Christian Dvorak vs Jesperi Kotkaniemi

[BLNY]

Who would you rather have

Dvorak - 26 yrs old - 33 pts in 56 games - signed 3 more years @ 4.45M
Kotkaniemi - 21 yrs old - 29 pts in 66 games - signed for 8 more years @ 4.82M

I want to see what Dvorak can do for a full season with MSL before I cast judgement. His production in the second half took a real jump, just like a number of other guys.

 

[Rob Brown]

Neither?

 

[King 88]

Get someone from waivers as 4th liner for min contract instead.

 

[Cold Coffee]

nEiThEr

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Tough call - I went Dvorak because I think the contract is an asset and I think Kotkaniemi's contract is a liability at this point. But maybe Kotkaniemi's play can improve to the point where his contract is an asset.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Tough call - I went Dvorak because I think the contract is an asset and I think Kotkaniemi's contract is a liability at this point. But maybe Kotkaniemi's play can improve to the point where his contract is an asset.

How’s he gonna improve all of a sudden after regressing since his first 40 games rookie season?

His skating sucks

His shot is too slow

At this point it’s safe to say he’s a bust. A bottom 6 player, that’s where his coaches end up putting him.

 

[COHawk]

Honestly I'd probably take Dvorak solely based on term

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Honestly I'd probably take Dvorak solely based on term

Yeah that's the nice thing about Dvorak's contract

How’s he gonna improve all of a sudden after regressing since his first 40 games rookie season?

His skating sucks

His shot is too slow

At this point it’s safe to say he’s a bust. A bottom 6 player, that’s where his coaches end up putting him.

Well, he's 21. Certainly not out of the realm of possibility that he becomes a 40-50 point C. Let's see what happens

 

[bert]

Can I pick neither

I feel this... If Kotkaniemi had a shorter contract it would be alot more attractive.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I still have faith in Kotkaniemi to be a really solid 2nd liner, so him. I think people are being way too reactionary re: KK. Drafted too high and paid too soon but he will mature into a good player.

 

[Natey]

Dvorak and it's not even close. I also think Dvorak's contract is way more tradable as well when we're ready to contend.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Yeah that's the nice thing about Dvorak's contract

Well, he's 21. Certainly not out of the realm of possibility that he becomes a 40-50 point C. Let's see what happens

He’s 21 going on 22 and he’s worse then when he was 18. If he’s your 2nd line center you’re in trouble. The reason he’s not in the top 6 is because he can’t keep up with star players. The whole “he can’t play wing” argument is invalid, playing wing is the easiest position and all centers can do it. The reality is that he’s just not top 6 material, he’s a bottom 6 player and he’s trending downwards.

What’s gonna be the excuse next season when his skating and shot release haven’t improved? There’s guys in Junior right now that can skate circles around him without falling and have a quick release. A deadly shot is useless unless you can get it off quickly and you usually gain that skill pretty early on.

 

[Natey]

Kotkaniemi very, very easily. We had Danault and let him walk so they bring in this cadaver Dvorak. Slow, vanilla, so-so defensively, hands of stone but, good in th FO circle. Everything you would want in a player for whom we gave up a 1st AND 2nd rounder smfh.

The Dvorak fanboys were predicting 60-70 points for a guy who's been a career 30-35 pointer

Your math skills are about as good as their predictive skills though.

0.5 PPG player who is fantastic in the faceoff circle. He's not bad defensively either. Very solid middle 6 center.

And that's the problem. Danault is a very good player, but teams with players like him in the #2 C slot usually don't build dynasties. And that's what we want, don't we? A Tampa like team who can compete at the highest level for 5+ years? I like Danault, but he's not that player in the #2 or (here most of the time) the #1 role. In a #3 role, he would be beyond perfect, but he priced himself out of that.

 

[Habano]

Your math skills are about as good as their predictive skills though.

0.5 PPG player who is fantastic in the faceoff circle. He's not bad defensively either. Very solid middle 6 center.

And that's the problem. Danault is a very good player, but teams with players like him in the #2 C slot usually don't build dynasties. And that's what we want, don't we? A Tampa like team who can compete at the highest level for 5+ years? I like Danault, but he's not that player in the #2 or (here most of the time) the #1 role. In a #3 role, he would be beyond perfect, but he priced himself out of that.

