considering this will be the 6th straight year the team finished 22nd or worst overall and the 5th in 6 they've finished in the bottom 5. It's a hard sell for many casual fans when you bring in and promote the new wave of the team in Celebrini and Smith only to see the team end up worse than the season before. The team is allegedly operating at 80% capacity (which we all know is bull), which is an increase of 1.8%, but those numbers are definitely dwindling in the new year (just off the eye test).
 
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Nothing wrong with it, but essentially i don't see War as part of the team's future because by the time the team isn't a complete debacle of a shit show he'll be long gone. I imagine that's what happened with Quinn. David wanted to push a little harder to be competitive and Grier wasn't.

From a fan perspective though, regardless of when the official rebuild started, you can understand the impatience many have considering this will be the 6th straight year the team finished 22nd or worst overall and the 5th in 6 they've finished in the bottom 5. It's a hard sell for many casual fans when you bring in and promote the new wave of the team in Celebrini and Smith only to see the team end up worse than the season before. The team is allegedly operating at 80% capacity (which we all know is bull), which is an increase of 1.8%, but those numbers are definitely dwindling in the new year (just off the eye test).
Curse on DW for wasting 2021 and 2022.
 
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Nothing wrong with it, but essentially i don't see War as part of the team's future because by the time the team isn't a complete debacle of a shit show he'll be long gone. I imagine that's what happened with Quinn. David wanted to push a little harder to be competitive and Grier wasn't.

From a fan perspective though, regardless of when the official rebuild started, you can understand the impatience many have considering this will be the 6th straight year the team finished 22nd or worst overall and the 5th in 6 they've finished in the bottom 5. It's a hard sell for many casual fans when you bring in and promote the new wave of the team in Celebrini and Smith only to see the team end up worse than the season before. The team is allegedly operating at 80% capacity (which we all know is bull), which is an increase of 1.8%, but those numbers are definitely dwindling in the new year (just off the eye test).
He may not be as teams go through coaches quickly and the Sharks are probably three years away from getting the talent they need to be competitive. I just don’t see a good reason to make a change there. The team is developing in a lot of different ways and most of them are positive. If we’re going to lose, might as well do it with this coach. I don’t see another coach doing anything meaningfully different or better. The guys we’re trying to develop are making strides and getting experience.

The sell for casuals will still be Celebrini and Smith and the new wave. If they’re only going to come around for a playoff team, the team needs to stay patient and build an actual playoff team. We only can do that by building mostly through the draft. We’ve gotten one true building block in Celebrini and three likely building blocks in Askarov, Eklund, and Smith. We need a lot more than that and probably can’t sign them in free agency or get them in a trade.

If this is going to be done, it needs to be done with patience to build depth. It was still always going to be a long road back and we’re still in the early stages. We can’t cheat.
 

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