Classic Wrestling Discussion (as in non-current): Part II

[bruins309]

Greg Valentine is such an interesting wrestler in retrospect. If you started watching in 1988 or so and had no interest in watching older tapes you would have never known the guy was any good. (ed: Even at a young age, I was a super nerd who rented every wrestling tape I could find so I would see a lot of early to mid 80s stuff that way) I count exactly one memorable Valentine match from 1989 to the end of his WWF run: the '90 Rumble with Ronnie Garvin.

But rewind in his career and you see him working near the top in the Carolinas in the late 70s, then was THE biggest threat to Bob Backlund's reign (in 1982) to the point where they did a "hold up the title at MSG" thing. He was a plausible world champion. Then back to Crockett in '83 for that dog collar match with Piper that was historic. Goes back to WWF and is IC champ and has an all-time feud with Tito Santana with GREAT matches like the steel cage win for Tito in Baltimore to regain the title.

But when he drops the IC title, he gets shunted into the Dream Team and carries THAT for a few years. Not even he could salvage Dino Bravo though, and that's where his career kind of went off the rails.

He should have jumped to Crockett in 1988 because he would have been a fresh matchup for a ton of guys there. Probably would have been a Horseman in lieu of Tully and Arn leaving. That was the story in fall 1988 but he stayed because Vince was determined to keep guys away from the other side...hell, he even signed John Studd just because.

Then as a closing act: Valentine gets a HUGE pop at WM20 when they intro the HOF inductees. Like, bigger than all these guys who were babyfaces, and here's this guy who was 97% heel in his career.

Personal note: He filled in at a 1998 WCW show in Boston against Mongo and I screamed at him to "please retire" and I feel bad about that now. So if youre reading this Hammer....I'm sorry. I was a punk 18 year old then, I knew not what I was saying.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I believe this is the low point you were looking for:

 

[bruins309]

I always loved when Gorilla would poke fun at him with "if they convicted him for being a good singer, they'd be convicting an innocent man!"

Actually, I liked his match with Marcus Bagwell at Beach Blast 92. Kind of a "old guy teaches the youngster a wrestling lesson" kind of match.

 

[Loosie]

Watching IYH 6: Rage in the Cage (Feb. 96)...Yokozuna talks! (and sounds decidedly not Japanese)

 

[Engebretson]

Couldn't find the old DVD thread so I'm putting this here for now. I'm currently watching the Owen documentary.

My favorite part so far: the Hart family talking about Owen putting on "matches" when he was a kid at the Hart house between a stuffed toy monkey and the family cat Heathcliff. Owen would lean into Heathcliff and say "the Monkey's going to win this one so you gotta put him over".

Just visualizing that scenario made me laugh pretty good this morning.

 

[bruins309]

I've been writing up all the old Saturday Night's Main Event shows on the blog and finally hit the end of 1986. When I started, I intended these to be shorter overviews then I end up doing 2,000 words on the November 1986 show.

Fascinating show that was front-loaded like a Luongo contract:

- A Savage-Roberts heel vs heel match for the IC title. The 1991 stuff was more memorable but this planted the seed of "hey, we can turn Jake into a babyface if we want"

- Hogan-Hercules is less interesting to me than the Ventura-Hogan dynamic here. It's almost as if they were setting up something for those two. My theory: perhaps they were thinking Mania 3? Andre was not in the picture and maybe they wanted to capitalize on the real life animosity and Jesse's role in Predator that was coming up. WWF wanted Arnold for Mania 3 as a celeb but couldn't get him.

- Piper was just about as popular here as Hogan.

- The Killer Bees vs the Harts: Very strange how the Harts did get the titles at the Bulldogs insistence even if they were never strongly pushed.

- A strange Koko B. Ware - Nikolai Volkoff match that lasts 3 minutes and sees two finishers, a faster rate than a Rock-Cena match.

I can't wait to do the next two. That March 1987 SNME is the highest rated one they ever did.

 

[BostonBob]

Classic Match - Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat for the US Championship ( 1978 )

This match will be included in the upcoming WWE release: The US Championship - A Legacy of Greatness. It took place in Asheville, North Carolina on September 24, 1978. Andre the Giant is the Special Guest Referee.

 

[bruins309]

Going to check this one out in a little bit.

