Value of: Chris Kreider

[TGWL]

I'd like to see Kreider on the Oilers, but some money has to go back because Edmonton is right up against the cap.

Kreider has ranged from 37-53 points and has a lot of positive intangibles. I'd expect him to put up 50+ points on McDavid's wing, and 40-50 on Draisaitl's.

So if a high pick and a prospect is the price for Ranger fans, keep in mind some cap has to go back.

Kassian $1.95 Million AAV
Caggiula $1.5 Million AAV
Chaisson $650,000 AAV

All in the last year of their deals. Not too much money going to New York. Off the books after the end of the season.

2019 1st top 10 protected, otherwise 1st 2020 unprotected
2019 2nd, option to shift to 2020 2nd
Ethan Bear (RHD Prospect)

If the 2019 first gets pushed back to the 2020 1st because the Oilers finished in the top 10, I would want the 2nd to not be pushed back a year. We can't have both of those going to 2020.

 

[TFHockey]

If the 2019 first gets pushed back to the 2020 1st because the Oilers finished in the top 10, I would want the 2nd to not be pushed back a year. We can't have both of those going to 2020.

Yeah that's pretty much how I saw it.

 

[bernmeister]

Except it's not a good comparison being that.....

Kreider is not a center
His college position and was originally considered/projected as such.

and that to say that a hall of famer was Kreider's ceiling was ridiculous to begin with,
The key element of Keon was his speed.
The key element of Kreider has been his speed.
Around time drafted, CK was rated by someone in NYR as top 5, possible top 3 AS TO SPEED ONLY if playing in NHL.
The only concern there was this was a skinny kid who could add a lot of muscle, but that bulk could also slow him down; fortunately it did not.
My emphasis on CK as a C has always been on his speed.
Thus since I was specific to that, it was an apt comparison.
Unfortunately, like I said, the rest of it has not developed as well as Keon, but I never said it was a given that would be the case. I only spoke to the speed, and emphasized that once the results after him bulking up were established.

being that he was a project pick drafted out of Prep School
irrelevant

and he didn't dominate at BC.
irrelevant, and I'm not sure I would say this.
Inexperienced and developing into physical and other form, I'd buy he was not able to dominate proportionately then as he has demonstrated he can do now. But I wouldn't create the impression he was nothing, either.

 

[Kupo]

Kreider is not a center
His college position and was originally considered/projected as such.

and that to say that a hall of famer was Kreider's ceiling was ridiculous to begin with,
The key element of Keon was his speed.
The key element of Kreider has been his speed.
Around time drafted, CK was rated by someone in NYR as top 5, possible top 3 AS TO SPEED ONLY if playing in NHL.
The only concern there was this was a skinny kid who could add a lot of muscle, but that bulk could also slow him down; fortunately it did not.
My emphasis on CK as a C has always been on his speed.
Thus since I was specific to that, it was an apt comparison.
Unfortunately, like I said, the rest of it has not developed as well as Keon, but I never said it was a given that would be the case. I only spoke to the speed, and emphasized that once the results after him bulking up were established.

being that he was a project pick drafted out of Prep School
irrelevant

and he didn't dominate at BC.
irrelevant, and I'm not sure I would say this.
Inexperienced and developing into physical and other form, I'd buy he was not able to dominate proportionately then as he has demonstrated he can do now. But I wouldn't create the impression he was nothing, either.

The Keon comp has nothing to do with Kreiders value. You used 219 words to build up Kreider when only about 20 was needed.

You’re the only one that expected elite results from him. He was a good player at BC and he’s had a good NHL career. He’s not elite though. And he never will be. He’s never been that.

Speed and physicality doesn’t = superstar. Bottom line is he’s never been an exceptional scorer or playmaker at any point in his career. He’s a solid power forward with excellent speed and terrific front-net presence. He is what he is. A “good player”, but not a great player.

 

[Tender Rip]

The Keon comp has nothing to do with Kreiders value. You used 219 words to build up Kreider when only about 20 was needed.

You’re the only one that expected elite results from him. He was a good player at BC and he’s had a good NHL career. He’s not elite though. And he never will be. He’s never been that.

Speed and physicality doesn’t = superstar. Bottom line is he’s never been an exceptional scorer or playmaker at any point in his career. He’s a solid power forward with excellent speed and terrific front-net presence. He is what he is. A “good player”, but not a great player.

