Disregarding their contracts, how would you currently rank these three forwards from best to worst
Clayton Keller vs Jesper Bratt vs Brandon Hagel
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biturbo19
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Bratt and Keller are both in a pretty different class of player than Hagel to me. They're true play-driving offensive catalyst sort of wingers. Bratt probably slightly ahead of Keller, but he's also had the advantage of playing with much better Centers than Keller. Hagel to me, is much more of a typical complementary winger. A good one, but he's not really the one driving the bus on their line like the other two are capable of.
Skolman
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Who was driving the bus on Hagel's line this year? Didn't he play on the 2nd line for basically the whole year with minimal PP time?
GhostfaceWu
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There is no gap they're interchangeable imo but whoever is on your team is probably going to be your vote.
biturbo19
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He still played a bundle of time with Kucherov on the whole, and those tend to be the minutes where he had the strongest results in terms of GF% and the like. Also just a ton of time with Cirelli, who i'd probably characterize as "driving the bus" on those lines more so than Hagel. Cirelli carries the play more than Hagel. The PP time thing is...not particularly pertinent, so far as i'm concerned. Guys being on the top PP Unit...most teams have their real "superstars" driving the bus there. I don't think not being part of the top PP Unit is really a great indicator of being a key offensive catalyst on the the team.
Though in the aggregate, Hagel is still within the Top-5 in terms of PP TOI/gp for Tampa (regular season and playoffs) and the vast bulk of that is still with the "top unit" guys, so he's still getting his opportunities...just not necessarily driving the thing. Which is something that Bratt and Keller both very clearly do. I'd say Bratt and Keller are both very clearly their respective teams' best offensive player, focal point offensively, and catalyst for most of the offense that happens. I don't think you can put Hagel in that category at all.
Not really a sleight on Hagel per se. He's very good at what he does. I just don't think he's in the same echelon of true "play driving wingers" as the other two. Those other two are just in a very rare elite tier of wingers who impact play in a way that is more typical of centers.
I think Hagel is still underrated. He's probably got more "proving" to do than Bratt or Keller in terms of backing up his offensive production this year - but he was spectacular this season. With apologizes to Bratt, who is fantastic defensively for a 5-10 guy, I also think Hagel with his 6-2 frame and jets is the top defensive guy of the trio. I think he was the best forward in Tampa this year, outside Kucherov...and that's saying something when your team also has Point, Guentzel, etc.
All that said - even if he's the least involved defensively - my mind leans Keller here...I may be in the minority, but I think his last two seasons, considering his support - have been absolutely spectacular from an offensive generation standpoint...and pretty low key underrated mainly because of the team(s) he's on in Phoenix and SLC.
I have time for arguments for all 3 though - this is another good poll like Thomas/Hischier/Suzuki where I think the margins are slim.
All that said - even if he's the least involved defensively - my mind leans Keller here...I may be in the minority, but I think his last two seasons, considering his support - have been absolutely spectacular from an offensive generation standpoint...and pretty low key underrated mainly because of the team(s) he's on in Phoenix and SLC.
I have time for arguments for all 3 though - this is another good poll like Thomas/Hischier/Suzuki where I think the margins are slim.
Leafidelity
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Hagel scored at a better rate away from Kucherov though and both Kuch and Cirelli’s underlying numbers improved with Hagel.
I do think Hagel’s the least talented, but I’d say he’s a strong play driver in terms of possession and chance creation. He’s quite good in transition as well. But he probably can’t create chances out of nothing like the other two
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avocadosmoothie
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Oneiro
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This is about Bratt vs. Keller. Hagel is noise in this poll.
Keller has the more productive seasons but I think Bratt is a more dynamic player who can beat you in many ways and who will improve more at both ends. Both haven't had enough opportunity in the post-season yet.
Keller has the more productive seasons but I think Bratt is a more dynamic player who can beat you in many ways and who will improve more at both ends. Both haven't had enough opportunity in the post-season yet.
Hagel is more than noise in this poll lmao he's one of the best two-way forwards in the league coming off a season where he put up 35 goals, 90 points.
There is no gap but in your NJ fan head, c'mon now.
Sky04
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Answer is Keller here, Bratt just leeches off Hughes and Hagel plays on the 2nd line.
dirtydanglez
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yikes, you didnt watch Hags this year did you?
If you apply the last two categories to the guy in second place it’s roughly 51% for Keller to 49% for Bratt. All three are excellent players but the mass of responders prefer Keller/Bratt over him. Keller and Bratt distinction is somewhat stylistic but also hard to really reconcile since neither guy gets watched too often by fans of other teams. These guys haven’t had big stages in thr playoffs and only some spotty exclusive national games.
Sky04
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So his PPG went down and would've gone further down the more Hughes stayed out, thanks for confirming.
bert
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It was a terrible take on his part. Hagel is a more unique player to me. He brings a physical work rate that is so unique for a player that scores as much as he does. Scores more at 5 on 5 than both of them with worse linemates.
biturbo19
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Oh nice. The "you disagree so you didn't watch player" argument. Cool.
I did watch him...more than i even wanted to tbh because Tampa games are just always on the TV. I just don't see nearly the same play carrying ability as either of the other two guys who absolutely drive everything every time they're on the ice.
biturbo19
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It's like suggesting that Hyman is a play-driving winger. Even apart from McDavey and Drats, i'm sure he'd score a ton because he's very much like Hagel (and i'd add Guentzel) as sort of "elite complementary players". They make everyone around them better. They bring everyone up a level. But they aren't the true catalyst. The linchpin of any given line. They're just fantastic at doing all the right things that help make other better players better and more effective.
Again, it's not a sleight on Hagel. He's a player every team would kill to have. But he's just not in the same class as the guys like Bratt and Keller who are the offensive engine of their respective teams.
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