Player Discussion Claude Giroux

[flyingfingers]

Brad Marchand, who is twice the player Giroux is at this stage, is playing on Florida's 3rd line.

Those who have Giroux penciled in on the 1st line next year and think that makes us remotely close to a contender are out for lunch.

He's cooked. Let him walk and use the money to go after big, physical players that fit the team's identity and make a difference in the playoffs.

Evan Rodrigues is playing on Florida’s 1st line. He didn’t crack 35 pts during the season. Is he a 1st liner?

People are way too obsessed with how lines look on paper. But that’s not how it works. Most teams don’t have six “top six” players. They spread players out across lines.

Carolina has Jackson Blake on their 1st line.
Toronto has Max Pacioretty on their 2nd line.
Winnipeg has Vlad Namestnikov on their 2nd line.

Let’s say Green does this on day 1 of camp:

Tkachuk - Stützle - Zetterlund
Greig - Cozens - Batherson
Perron - Pinto - Giroux

Are we all good?

Also, what big physical top 6 wingers are we signing for 3.5-4.5M?

 

[PlayOn]

Evan Rodrigues is playing on Florida’s 1st line. He didn’t crack 35 pts during the season. Is he a 1st liner?

People are way too obsessed with how lines look on paper. But that’s not how it works. Most teams don’t have six “top six” players. They spread players out across lines.

Carolina has Jackson Blake on their 1st line.
Toronto has Max Pacioretty on their 2nd line.
Winnipeg has Vlad Namestnikov on their 2nd line.

Let’s say Green does this on day 1 of camp:

Tkachuk - Stützle - Zetterlund
Greig - Cozens - Batherson
Perron - Pinto - Giroux

Are we all good?

Also, what big physical top 6 wingers are we signing for 3.5-4.5M?

The reality is we don’t have enough line drivers and that’s why people want to find them. I don’t think you’re getting one by letting Giroux go, so it’s sort of misdirected, but I think that’s where it’s not comparable to Florida, who has an overall terrific top 9.

Our forward lines struggled to find chemistry all year. It got better at the end as Cozens is better offensively at even strength than Norris, but it’s still a work in progress.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

You want to pay Giroux $4 million to be a depth player and you mention no new additions. .So who's you first line RW?
And you want to run the team back with basically the same the same lineup so you are fine being a wildcard team?

Isnt the cap expected to go up 8 million this season? Forsberg is gone. Hamonic is gone. Cousins, Gaudette need new contracts but can walk or sign for very little. THere should be plenty of space for additions if need be. And this is assuming that the Senators can sign a high profile free agent.

 

[NinjaSens]

Salary cap is going up by 7.5 millions next season. Ullmark and Grieg have new deals kicking in and they will earn a combined 5.6 millions more. Throughout the season, we replaced Gregor by Zetterlund upfront and the latter needs to be re-signed and will be more expensive. Kleven also requires a new deal.

The team doesn't have as much cap space as you'd think as keeping our current group of players will be more expensive. If Staios wants breathing room under the cap for potential in season flexibility, it gets tight.

 

[Xspyrit]

Close to where he lives with his family? He lives in Kanata, that's like 5 minutes from the CTC.

I personally consider a 2 hours drive close yes. If he doesn't get an offer from Ottawa (which is very possible considering the cap situation and the need for a Top-6 Winger), I could see him going to Montreal, unless he wants to retire.

Montreal radio. Lol

That whole post. Lol

What is funny about this? That radio already has high success rates. Really huge market, and not just in Montreal.

You guys don't know who Andre Roy is? He played 193 games with Ottawa from 1999 to 2002. I don't know where he lives now but he has a segment on BPM and was talking about this. He heard it from Giroux's close friend. So I was just supporting what Crosside initially reported

These reactions are crazy lol, I was just reporting what I heard. It's not like it was coming from a random fan, I don't see why Andre Roy, who played for the Sens and not Montreal, would invent that. Anyway, it doesn't matter, at this point of Giroux's career there's absolutely no reason to get butthurt about this lol

Leverage. The team knows he wants to be in Ottawa and are offering less than he wants. So put Montreal as a second option to try to get more money.

I'd give 3M base with 1.5M bonus for performance.. 70point+ etc. If he wants 6M+ again then we are probably better off looking at other longer term options.

I said earlier in the season that I would pay Giroux 3.5 for another year and a 3rd line role, 2nd PP, maybe 2nd PK too but I don't consider him an asset much anymore. His presence could be good in the room but the problem is we already have Perron at 4M$ and we desperately need to add a Top-6 forward. I don't think him going somewhere else would be a disaster

 

[Big Muddy]

The reality is we don’t have enough line drivers and that’s why people want to find them. I don’t think you’re getting one by letting Giroux go, so it’s sort of misdirected, but I think that’s where it’s not comparable to Florida, who has an overall terrific top 9.