I agree with all of this.
I remember having heated arguments with some Rangers fans on his upside back to his BC days, and hockey IQ was always the issue. He just doesn't have enough of it to be truly great.

But I would love him on the Pens to provide what he does, because those would be brilliant complimentary skills and fit with what we'd like to be. Him with Malkin, yummie.

1st and Daniel Sprong a good starting point?

 

[TGWL]

I agree with all of this.
I remember having heated arguments with some Rangers fans on his upside back to his BC days, and hockey IQ was always the issue. He just doesn't have enough of it to be truly great.

But I would love him on the Pens to provide what he does, because those would be brilliant complimentary skills and fit with what we'd like to be. Him with Malkin, yummie.

1st and Daniel Sprong a good starting point?

Unless you think Penguins are finishing with a pick #10-13, not even close. How has Sprong played? Is it more of not getting a real shot?

 

[One Winged Angel]

Kreider is not a center
His college position and was originally considered/projected as such.

He was never projected to play center at the college level.

and that to say that a hall of famer was Kreider's ceiling was ridiculous to begin with,
The key element of Keon was his speed.
The key element of Kreider has been his speed.
Around time drafted, CK was rated by someone in NYR as top 5, possible top 3 AS TO SPEED ONLY if playing in NHL.
The only concern there was this was a skinny kid who could add a lot of muscle, but that bulk could also slow him down; fortunately it did not.
My emphasis on CK as a C has always been on his speed.
Thus since I was specific to that, it was an apt comparison.
Unfortunately, like I said, the rest of it has not developed as well as Keon, but I never said it was a given that would be the case. I only spoke to the speed, and emphasized that once the results after him bulking up were established.

Keon's game wasn't just predicated on speed, you've already acknowledged that. The only thing that they've ever had in common was being good skaters.

Also, no one ever said Kreider had the ability to be a top 3-5 fastest skater in the NHL before he played a game. He was the fastest skater in his draft class according to the combine grades. There's a HUGE difference.

being that he was a project pick drafted out of Prep School
irrelevant

It's not irrelevant. You don't go comparing someone who is a project playing in prep school to a hall of famer before he even plays an NHL game. If you can't see how ridiculous that sounds, there's something very wrong with you.

and he didn't dominate at BC.
irrelevant, and I'm not sure I would say this.
Inexperienced and developing into physical and other form, I'd buy he was not able to dominate proportionately then as he has demonstrated he can do now. But I wouldn't create the impression he was nothing, either.

He hasn't dominated at any level. He was barely a point per game player in his 3rd and final year at BC. He's never been close to a point per game player over a full season at the NHL level.

You need to come back to reality. There is no dominance here. The guy is a good player, but is inconsistent and will most likely never be the sum of his parts. It's still a good pick based on where they took him and how he was a project. I'd still pick him again there in a re-draft if he fell.

 

[Tender Rip]

Unless you think Penguins are finishing with a pick #10-13, not even close. How has Sprong played? Is it more of not getting a real shot?

Fair enough. I was going by previously suggested 1st and good prospect. I would be sorely disappointed if we’d up in that range, but at the same time I imagine most the teams that’s be interested in paying for Kreider are contenders or there about.

Sprong is getting buried on the 4th so far with few minutes and mostly defensive zone starts. Impossible to really get a read on.
Tough to break in with Kessel, Horny and Rust all having long term contracts at RW.

 

[Shootertooter]

Fair enough. I was going by previously suggested 1st and good prospect. I would be sorely disappointed if we’d up in that range, but at the same time I imagine most the teams that’s be interested in paying for Kreider are contenders or there about.

Sprong is getting buried on the 4th so far with few minutes and mostly defensive zone starts. Impossible to really get a read on.
Tough to break in with Kessel, Horny and Rust all having long term contracts at RW.

A 1st and Sprong is a start. The first likely falling somewhere after 20OA makes it less valuable to NYR but it starts communication. I am sure the cost to the Pens will come at a premium because they are in the same division. I also am of the opinion that if the Rangers trade Kreider, they become big players in trying to sign Panarin.

 

[Kupo]

I agree with all of this.
I remember having heated arguments with some Rangers fans on his upside back to his BC days, and hockey IQ was always the issue. He just doesn't have enough of it to be truly great.

But I would love him on the Pens to provide what he does, because those would be brilliant complimentary skills and fit with what we'd like to be. Him with Malkin, yummie.

1st and Daniel Sprong a good starting point?

