Salary Cap: Chris MacFarland - Record as Avalanche GM (Updates In First Post)

[Vaslof]

If you judged Kadri as fast as Nelson, Kadri would be just as much of a miss.

 

[Richard88]

If you judged Kadri as fast as Nelson, Kadri would be just as much of a miss.

Kadri wasn't a miss to start with. He had 2g + 2a in his first 6 games. 5g + 3a in his first 12 games (55 point pace).

Nelson has 0g + 2a in his first 6 games. Not great Bob.

Admittedly Kadri had the benefit of a full preseason though. That was an easier transition than joining at the TDL.

Here are the stats for Kadri's first 12 games as an Av:

Nelson:

 

[Vaslof]

Kadri wasn't a miss to start with. He had 2g + 2a in his first 6 games. 5g + 3a in his first 12 games (55 point pace).

Nelson has 0g + 2a in his first 6 games. Not great Bob.

Admittedly Kadri had the benefit of a full preseason though. That was an easier transition than joining at the TDL.

Here are the stats for Kadri's first 12 games as an Av:

View attachment 996040

Nelson:

View attachment 996042

Kadri was generally regarded as a failure for two out of three seasons he played for us. One good playoff run, one bad playoff run, two bad regular season runs. I love Kadri for winning the cup and defeating racism, but truth is that apart from the cup run, most people felt the same about him as about Mittelstadt or now Nelson.

 

[Pokecheque]

Kadri was generally regarded as a failure for two out of three seasons he played for us. One good playoff run, one bad playoff run, two bad regular season runs. I love Kadri for winning the cup and defeating racism, but truth is that apart from the cup run, most people felt the same about him as about Mittelstadt or now Nelson.

I would not say that. He was perfectly good his first year, really bad the second, and damn near elite in the Cup run.

It's gonna be quite something if, in the end, all we could say about MacFarland was that he was never able to replace Nazem Kadri. I certainly didn't see that coming. Sure hope Nelson wakes the f*** up.

 

[Richard88]

Kadri was generally regarded as a failure for two out of three seasons he played for us. One good playoff run, one bad playoff run, two bad regular season runs. I love Kadri for winning the cup and defeating racism, but truth is that apart from the cup run, most people felt the same about him as about Mittelstadt or now Nelson.

Maybe expectations for a 2C need to be tempered a bit?

The standard for us seems to be having Sakic-Forsberg PPG centers at both 1C and 2C in terms of production, but that isn't really realistic.

55-60 points is a pretty good barometer for a 2C league wide. The Avs got that with Kadri. Mittelstadt as well until November. We'll see how Nelson does but he's hovered around those numbers too for most of his career.

 

[shadow1]

Kadri was generally regarded as a failure for two out of three seasons he played for us. One good playoff run, one bad playoff run, two bad regular season runs. I love Kadri for winning the cup and defeating racism, but truth is that apart from the cup run, most people felt the same about him as about Mittelstadt or now Nelson.

That is not true. Kadri scored at a 30g, 58pt pace his first (pandemic shortened) season. He led Colorado in goals (9) in the playoffs and had 18pts in 15gp. For months on end, everyone was posting his reaction to scoring the winning goal against St. Louis in the Bubble. He was beloved.

The complaints were in 2021. They were valid; 24pts in his first 27gp. Then 2g/9pts in his final 31gp. Followed by the suspension.

 

[Pokecheque]

Maybe expectations for a 2C need to be tempered a bit?

The standard for us seems to be having Sakic-Forsberg PPG centers at both 1C and 2C in terms of production, but that isn't really realistic.

55-60 points is a pretty good barometer for a 2C league wide. The Avs got that with Kadri. Mittelstadt as well until November. We'll see how Nelson does but he's hovered around those numbers too for most of his career.

That's fine if he's a 50-60 point guy but if he's not scoring then he needs to do other things to contribute. He's doing NOTHING at present, except being ridiculously easy to knock off pucks and turning it over whenever he does get it on his stick, not taking shots (which is supposedly his specialty), and not really skating either. I'm just at a loss as to why he looks so disengaged. If he's this stunned about leaving Long Island then he should've re-signed.

