Proposal: Chris Kreider

Habs Halifax

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Not only can you not have production conditions, but that is a terrible trade for Montreal.

Montreal is going to trade the 33rd OA pick, a likely top-5/10 2023 pick and a RD prospect that Montreal really wanted/needed for a former 1st OA pick trending behind basically every 1st OA pick after two seasons since Patrik Stefan, a terrible D-man with a bad contract and goalie they can't even pay right now?

If you spent even an ounce of time over-analyzing your trade proposals for other teams as much as you over-analyze trade proposals for the Rangers, you'd never make a trade proposal again.

Yeah, think of the backlash Rangers fans would put towards the entire Habs fan base if the situation was reversed and we proposed something like that.

We are not falling for the French Lafreneire. We would engage in a trade but he's not getting top 10 value at this point from anybody. Habs would likely offer the most but it's not what Rangers are expecting.

Another meh season from Lafreniere and he's not even worth a 1st rounder anymore. That's the track he is on.

Anderson and Kidney is my offer and I'd say a lot of Habs fans wouldn't even offer that.

They wouldn’t. Rangers need to cut cap from somewhere but all their big contracts are on NMC so it’ll be interesting to see what happens. Rangers have too many LW, Kreider makes a lot of money, maybe some fans want to sell high, but it’s not realistic

Difficult cause Kreider has a full NMC until the 24/25 season so if he waives that, it's for a contender and what contender has $6.5M in cap space? They will be trying to send contracts back or you will need a 3rd team to help the cap issues. If the Rangers want to get someone younger and free up cap.

Very difficult even after Kreider's very good season.
 

bernmeister

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They wouldn’t. Rangers need to cut cap from somewhere but all their big contracts are on NMC so it’ll be interesting to see what happens. Rangers have too many LW, Kreider makes a lot of money, maybe some fans want to sell high, but it’s not realistic
Given no return of Strome, Geo, Nemeth.
Maybe Hajek on a 2way we can bury him in the A unless an emergency, but he prob gets better offer.

Almost everyone is NMC or unmovable.
Goodrow is a keeper, so is Chytil due to emergence and cost control.
Lindgren at 3 x 2 is only piece we can move and have Robertson to replace.
Even guy like Jones on elc needs to be considered to move if are looking at bringing most guys back and adding 1. Vatrano + 2 Copp

Kreider is not the backbreaker here. And Fox at 9+ hurts, but you get what you pay for and pay for what you get.
Killer is Zib + bread + Trouba w/full nmc.

Sure and about 98% of the league can't afford his cap hit, Which basically means he's not moving. He sure isn't waiving for bottom feeders. Which are the only ones that can afford to take on his enormous cap hit.
Agreed, but cart before the horse, in situation w/player 111% in control, first have to figure out where he might agree to go.
 

Number1RedWingsFan52

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Given no return of Strome, Geo, Nemeth.
Maybe Hajek on a 2way we can bury him in the A unless an emergency, but he prob gets better offer.

Almost everyone is NMC or unmovable.
Goodrow is a keeper, so is Chytil due to emergence and cost control.
Lindgren at 3 x 2 is only piece we can move and have Robertson to replace.
Even guy like Jones on elc needs to be considered to move if are looking at bringing most guys back and adding 1. Vatrano + 2 Copp

Kreider is not the backbreaker here. And Fox at 9+ hurts, but you get what you pay for and pay for what you get.
Killer is Zib + bread + Trouba w/full nmc.


Agreed, but cart before the horse, in situation w/player 111% in control, first have to figure out where he might agree to go.
One would assume that he'd only be willing to waive for contending teams, And they'd be the last ones that could afford him.
 

bernmeister

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One would assume that he'd only be willing to waive for contending teams, And they'd be the last ones that could afford him.
It's a reasonable assumption. But my pt is if he is willing to be flexible at all, it likely is only 1, MAYBE 2 relocations. It is not a larger number of all/all possible legit contenders.
So actually moving him is even harder
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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Already 31 years old with 5 more years left at $6.5M and coming off a career year that won't be matched again?


Yeah, nobody is trading for him.
 
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Guttersniped

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Already 31 years old with 5 more years left at $6.5M and coming off a career year that won't be matched again?


Yeah, nobody is trading for him.

The bigger issues the Rangers themselves probably aren’t interested in selling high right now and shipping off a big part of their offensive production plus he has a NMC.
 

Savant

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Already 31 years old with 5 more years left at $6.5M and coming off a career year that won't be matched again?


Yeah, nobody is trading for him.
Don’t think the Rangers want to deal him either. Just want to make the point, that although we know he isn’t getting 52 goals agian, even if he scores 30-35 with double digits on the power play, he is certainly worth that deal. At the minimum it’s not a stretch, especially market wise.

I mean what is a realistic, minimum number of goals do you expect to see for a cap hit around 6.5m? Kreider does not need to be hitting 50 goals a season for that deal to be worth it.
 
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broc

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Mon 2022 2nd + 2023 1st [top 3 protected] + Barron .925 elc + NYR 2022 4th
for
LaF .925 elc + Nemeth (2.5 x 2) + Geo rfa rights

in addition is the part 2 supplemental
if LaF scores min 30 goals in 2023, then NYR 2023 3rd for MON 2024 1st
if LaF scores min 35 goals in 2024, then NYR 2024 3rd for MON 2025 1st
if LaF scores min 40 goals in 2025, then NYR 2025 3rd for MON 2026 1st

none of these ^ apply unless LaF hits those targets.
That's a lot, but for a 1OA with huge upside emerging, it is not unreasonable.