Our forward lines struggled to find chemistry all year. It got better at the end as Cozens is better offensively at even strength than Norris, but it’s still a work in progress.

I’d love to get a good, 1st line winger that can shoot & score. I think that would help get us to that next level of a top percentile team in the league & improve our 5 v 5 scoring. Having said that, that could be difficult given the paucity of our cap situation this off season.

 

[Cosmix]

The real reason to keep him here is his vet leadership and experience, not so much his skills which are rapidly declining. This means he has to sign for cheap for it to be worth our while. Ideally that would be around $2-3 million/year but it feels like he'll still want $4+ to stick around, in which case it's "sayonara" for me as well.

I agree. If he is good in the dressing room, then the team should sign him to be an assistant coach. I agree he is no longer a top 6 player and in decline. $2M to $3M for a 3rd liner is about right for one year. Tow years from now I do not know what he will be like or worth.

We really need someone else who will make a big difference either offensively (such as a top 6 RW) or defensively (a top 4 RD).

If you combine Perron's salary with Giroux's you get $10.5M which would get a top 6 F, or a top D.

 

[Cosmix]

You cant have no prospects. It just doesnt work even for the stacked and loaded teams. Thats not an option for this organization as a small market team.

They should re-sign Giroux but not if he wants more than 4 million.

We have a limited window of opportunity to get better and become a SC contender. Trading our first round pick in 2025 is one way to help acquire a top F or D.

 

[jbeck5]

...and where are those coming from? There are none in the system. Even if, by some miracle, a diamond in the rough is there, it's years away. Please don't hold your breath. That would be bad for your health and we like you.

Develop them through proper coaching and proper situations is what we would have to do.

I don't think these guys were ever top prospects or top free agents, but these types of guys all put 20-30 goals and 40-75 points.

Guys like McEachern, dackell, arvedson, prospal, white, Schaefer, Smolinski, Kovalev, MacArthur, bondra etc.

Or defense with over 30 points...

Guys like Chara, kravchuk, York, rachunek, pothier, Corvo, preissing, Kuba, Gonchar, etc

Kovalev,Gonchar, bondra are boarderline big names, but they were all well passed their primes and into their mid 30s or late 30s....most were just good smart signings that add to scoring depth and can play a 200 ft game.

They were good trades, good situations, and good signings, but none were superstar top dogs asking for 6+ million.

Maybe if we target a couple 40-50 pts responsibly players for 3-4-5 million rather than going for a couple bigger names...

 

[jbeck5]

You want to pay Giroux $4 million to be a depth player and you mention no new additions. .So who's you first line RW?
And you want to run the team back with basically the same the same lineup so you are fine being a wildcard team?

This is the thing. We actually have to try to increase the ability of the roster. Running it back with some improvements and some declines doesn't turn this team from a wildcard to a cup favourite.

We actually have to bring in important pieces to improve the team.

 

[jbeck5]

Well where are these first line RWs lined up and ready to pluck that are head and shoulders better than what we have internally? Like let’s swap out Giroux for Kucherov, why didn’t we just do that 3 years ago.

So what do other teams do to improve their team?

Do they just sit around making sarcastic comments about how it's impossible to improve the team or do they make a bunch of little moves here and there that improve their team until it's really deep and talented?

 

[Cosmix]

Evan Rodrigues is playing on Florida’s 1st line. He didn’t crack 35 pts during the season. Is he a 1st liner?

People are way too obsessed with how lines look on paper. But that’s not how it works. Most teams don’t have six “top six” players. They spread players out across lines.

Carolina has Jackson Blake on their 1st line.
Toronto has Max Pacioretty on their 2nd line.
Winnipeg has Vlad Namestnikov on their 2nd line.

Let’s say Green does this on day 1 of camp:

Tkachuk - Stützle - Zetterlund
Greig - Cozens - Batherson
Perron - Pinto - Giroux

Are we all good?

Also, what big physical top 6 wingers are we signing for 3.5-4.5M?

My answers to your Qs are:
1. No.
2. None.

We would need to spend at least $8M for a "true" top 6 player who would improve our team. That $8M might utilize the $6.5M previously spent on Giroux plus some of the cap ceiling increase for next season. Maybe we could acquire one via trade using current roster assets, prospects and/or our first round pick in 2025.

 

[Golden_Jet]

My answers to your Qs are:
1. No.
2. None.

We would need to spend at least $8M for a "true" top 6 player who would improve our team. That $8M might utilize the $6.5M previously spent on Giroux plus some of the cap ceiling increase for next season. Maybe we could acquire one via trade using current roster assets, prospects and/or our first round pick in 2025.