Again, it's early, but Coyle is readily outplaying him with nowhere near the same talent.

Okay. Rant over. Got that off my chest. Now I'll watch next game and hope he figures it out, and if he doesn't I'll bitch and moan some more.

 

[Vaslof]

That is not true. Kadri scored at a 30g, 58pt pace his first (pandemic shortened) season. He led Colorado in goals (9) in the playoffs and had 18pts in 15gp. For months on end, everyone was posting his reaction to scoring the winning goal against St. Louis in the Bubble. He was beloved.

The complaints were in 2021. They were valid; 24pts in his first 27gp. Then 2g/9pts in his final 31gp. Followed by the suspension.

There is barely a difference in regular season points between the first two seasons. One good game doesn't mean he wasn't still overall considered a failure until his last season. I'm not gonna bother going back searching posts for hate comments. I'll just let you stay in your fantasyland. It's just f***ing annoying reading all these Kadri posts over and over again as if you didn't hate him too.

 

[shadow1]

There is barely a difference in regular season points between the first two seasons. One good game doesn't mean he wasn't still overall considered a failure until his last season. I'm not gonna bother going back searching posts for hate comments. I'll just let you stay in your fantasyland. It's just f***ing annoying reading all these Kadri posts over and over again as if you didn't hate him too.

Kadri had +8 goals and +4 pts in 5 fewer games his first season. I've already explained the issue with his second season: 2 goals, 9 points in his final 31 games.

You can say I'm living in a fantasy, but I've got receipts.

Confirmed with Link: Thread 'COL trades Barrie(50% retained)/Kerfoot/2020 6th to TOR for Kadri/Rosen/2020 3rd Part 2'

Jun 12, 2020

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• Treb
• Replies: 516
• Forum: Colorado Avalanche

Kadri's been exactly as advertised with his grit and two way play. Love how he sees a potential defensive breakdown in the D zone, and then just charges the puck carrier and takes him out with a big hit.

Kadri brought a legit scoring option to the second line and quickly became the Avs most trusted faceoff man. He has a tendency to go unnoticed for a while in games, but he’s a goal scorer and that’s exactly what Colorado needed.

I think Barrie is a good dude and all but I would be lying if I said I didnt take some enjoyment out of seeing him struggle and Kerfoot especially since I had to hear all summer how Joe got bent over no Vaseline by Dubas. Kadri came in and did everything we needed him to do.

I miss Barrie, but Kadri is so much more important to this team.

This trade has aged very well.

Gift which just keeps giving

 

[Vaslof]

Kadri had +8 goals and +4 pts in 5 fewer games his first season. I've already explained the issue with his second season: 2 goals, 9 points in his final 31 games.

You can say I'm living in a fantasy, but I've got receipts.

Confirmed with Link: Thread 'COL trades Barrie(50% retained)/Kerfoot/2020 6th to TOR for Kadri/Rosen/2020 3rd Part 2'

Jun 12, 2020

Continue here

• Treb
• Replies: 516
• Forum: Colorado Avalanche

posts from 2020 summer, like f*** off with that shit already. Why don't you go read some other posts over those 2 first years of Kadri? You can't rewrite history by quoting posts from his good streak and act like that's what people were always saying.

 

[Pokecheque]

posts from 2020 summer, like f*** off with that shit already. Why don't you go read some other posts over those 2 first years of Kadri? You can't rewrite history by quoting posts from his good streak and act like that's what people were always saying.

Dude, enough already. No one was really complaining much about Kadri that first year. Yes, he was a flawed player, because he IS a flawed player but he filled the role more than adequately. It was the following season where for reasons we still don't know, he bottomed out. More than made up for it the following year though. Also, people were also kinda/sorta breathing a sigh of relief when Barrie flamed out in Toronto.

 

[Vaslof]

Dude, enough already. No one was really complaining much about Kadri that first year. Yes, he was a flawed player, because he IS a flawed player but he filled the role more than adequately. It was the following season where for reasons we still don't know, he bottomed out. More than made up for it the following year though. Also, people were also kinda/sorta breathing a sigh of relief when Barrie flamed out in Toronto.