It's really fun to not only see Andre the Giant before he was terribly hobbled, but also outside the context of WWF or WWWF. And of course this would also be Flair and Steamboat before either really hit their prime.

 

[Kimi]

Yeah, young Andre was insane, so fun to watch. WWF Andre was really broken, which sucks as that's what most people these days see. But if you go back into the 70s it really is amazing to watch.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I've been trying to put together the whole story of the 98 HIAC between Taker and Foley. What was a work and what was a shoot.

My understanding is that the toss of the top was planned but Foley was legit stretchered out (know Vince was out there breaking character)

I assume Foley getting off the stretcher was a shoot by him. The choke slam was planned but the cage wasn't supposed to break and the rush into the ring by officials was real (right?)

What I don't get is how did Taker know that Foley still wanted to keep going while he was still up top as he jumps down and clears the ring?

Rest was the original plan but shorter because foley was badly concussed so Taker walked him through to the finish (tacks were planned)

Anything i miss and how the hell was taker able to stay in character the whole time and not be like "we need to stop"?

Just one of the most insane matches because there is a lot of real **** going on.

 

[Loosie]

I've been trying to put together the whole story of the 98 HIAC between Taker and Foley. What was a work and what was a shoot.

My understanding is that the toss of the top was planned but Foley was legit stretchered out (know Vince was out there breaking character)

I assume Foley getting off the stretcher was a shoot by him. The choke slam was planned but the cage wasn't supposed to break and the rush into the ring by officials was real (right?)

What I don't get is how did Taker know that Foley still wanted to keep going while he was still up top as he jumps down and clears the ring?

Rest was the original plan but shorter because foley was badly concussed so Taker walked him through to the finish (tacks were planned)

Anything i miss and how the hell was taker able to stay in character the whole time and not be like "we need to stop"?

Just one of the most insane matches because there is a lot of real **** going on.

I think you've got it mostly right. As for Taker still going I think Foley signaled somehow, or waited for a sign once he climbed down and started beating on Foley again.

As for staying in character...professionalism on Taker's part. At this point he's been 'In character' for nearly 8 years. This is the guy that didn't like to be seen out of character in public.

 

[bruins309]

Undertaker hurt his foot in the match. You see him favoring one leg when he hops down from the roof of the cage.

When Foley went through the roof, that was not planned. Terry Funk is in the ring and God bless him, calls the audible to get chokeslammed out of his shoes to buy time.

Undertaker is the king of staying in character. It's why everyone has tried to devise ways to make him laugh. That's how the People's Elbow came about....it was Rock's attempt to make Taker laugh, at least originally.

I don't know where the tacks come in, because why would they have them there? It was Funk who told Foley that it would be good if they started the match on the top of the cage, which led to the toss. Foley was probably so concussed and hurt that he figured why not just go over the top here with tacks.

I laugh when I think about how Austin-Kane had to follow this.

BTW: put up a new SNME, covering the 01/03/1987 show. Wrote it during the Super Bowl and you can see my mood change as we get near the end. Poor JordanStaalFan...he's gonna be stuck with that avatar forever now.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Not only did Austin and Kane close that show, but Foley was involved in the finish. Insanity.

I remember watching an interview where Taker said time froze and he was scared as **** as he looked down at Mick after the throw off the cell.

 

[S A W F T*]

Jim Ross did a piece for foxsports.com awhile back on that match.

You can find it by googling Jim Ross fox hell in a cell.

Sorry, on mobile or would link.

 

[Loosie]

If I'm not mistake Foley wrote in his book that he has to watch the match to remember what happened. After the match when they were in the back Foley asked Taker if he use the tacks. to which Taker replied "Mick, look at your arm!"

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Undertaker hurt his foot in the match. You see him favoring one leg when he hops down from the roof of the cage.

When Foley went through the roof, that was not planned. Terry Funk is in the ring and God bless him, calls the audible to get chokeslammed out of his shoes to buy time.

Undertaker is the king of staying in character. It's why everyone has tried to devise ways to make him laugh. That's how the People's Elbow came about....it was Rock's attempt to make Taker laugh, at least originally.

I don't know where the tacks come in, because why would they have them there? It was Funk who told Foley that it would be good if they started the match on the top of the cage, which led to the toss. Foley was probably so concussed and hurt that he figured why not just go over the top here with tacks.

I laugh when I think about how Austin-Kane had to follow this.