You could also look at the cap increase going to pay Ullmark’s , Greig’s and Kleven’s raises.

 

[Cosmix]

The reality is we don’t have enough line drivers and that’s why people want to find them. I don’t think you’re getting one by letting Giroux go, so it’s sort of misdirected, but I think that’s where it’s not comparable to Florida, who has an overall terrific top 9.

Our forward lines struggled to find chemistry all year. It got better at the end as Cozens is better offensively at even strength than Norris, but it’s still a work in progress.

Letting Giroux go frees up $6.5M. Signing Giroux for another year or two could cost up to $5M AAV. What would be the best use of the $6.5M plus the increase in the cap ceiling we have for next season? That is the BIG Q!

 

[Loach]

Develop them through proper coaching and proper situations is what we would have to do.

I don't think these guys were ever top prospects or top free agents, but these types of guys all put 20-30 goals and 40-75 points.

Guys like McEachern, dackell, arvedson, prospal, white, Schaefer, Smolinski, Kovalev, MacArthur, bondra etc.

Or defense with over 30 points...

Guys like Chara, kravchuk, York, rachunek, pothier, Corvo, preissing, Kuba, Gonchar, etc

Kovalev,Gonchar, bondra are boarderline big names, but they were all well passed their primes and into their mid 30s or late 30s....most were just good smart signings that add to scoring depth and can play a 200 ft game.

They were good trades, good situations, and good signings, but none were superstar top dogs asking for 6+ million.

Maybe if we target a couple 40-50 pts responsibly players for 3-4-5 million rather than going for a couple bigger names...

I'll let somebody else deal with this. There is too much.

 

[Cosmix]

You could also look at the cap increase going to pay Ullmark’s , Greig’s and Kleven’s raises.

You forgot some players such as Zetterlund, Giroux, Cousins, Gaudette.

I do look at the cap ceiling and commitments. I track all salaries in a spreadsheet.

Currently we have about $16M in cap space assuming we have all NHL level contract players on the team (includes Sogaard and MacEwen who can be sent to the AHL to add about $1.5M). That includes paying for the White Buyout and the Korpisalo retention. I have $0 for cary-over Bonuses which might be wrong.

We need to sign 4Fs (Giroux, Zetterlund, Cousins & Gaudette OR replacements) to get to 13Fs.

We need to sign 2Ds (Hamonic & Kleven or replacements) to get to 7Ds.

If Sogaard is in the AHL or traded, we need to sign a backup goaltender (Merilainnen perhaps).

It will be very interesting to watch what Staios does to try to improve the team this summer. Draft day and UFA signing days will be the highlites of the summer!

 

[jbeck5]

I'll let somebody else deal with this. There is too much.

Same here. Can somebody else handle this?

 

[JackieDaytona]

So what do other teams do to improve their team?

Do they just sit around making sarcastic comments about how it's impossible to improve the team or do they make a bunch of little moves here and there that improve their team until it's really deep and talented?

What little move improves on what we have available as a top 6 winger? Thats not really a little move, and it’s not really feasible. If it is possible by all means I think they should. But all sarcasm aside, unless we can get a top tier player to come here, we’re better off trying cozens or zetterlund in that top rw spot and keeping G to play on the 3rd line. G is that depth talent that makes this team solid imo.

 

[NinjaSens]

I want to see the Sens take the next step and develop into a true contender as much as anyone here. To reach that status, the forward group has to be better. The boost can come from internal growth or by acquiring a top talent through trade or UFA signing.

Considering the current cap situation and the need to re-sign many players this offseason, I don't think it is possible to land a big fish this summer unless there's another big trade to move salary out.

I believe the following season, 2026-2027, is a better time to go big game hunting for a top forward. Assuming we re-sign Giroux to a 1 year deal at around 4 millions, all three of Perron, Giroux and Jensen will be UFA at season's end. If they are not brought back, that will free up 12M. The salary cap will also increase by 8.5M, giving Staois about 20.5M to work with. There will be only one notable player looking for a raise in Pinto. Assuming Pinto commands an additional 3M on the cap, there could be 17M available to fill 3 roster spots. The cap situation looks good, especially if Yakemchuk is ready.

Last year's opening night roster had Gregor, Gaudette, Hamonic and Forsberg on it. If we land decent bottom 6 C and 3rd pairing D this summer, the depth of the team will be upgraded by having Zetterlund, bottom 6 C, 3rd pairing D and potentially Merilainen instead.

The best strategy to improve the team this offseason might be through improving the depth and continuing to focus on the defense first philosophy. More offense can be added at the deadline or next offseason when there's more money available. Waiting also provides more opportunity to assess what we have in Cozens, Zetterlund and if Pinto or Batherson have an extra gear.