No. It has been 3 f***ing years just get over it already. Everything has been dicussed over to death. You don't need to go "but Kadri" every f***ing time we lose a hockey game. Especially when the same people who are hating on current players probably hated on Kadri back in the day.

 

[Vaslof]

Let's go down the memory road with shadow1:

"My mind is made up. Kadri is a net neutral or net negative too many nights. He's consistently one of the worst players on the ice.

Also, considering Newhook's role is only going to expand, from a positional standpoint it makes sense to remove the Kadri roadblock."

"Kadri had a bad first game. Considering how good he looked as a LW at the end of the season, and how bad he looked for most of the season, I'm beginning to wonder if this issue is that he can't play C anymore.

Kadri-Newhook-Burakovsky had success at the end of the season, and Saad-Kadri-Burakovsky had success earlier in the year. I hope one of these lines is re-united last game. The Burakovsky-Kadri-Donskoi line has never really worked in two years."

"Though I'm not thrilled about it, it seems like Kadri is sticking around.

At the 2021 NHL Draft there was a rumor Colorado was kicking the tires on Christian Dvorak. If that trade comes to fruition, maybe Kadri will be shipped somewhere else. But I'm not holding my breath."

"Kadri had an insane year (100 point pace), but paced for less than 62 points in each of the five seasons prior (61, 56, 49, 58, 47)."

"Kuemper stinks right now, but playing Devil's advocate, it could be a bad stretch. Remember how downright rancid Kadri was last year? He had like 4 points in his final ~20 games before the suspension. Next thing you know he lights the NHL on fire."

"The play styles are different, but Kadri's low point was just as low. There was a mixture of fans who either wanted him traded or were unsure if he could still handle the 2C role heading into 2022:"

"The Burakovsky - Compher - Donskoi line was consistently dangerous last night, much more so than when Kadri has in the middle lately.

It's ironic because 95 & 72 were brought in to be the elusive second line wingers Colorado has been missing the last 2-3 seasons. And while they've produced like 2W's (for the most part), Kadri is quickly becoming the new Soderberg now that he's being flanked by Nieto and Calvert."

"Do it Joe. Playoffs aside, Kadri worked his way off of the top-PP last season and at one point went 19 games without a goal (and only 3 assists). Time to move on."

"I hope Sakic trades Kadri today and brings in a two way center. Colorado had to eat a $2M signing bonus today, so he should be easier to move."

"In all seriousness on the general topic of next year's Kadri replacement, I don't think Sakic needs to move heaven and earth to find a 2C/create cap space for one. As great as Kadri was this year, Colorado was 9-1-0 without him (10-1-0 including Game 4 against Edmonton)."

 

[shadow1]

posts from 2020 summer, like f*** off with that shit already. Why don't you go read some other posts over those 2 first years of Kadri? You can't rewrite history by quoting posts from his good streak and act like that's what people were always saying.

You said "Kadri was generally regarded as a failure for two out of three seasons he played for us."

Of course I'm going to pull posts from the past. We aren't having a debate of opinion, we're talking about how Kadri was perceived at the time.

Let's go down the memory road with shadow1:

"My mind is made up. Kadri is a net neutral or net negative too many nights. He's consistently one of the worst players on the ice.

Also, considering Newhook's role is only going to expand, from a positional standpoint it makes sense to remove the Kadri roadblock."

"Kadri had a bad first game. Considering how good he looked as a LW at the end of the season, and how bad he looked for most of the season, I'm beginning to wonder if this issue is that he can't play C anymore.

Kadri-Newhook-Burakovsky had success at the end of the season, and Saad-Kadri-Burakovsky had success earlier in the year. I hope one of these lines is re-united last game. The Burakovsky-Kadri-Donskoi line has never really worked in two years."

"Though I'm not thrilled about it, it seems like Kadri is sticking around.

At the 2021 NHL Draft there was a rumor Colorado was kicking the tires on Christian Dvorak. If that trade comes to fruition, maybe Kadri will be shipped somewhere else. But I'm not holding my breath."

"Kadri had an insane year (100 point pace), but paced for less than 62 points in each of the five seasons prior (61, 56, 49, 58, 47)."

