Claude Giroux II: Robin's Revenge

[Beef Invictus]

I did some stuff in the Crosby Thread on the PO board and I thought I'd share my findings here.

I thought I'd check into this. Looks like [Crosby] scored 46 points against playoff teams, and 58 points against non playoff teams. I'm about to do some mathing, but I suspect that's not out of the ordinary.

Other Hart Finalists:

Getzlaf: 37 against PO, 50 against non PO

Giroux: 43 against PO, 43 against non PO

***********************************

Percentage/decimal thing:

Crosby: .79
Getzlaf: .74
Giroux: 1.00 (I calculatored this one out before I realized how sad that is. I think my phone is judging me.)

Hard to call this anything definitive, but compared to one other Hart finalist it does seem normal to produce more against the weaker teams and less against playoff teams.

I'll do a bonus Malkin:

35 against PO teams, 37 against non PO teams, for .95.

So of that group of 4 elite players in 2013-14, only Giroux and Malkin performed as well against playoff teams as they did against non-playoff teams.

Not out of the ordinary I suppose, but it's another area (consistency against strong or weak competition) where you've got two players superior to him this year.

Giroux was consistent against strong teams and weak teams.

 

[Ryker]

I did some stuff in the Crosby Thread on the PO board and I thought I'd share my findings here.

Giroux was consistent against strong teams and weak teams.

Who did you take as a playoff team? The teams that were in those positions when we played them?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who did you take as a playoff team? The teams that were in those positions when we played them?

That's too difficult/I'm too lazy. I went with final contenders. Generally, the top 8 is pretty set for most of the year anyway.

I bet all the Hart finalists lit up Toronto. That was a weird team. Got killed in possession and shooting but stayed in a spot for a long time.

I also didn't account for how many PO teams each team played. With conference crossover there is likely a disparity.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I bet all the Hart finalists lit up Toronto. That was a weird team. Got killed in possession and shooting but stayed in a spot for a long time.

Nope.

Giroux: 3GP 1G 2A 3P
Crosby: 3GP 1G 2A 3P
Getzlaf: 2GP 0G 1A 1P

Giroux's two highest point totals came against Washington & Pittsburgh.
WSH: 5GP 4G 5A 9P
PIT: 5GP 1G 7A 8P

Crosby's two highest point totals came against Tampa Bay & New York Isles.
TB: 3GP 4G 6A 10P
NYI: 4GP 5G 3A 8P

Getzlaf's two highest point totals came against Buffalo & San Jose.
BUF: 2GP 4G 3A 7P
SJ: 5GP 1G 6A 7P

 

[Legion of Gloom]

Interesting stats guys...so does Giroux get the Hart?

 

[Coffe]

Interesting stats guys...so does Giroux get the Hart?

Probably not, I'd guess Crosby gets it.

 

[Funf]

Some blog ran that same stat with the top 30 scorers last season as well, I wish I could find it to share, but I can't... Anyway - same deal. Giroux performed equally against playoff/non-playoff teams last year, and the other top guys all seemed to put up more points against non-playoff teams.

I wonder if it's a motivation thing? I'm sure it's easier to get up to play the Canadiens or something than it is against Buffalo.

Interesting stat.

 

[Ryker]

It seems you guys are missing the fact that Crosby unfortunately still got more points against playoff teams than Giroux.

 

[The Rage Kage]

It seems you guys are missing the fact that Crosby unfortunately still got more points against playoff teams than Giroux.

By a small margin, he only had three more points against playoff teams, he separated from giroux only in teams that didn't make the playoffs.

 

[Ryker]

By a small margin, he only had three more points against playoff teams, he separated from giroux only in teams that didn't make the playoffs.

Yeah, I'm just saying you can't use those stats to show Giroux is superior to Crosby in some regard. Getting 3 A+'s and 3 A's is still better than 6 A's. A sample of a single season is also not enough to make conclusions about consistency, but it's an interesting starting point for Beef who should make a more complete list going all the way back to the beginning of both of their NHL careers

 

[Appleyard]

Some blog ran that same stat with the top 30 scorers last season as well, I wish I could find it to share, but I can't... Anyway - same deal. Giroux performed equally against playoff/non-playoff teams last year, and the other top guys all seemed to put up more points against non-playoff teams.

I wonder if it's a motivation thing? I'm sure it's easier to get up to play the Canadiens or something than it is against Buffalo.

Interesting stat.

Early on in the season I looked at him vs East and West as well vs other top players. (in one of those stupid east vs west discussions... it was not highlighting Giroux, but that some players score higher vs east and some vs west... Giroux was as close to identical as any NHl star at the point I did it! Though now he is better vs the east over his career (like ~.901 vs .915 PPG; on phone so have to do it by memory.)

He is just really a very consistent scorer.

 

[Funf]

Yeah, I'm just saying you can't use those stats to show Giroux is superior to Crosby in some regard. Getting 3 A+'s and 3 A's is still better than 6 A's. A sample of a single season is also not enough to make conclusions about consistency, but it's an interesting starting point for Beef who should make a more complete list going all the way back to the beginning of both of their NHL careers

Not that I'm saying G is better than Crosby, but, it's only 3 points... If you put G on a better team, or give him more talent to play with, I'd imagine he puts up those 3 points. Same goes for his slow start. He could have definitely put up 3 more points if it weren't for that start.