You've gotta be kidding right? You're telling me Dvorak is a middle 6 centre and Danault isn't?

So Dvorak who is at 52.4% in the FO circle and .5ppg for his career is fantastic but, Danault at 53.2% and .5+ppg is not a middle 6 centre and priced himself out of here. Let's just neglect the fact that Danault can skate and cover the best players in the league and Dvorak can't.

For 1mil. more we could've kept Danault and our 1st and 2nd round picks over Dvorak.

So buddy, before knocking my math skills, you may want to take off your blinders and analyze your logic skills.

 

[Natey]

You've gotta be kidding right? You're telling me Dvorak is a middle 6 centre and Danault isn't?

So Dvorak who is at 52.4% in the FO circle and .5ppg for his career is fantastic but, Danault at 53.2% and .5+ppg is not a middle 6 centre and priced himself out of here. Let's just neglect the fact that Danault can skate and cover the best players in the league and Dvorak can't.

For 1mil. more we could've kept Danault and our 1st and 2nd round picks over Dvorak.

So buddy, before knocking my math skills, you may want to take off your blinders and analyze your logic skills.

No, I didn't say that all. But way to put words in my mouth lol

Also $1M is a lot when you have so much money tied up on broken down old players and overpaid grinders.

So buddy, stop getting so butthurt over nothing.

 

[Habano]

No, I didn't say that all. But way to put words in my mouth lol

Also $1M is a lot when you have so much money tied up on broken down old players and overpaid grinders.

So buddy, stop getting so butthurt over nothing.

Not trying to put words in your mouth so I apologize if I misinterpreted your post. I do however still think that the extra 1mil. would've been well worth it to keep Danault.

Like you said, with all he overpaid crap that we have, that would have at least been money well spent.

 

[Natey]

Not trying to put words in your mouth so I apologize if I misinterpreted your post. I do however still think that the extra 1mil. would've been well worth it to keep Danault.

Like you said, with all he overpaid crap that we have, that would have at least been money well spent.

No hard feelings. I was just dickish back since your post seemed that way and I didn't want to feel left out.

I don't think either are good #2 centers on a dynasty like team. I like Danault. And at $4M he'd be the perfect #3 center on a team that could contend for the Cup for years and years. Same with Dvorak, although one of your top 2 centers would need to be better defensively if using Dvorak.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

He’s 21 going on 22 and he’s worse then when he was 18. If he’s your 2nd line center you’re in trouble. The reason he’s not in the top 6 is because he can’t keep up with star players. The whole “he can’t play wing” argument is invalid, playing wing is the easiest position and all centers can do it. The reality is that he’s just not top 6 material, he’s a bottom 6 player and he’s trending downwards.

What’s gonna be the excuse next season when his skating and shot release haven’t improved? There’s guys in Junior right now that can skate circles around him without falling and have a quick release. A deadly shot is useless unless you can get it off quickly and you usually gain that skill pretty early on.

I mean, you could be right. I just don't see the rush to definitively say a guy at 21 years old is never going to get better. He's got some potential - statistically forwards tend to peak at 23-24, if Kotkaniemi is a 40-50 point center at that time with his size, he could be ok. If, on the other hand, he gets bypassed by other players and he's having trouble getting into the lineup, obviously he will not be doing very well and nobody will use his age anymore to defend him. So give it 2 more years I say.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

both crap.

Also f*** Dvorak because for the longest time i thought he was related to Radek and recently found out he wasn't. What a bummer.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

I mean, you could be right. I just don't see the rush to definitively say a guy at 21 years old is never going to get better. He's got some potential - statistically forwards tend to peak at 23-24, if Kotkaniemi is a 40-50 point center at that time with his size, he could be ok. If, on the other hand, he gets bypassed by other players and he's having trouble getting into the lineup, obviously he will not be doing very well and nobody will use his age anymore to defend him. So give it 2 more years I say.

I get what you’re saying and it sounds good in theory. But the fact that he’s been regressing every season since he’s 18 doesn’t bode well for him. He’s a bad skater and has a very slow shot release. Not looking good.

both crap.

Also f*** Dvorak because for the longest time i thought he was related to Radek and recently found out he wasn't. What a bummer.

Explain how Dvorak is crap. This should be good

Watch me destroy any argument you make, if you even think you have one.