"Kuemper stinks right now, but playing Devil's advocate, it could be a bad stretch. Remember how downright rancid Kadri was last year? He had like 4 points in his final ~20 games before the suspension. Next thing you know he lights the NHL on fire."

"The play styles are different, but Kadri's low point was just as low. There was a mixture of fans who either wanted him traded or were unsure if he could still handle the 2C role heading into 2022:"

"The Burakovsky - Compher - Donskoi line was consistently dangerous last night, much more so than when Kadri has in the middle lately.

It's ironic because 95 & 72 were brought in to be the elusive second line wingers Colorado has been missing the last 2-3 seasons. And while they've produced like 2W's (for the most part), Kadri is quickly becoming the new Soderberg now that he's being flanked by Nieto and Calvert."

"Do it Joe. Playoffs aside, Kadri worked his way off of the top-PP last season and at one point went 19 games without a goal (and only 3 assists). Time to move on."

"I hope Sakic trades Kadri today and brings in a two way center. Colorado had to eat a $2M signing bonus today, so he should be easier to move."

"In all seriousness on the general topic of next year's Kadri replacement, I don't think Sakic needs to move heaven and earth to find a 2C/create cap space for one. As great as Kadri was this year, Colorado was 9-1-0 without him (10-1-0 including Game 4 against Edmonton)."

What do any of these quotes prove? All of these comments were from, or about, 2021. Not 2020. I've said three times now how bad Kadri was in 2021. My first reply to you included an entire thread about it.

 

[Pokecheque]

No. It has been 3 f***ing years just get over it already. Everything has been dicussed over to death. You don't need to go "but Kadri" every f***ing time we lose a hockey game. Especially when the same people who are hating on current players probably hated on Kadri back in the day.

That's totally fair but the point of contention is you keep saying that Kadri wasn't any good his first year. He absolutely was. As far as bitching about players, we do that about literally EVERY player. Some of us, including me, are not thrilled with MacKinnon's play of late (I still maintain he's probably got this goddamned bug that's going around the locker room).

And...we'll get over it once someone finally steps the f*** up.

 

[Foppa2118]

It's been very clear for a while now that they DID have a trade made to send EJ to Anaheim, but EJ dragged his feet on a decision.
That was also the reason Kadri went un-signed until mid-august (?!) that summer. He thought he would re-sign with the Avs.
Because EJ took so damn long, most rosters were set for the 22-23 season and the Avs were stuck without a 2C and did the media lip-service schtick with "Newhook 2C bla-bla-bla".

Why do we think the Avs would have done anything different if EJ made his decision immediately?

Who would they have signed? The Avs don't usually like signing big money UFA's for big roles. Naz was different, they already knew he fit with the team.

The Avs relying completely on EJ to waive his NTC to keep Kadri, which he wasn't obligated to do at all, should be just as much, if not more to blame.

The fact that they put all their eggs in EJ waiving and Kadri signing, and then didn't do anything else when he went to Calgary, suggests to me they didn't really have a Plan B that summer.

I think their Plan B was to try their internal options at 2C, like Compher, Newhook, ERod, and Mikko, to start the year like Bednar mentioned during camp, and then to trade for a 2C at the deadline if they needed to, but they decided for various reasons that wasn't the year to go all in, so they went with the same plan next year with Mitts, and then a similar plan this year with Nelson and Coyle.

 

[Richard88]

Why do we think the Avs would have done anything different if EJ made his decision immediately?

Who would they have signed? The Avs don't usually like signing big money UFA's for big roles. Naz was different, they already knew he fit with the team.

The Avs relying completely on EJ to waive his NTC to keep Kadri, which he wasn't obligated to do at all, should be just as much, if not more to blame.

The fact that they put all their eggs in EJ waiving and Kadri signing, and then didn't do anything else when he went to Calgary, suggests to me they didn't really have a Plan B that summer.

I think their Plan B was to try their internal options at 2C, like Compher, Newhook, ERod, and Mikko, to start the year like Bednar mentioned during camp, and then to trade for a 2C at the deadline if they needed to, but they decided for various reasons that wasn't the year to go all in, so they went with the same plan next year with Mitts, and then a similar plan this year with Nelson and Coyle.