 

[Ryker]

Not that I'm saying G is better than Crosby, but, it's only 3 points... If you put G on a better team, or give him more talent to play with, I'd imagine he puts up those 3 points. Same goes for his slow start. He could have definitely put up 3 more points if it weren't for that start.

You could make the same excuses for Crosby. Giroux slow start, Crosby probably with a slump somewhere in there (because if not, who's more consistent ). It's how it works, no one produces at an even clip all year long. And, yeah, it's only three points, but it's not me who's drawing conclusions from this. It's you guys. I was just pointing out the fact that you can't say Giroux's supposed consistency in terms of the strength of opposition is something that puts him ahead of Crosby in any regard. Consistency for consistency's sake really doesn't do much, and, as an extreme example, someone who scores two points against both strong and weak teams is then also more consistent. But so what, is that a good quality in and of its own? Wouldn't it be better that he put an extra point against the weaker teams and kept two against the stronger ones instead?

 

[Funf]

You could make the same excuses for Crosby. Giroux slow start, Crosby probably with a slump somewhere in there (because if not, who's more consistent ). It's how it works, no one produces at an even clip all year long. And, yeah, it's only three points, but it's not me who's drawing conclusions from this. It's you guys. I was just pointing out the fact that you can't say Giroux's supposed consistency in terms of the strength of opposition is something that puts him ahead of Crosby in any regard. Consistency for consistency's sake really doesn't do much, and, as an extreme example, someone who scores two points against both strong and weak teams is then also more consistent. But so what, is that a good quality in and of its own? Wouldn't it be better that he put an extra point against the weaker teams and kept two against the stronger ones instead?

Again, I don't think anybody is trying to say that Giroux is better than Crosby, and that this is the reason why. It's just an interesting stat because Giroux seems to be an outlier; over the past two seasons at least. It's also lacking context to some degree, so of course people are going to infer different things from it. I think a lot of people, myself included, are hoping it means that G can have a bigger season given the right circumstances.

And honestly, yeah, for my money, Crosby is the most consistent player in the NHL. I vaguely remember looking into this before, but I can't remember any details about what I found. I'll have to look into it some more later.

 

[Ryker]

Again, I don't think anybody is trying to say that Giroux is better than Crosby, and that this is the reason why. It's just an interesting stat because Giroux seems to be an outlier; over the past two seasons at least. It's also lacking context to some degree, so of course people are going to infer different things from it. I think a lot of people, myself included, are hoping it means that G can have a bigger season given the right circumstances.

I agree, it's an interesting statistic, and it would be nice seeing a larger data set with possibly a different determination of what's a "strong" team. I would use what Beef used, but would add recent form and perhaps position in the standings at the point of playing that team, giving different weights to each of those factors. No model can be perfect, of course.

As for the bolded part, it seemed to me Legion of Goon wanted to use those findings as an argument Giroux should get the Hart Trophy.

 

[Phillyfan28]

Just came back from a week in Cancun. G was poolside for a few days with a pretty sexy blonde.

 

[RJ8812*]

Just came back from a week in Cancun. G was poolside for a few days with a pretty sexy blonde.

if it's the same one that was with him in Germany, that's his gf

 

[Phillyfan28]

if it's the same one that was with him in Germany, that's his gf

not sure who that one is. Looked like he was there with a lady and another couple. It's funny because I was telling my buddies that some guy looks like Claude Giroux but they wouldnt know any better. After 2 day of me saying it, some loud mouth kid I met who was from Philly told me it was G after all. I didn't wanna approach like a total fanboy while he was relaxing with his lady, but it was still cool nonetheless.

 

[The Rage Kage]

That's kinda awesome

 

[Byron Bitz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Giroux_(wrestler)

Went to check out G's wiki page and I had a good laugh when i found this. Its gonna be tough to live up to this legend.

 

[Anonymouse]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Giroux_(wrestler)

Went to check out G's wiki page and I had a good laugh when i found this. Its gonna be tough to live up to this legend.

Sorry but our G don't have **** on that guy

 

[RJ8812*]

I bet our Giroux has the same shorts

 

[dingbathero]

Sorry but our G don't have **** on that guy

We need a photoshop of G's head on that guy with skates!

That is awesome.

 

[Embiid]

I bet our Giroux has the same shorts

T-back ....

 

[Tumty]

On a side note, after watching the rangers' suffocating defense hold Crosby and Malkin to a combined 10 pts in 7 games does it lessen the blame on giroux for his performance? Even though he didn't put up huge numbers he was still one of the best forwards during the series and he really has no one to play with with. If Crosby AND Malkin can be shutdown with a supporting cast of Neal, Kunitz, etc shouldn't it not be a suprise that giroux is held in check when he is by himself (with the exception of voracek)?

Lolled at you. So you are saying that Kunitz is better player versus Voracek? and gibbons is better than hartnell? Gimmiii a preik.