BTW: put up a new SNME, covering the 01/03/1987 show. Wrote it during the Super Bowl and you can see my mood change as we get near the end. Poor JordanStaalFan...he's gonna be stuck with that avatar forever now.

The People's Elbow on Taker when he sat up as Rock was about to bring it down is still one of the funniest sequences ever to me.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Not only did Austin and Kane close that show, but Foley was involved in the finish. Insanity.

I remember watching an interview where Taker said time froze and he was scared as **** as he looked down at Mick after the throw off the cell.

I forgot he was in the finish. Dude was a warrior but also legit kind of crazy.

I didn't know Funk called that one audible. Good for him. How they were able to keep things going rather seamlessly while chaos was going on was something else.

 

[Engebretson]

I remember hearing Vince walked up to Mick after the event and said something like "Thank you, but don't ever do that again!"

For some reason, I keep thinking I heard on his documentary that his wife pretty much gave him an ultimatum after that match too.

 

[Loosie]

I remember hearing Vince walked up to Mick after the event and said something like "Thank you, but don't ever do that again!"

For some reason, I keep thinking I heard on his documentary that his wife pretty much gave him an ultimatum after that match too.

I don't think it was an ultimatum, but the stroy is that she cried because he was more or less uninteligable on the phone. I think she had more issue with the "I Quit" match from Rumble 99

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don't think it was an ultimatum, but the stroy is that she cried because he was more or less uninteligable on the phone. I think she had more issue with the "I Quit" match from Rumble 99

Ya I was under the impression the I Quit match was the real line in the sand.

 

[bruins309]

Did some "watch but don't write about" viewing the last couple of days

Starrcade 1992

- Jim Ross practically has an erection during Ron Simmons vs Dr. Death since he can live out his 1980 Orange Bowl fantasies again.

- Maybe I was distracted or something, but I didn't hate Muta-Chono as much as everyone else who ever reviewed the show did. Two Japanese guys fighting it out in Atlanta....kinda novel.

- What a shame that Rick Rude was hurt....that was the forerunner to the injury that ended his career. He was on fire in '92.

- I love Ric Flair and all, but anyone can EASILY make the case that Vader is Sting's greatest opponent. Think of how much better Sting's reign in 1990 might have been had Vader been there.

- Ricky Steamboat is so freaking awesome that he makes Shane Douglas look like a great worker by osmosis.

- Two great matches to end the show, at least before Battlebowl. Nice that Muta didn't have to lose 3 times on Starrcade for the 2nd time in 3 years.

Clash 22 was also mildly interesting. Amused at how Vader beat the hell out of Barbarian for no reason, and this was near the start of that White Castle of Fear nonsense. But it's also got the Hollywood Blonds!

 

[Engebretson]

I don't think it was an ultimatum, but the stroy is that she cried because he was more or less uninteligable on the phone. I think she had more issue with the "I Quit" match from Rumble 99

Yeah. I'm probably confusing the two.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don't think it was an ultimatum, but the stroy is that she cried because he was more or less uninteligable on the phone. I think she had more issue with the "I Quit" match from Rumble 99

He was pissed at Rock for a while after that match too but they thankfully made up.

 

[Loosie]

He was pissed at Rock for a while after that match too but they thankfully made up.

I know he was upset about how hard the first chair shot was. It made him go down and he commented that he's never gone down on a first chair shot....ever, but it was to hard that he couldn't stay on his feet.

I remember watching it live and being uncomfortable by the end of it.

 

[bruins309]

I had to get my mind off not getting a Titus O'Neil match at Wrestlemania 32, so I wrote an epic post about Wrestlemania 3. Like literally emptying the vault of everything I could think of with that card.

http://section309.com/2016/02/11/mania3/

- The one screwup in the Steamboat-Savage match that actually bugs me
- The brilliance of the Danny Davis angle, and how they could have salvaged it better than they did in the aftermath
- Why Bob Uecker might be my favorite celebrity of all time. I swear to God when that guy passes on I am going to be a puddle.
- I covered the build of every match and put a ton of links in as reference. What was fun was seeing stuff like "Dino Bravo attacks Jacques Rougeau at the Pat Patterson brunch". The Francophones from this board will enjoy it even more, I reckon. (I just want Patterson's silver satin jacket. Just take my money)
- Mentioning the build is also the only way Brutus Beefcake's night would make any semblance of sense.