If EJ had made his decision quicker they could have bought him out in the buyout window. But since he took his time that window closed and they had no choice but to keep him. Maybe CMac should have been more ruthless early on.

 

[Vaslof]

That's totally fair but the point of contention is you keep saying that Kadri wasn't any good his first year. He absolutely was. As far as bitching about players, we do that about literally EVERY player. Some of us, including me, are not thrilled with MacKinnon's play of late (I still maintain he's probably got this goddamned bug that's going around the locker room).

And...we'll get over it once someone finally steps the f*** up.

No I said that generally, as in most of the time by most of the people, he was another failed 2C experiment before the cup season. In any case I will try to ignore the Kadriposting from now on since there's no end to it and I don't want to be drawn into more Kadri arguments by engaging.

 

[Pokecheque]

If EJ had made his decision quicker they could have bought him out in the buyout window. But since he took his time that window closed and they had no choice but to keep him. Maybe CMac should have been more ruthless early on.

Yeah, unfortunately the organization needed to just make the decision that they couldn't afford to keep a third pairing defender making that much money with so many holes to fill. OR, just not retain Manson. But Kadri needed to be the priority there regardless, that was a huge, huge mistake that they've literally been paying for ever since.

Much as I love EJ, the organization owed him nothing after 2022.

 

[Foppa2118]

If EJ had made his decision quicker they could have bought him out in the buyout window. But since he took his time that window closed and they had no choice but to keep him. Maybe CMac should have been more ruthless early on.

Yeah maybe, but I have a feeling probably not.

I don't know if Stan would have signed off on that. It would have been like $8M in dead salary.

If they knew Stan was willing to buy him out, I don't think they would have waited either. I think they would have just done it.

 

[Richard88]

Yeah maybe, but I have a feeling probably not.

I don't know if Stan would have signed off on that. It would have been like $8M in dead salary.

If they knew Stan was willing to buy him out, I don't think they would have waited either. I think they would have just done it.

A buyout would have cost $4m, with a $2m caphit for 2 years. EJ easily would have made up the difference (and then some) on his next contract. He got $3m+ from Buffalo a year later after all.

 

[Foppa2118]

A buyout would have cost $4m, with a $2m caphit for 2 years. EJ easily would have made up the difference (and then some) on his next contract. He got $3m+ from Buffalo a year later after all.

Oh that's right it was one year left not two.

Still not sure Stan signs off on that though, and if he would have, I think they would have just done it instead of waiting like I mentioned.

I think it just played out the only way it was gonna play out. Regardless of how long it took.

 

[Richard88]

Oh that's right it was one year left not two.

Still not sure Stan signs off on that though, and if he would have, I think they would have just done it instead of waiting like I mentioned.

I think it just played out the only way it was gonna play out. Regardless of how long it took.

Buying him out would have saved $4m in capspace that season. And they had roughly $2m in space that eventually got used to sign Rodrigues. So they would have been within $500k of signing Kadri for $6.5m if they would have bought EJ out. So it would have been doable if CMac was ruthless. Looking back he probably regrets not doing that as his job would have been waaaay easier the last 3 years had he simply signed Kadri.

 

[Foppa2118]

Buying him out would have saved $4m in capspace that season. And they had roughly $2m in space that eventually got used to sign Rodrigues. So they would have been within $500k of signing Kadri for $6.5m if they would have bought EJ out. So it would have been doable if CMac was ruthless. Looking back he probably regrets not doing that as his job would have been waaaay easier the last 3 years had he simply signed Kadri.

Stan doesn't care about cap space though. He cares about $$$.

He'll let the GM spend to the cap when they have a contender, but outside that the budget is pretty tight. He's running it like a business. That's why it took a while to get the new jumbotron, they still haven't built the new practice facility, and they had a lot of years not spending much on scouting.

They've had a few smaller buyouts, but I don't know if they've had any for $4M, when they were already spending to the cap. He just let them buy out Orpik for less a few years prior too.

Buying someone out gives them cap savings, but also means they're spending over the cap in salary.

I think that's a big reason why they never really utilized LTIR as much as they could have before this year.

 

[RoyIsALegend]