“huge upside emerging”.
cmon bern, Lafs production for a #1OA pick has been very ”meh” thus far. Not doubting there is some good upside there for him still, but you’re talking (and valuing him) like he’s been setting the world on fire. He hasn’t. He’s produced less than what most ppl would have expected by now even.

regardless, there is no way anyone is trading possibly upwards or over possibly 5 first rd picks value for him.

a likely top 5 pick next year, a recent 1st rder in Justin Barron, the first pick in the 2nd rd this year, a 4th... and potentially 3 more 1st rounders? Laf would have to be producing like a top 20 player in the NHL and teams still wouldn’t pay that much for him.

I worry/wonder about your grip on reality. Because this stuff above is nowhere close to it.
 
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broc

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Eichel returned way less, and he was a higher regarded prospect and also is much more proven- not to mention playing a more important position, than Lafreniere.

Maybe Laf could become a 40 goal scorer still. He could also be another Jonathan Drouin. Neither possibility is out of the range of outcomes.

good luck selling him high when he has so far produced low.
 

bernmeister

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“huge upside emerging”.
cmon bern, Lafs production for a #1OA pick has been very ”meh” thus far. Not doubting there is some good upside there for him still, but you’re talking (and valuing him) like he’s been setting the world on fire. He hasn’t. He’s produced less than what most ppl would have expected by now even.


regardless, there is no way anyone is trading possibly upwards or over possibly 5 first rd picks value for him.

a likely top 5 pick next year, a recent 1st rder in Justin Barron, the first pick in the 2nd rd this year, a 4th... and potentially 3 more 1st rounders? Laf would have to be producing like a top 20 player in the NHL and teams still wouldn’t pay that much for him.

I worry/wonder about your grip on reality. Because this stuff above is nowhere close to it.
bold: where you are wrong is Rangers have right to weight heavily on legit projected upside. You reject that. Rangers do not have to/should not accept your posture.
We have identified why he as not a phenom on year 1, let alone day 1. Every other aspect, he has checked out, his skating HAS BEEN a weak link. That has been addressed and continues to improve to such degree he should be crushing it on all cylinders by early 2023. In the meantime, he continues to emerge. Your failure to acknowledge this, while you have a right to that opinion, does not make your opinion correct.

underline. He was worth more than the 1OA paid for him. Then his value went down if for no other reason than fact 2 yrs of elc are gone. But STILL elc.
Five firsts is nebulous in that they are usually not all available currently in the same year, so there is delayed gratification in when received, and how much of a big deal that is or is not is betw two trading partners.
There are also other currently available assets that may be substituted in lieu of future firsts. Howev, unless there is sufficient overpayment, and in the currency NY can use [draft picks which = mn cap hit], NY has no reason to deal LaF.
On the one hand the price should come down b'c obv Rangers need to move people to recover salary, which weakens their bargaining position. On the other hand, with an elc, LaF is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

So what I said before holds. Just because there is the hope that drury will not be arrogant and throw away Krav and we are thrilled w/how good Othmann looks, that is no reason to jettison LaF for chump change which is apparently your valuation.

Italics. It is wholly proper to note that the only possible impasse breaker here is to have a down payment, and then something which kicks in ONLY IF LaF earns his hype next 3 yrs.

Final sentence.
Your denigration is WAY out of line.
Some of my academic work, which has Nobel Prize potential, is being studied for academic validation.
Your dig as to my "grip on reality" followed by your unqualified assessment, is rebuked.

Will you try to change things, with the power that you have, the power of a million new ideas?
- Robert Lamm, Chicago
 

bernmeister

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Eichel returned way less, and he was a higher regarded prospect and also is much more proven- not to mention playing a more important position, than Lafreniere.

Maybe Laf could become a 40 goal scorer still. He could also be another Jonathan Drouin. Neither possibility is out of the range of outcomes.

good luck selling him high when he has so far produced low.
LaF has no medical issues, only a need to improve the mechanics of his skating, which requires instruction and corrective effort.

When dealt there was a HUGE medical issue w/Eichel, and even if thank God the surgery he wants is a success, there is that underlying condition; one good hit in the wrong location is a risk for all NHL players, but those like Eich have elevated risk.
That impacted his return.
 

TGWL

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Already 31 years old with 5 more years left at $6.5M and coming off a career year that won't be matched again?


Yeah, nobody is trading for him.
Stop that nonsense. Right now NYR aren't trading him but there is always a market for a player that just scored 50 goals and hasn't taken a step back yet, despite his age. Add that he's arguably the best net-front guy over the last half decade or so and it's an easy decision for teams if they can manage the cap. Matching 50 goals or not, his cap hit right now is 6.5, not 10 million and teams would be willing to grab Kreider if they could.

Does that mean Rangers get out of a 6.5 cap hit? No, they most likely end up with a some kind of roster cap coming back to ease the contract, but Kreider is far from a negative contract right now.
 

cwede

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This is going to sound crazy but I think we should explore a Panarin trade
it would be used against NYR next time they try to sign a marquee UFA.

But also it would undermine their strength, teams needing to concern about both Zib line, and Bread line, is huge part of what makes this team scary, and successful
 

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