It's not just his IQ, but his overall skill. He's not a great shooter. And he's not great at stick handling. His bread and butter is flying down the boards and cutting in to the net. Or, deflecting shots. I still think he has 30G potential in him, but those aren't superstar numbers.

A late 1st isn't overly appealing, but a 1st and Sprong isn't bad value. He would definitely flourish playing with a puck possession monster like Malkin though.

 

[NYRKing]

Kreider deserves some credit for sticking to what he does best. He stretches the ice, can grind, and is a great net-front presence. Superstar? No. Top 6 power forward? Yes. He does have ability to finish, and without the injury last year, easily would've logged his 4th straight 20 goal season. With another year remaining, if he actually got moved (doubt it) I don't see less than a 1st and a very intriguing prospect. Reality is playoff teams would drool to have his style of play up and down the lineup. He can push the pace for superstars and can grind in a bottom 6 if needed.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

There's a significant difference between a middle six for and top six forward and if you don't think so then continue to argue with the wall

He is a 50 point, 21 goal scorer. A relative bust versus what he could have been. I had much higher Hope's for him and always wanted him in Boston... but his stock has dropped and he isn't worth what he once was.

 

[One Winged Angel]

He is a 50 point, 21 goal scorer. A relative bust versus what he could have been. I had much higher Hope's for him and always wanted him in Boston... but his stock has dropped and he isn't worth what he once was.

He was a project picked in the 2nd half of the 1st round that was playing in prep school when drafted. How many of those end up actually being 20+ goal, 50+ point players at the NHL level?

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

He was a project picked in the 2nd half of the 1st round that was playing in prep school when drafted. How many of those end up actually being 20+ goal, 50+ point players at the NHL level?

As early as the next year he was listed as NYRs top prospect (for good reason) and one of the top prospects in the game.

 

[McSuper]

Lol wut....

I understand the appeal of having Mcdavid and Draisaitl as a 1,2 punch at centre . But replacing Draisaitl with Kreider on McDavid's wing would net about the same offence . Shattenkirk Lets us sent Bouchard down and develop the kid right . To date he looks like the best D drafted this year but that can turn in a hurry if he loses his confidence . We also rid ourselves of Lucic while we still have RNH to move to the 2nd line C . Even If Kreider does't work with McDavid . Kreider can drive a line so he would real Help the 2nd line with RNH . In the end we move out some youth add a big winger . Do right you can build a good 2nd line around RNH .

XXX McDavid Yamamoto
Kreider RNH Puljujarvi

I think it a fair deal as the NYR are sending back value while taking Lucic . You can only ask a team to do so much and the NYR fan responding are being fair .

 

[TFHockey]

I understand the appeal of having Mcdavid and Draisaitl as a 1,2 punch at centre . But replacing Draisaitl with Kreider replacing Draisaitl on McDavid's wing would net about the same offence . Shattenkirk Lets us sent Bouchard down and develop the kid right . To date he looks like the best D drafted this year but that can turn in a hurry if he loses his confidence . We also rid ourselves of Lucic while we still have RNH to move to the 2nd line C . Even If Kreider does't work with McDavid . Cruder can drive a line so he would real Help the 2nd line with RNH . In the end we move out some youth add a big winger . Do right you can build a good 2nd line around RNH .

XXX McDavid Yamamoto
Kreider RNH Puljujarvi

I think it a fair deal as the NYR are sending back value while taking Lucic . You can only ask a team to do so much and the NYR fan responding are being fair .

Drai goes for a lot more than Kreider. Yes we are sending back $14.5 Million in cap space but we are losing a 70+ point top 6 forward who is only 22 and gaining a 27 y.o. 40-50 point top 6 winger.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

He is a 50 point, 21 goal scorer. A relative bust versus what he could have been. I had much higher Hope's for him and always wanted him in Boston... but his stock has dropped and he isn't worth what he once was.

Not sure you know what bust means......

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Not sure you know what bust means......

Hence the word "relative".

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Hence the word "relative".

Relative doesn't work either as it's being used in conjunction with bust.

 

[One Winged Angel]

As early as the next year he was listed as NYRs top prospect (for good reason) and one of the top prospects in the game.

Who listed him as one of the top prospects in the game at that time? Because his first two years at BC were totally underwhelming.

And I followed Kreider extensively throughout his days as a prospect, before he played his first games with the Rangers. Maybe towards his later days he was listed higher up, but he was never one of the very best prospects in the game.

I think you might be confused or maybe misread something.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Relative doesn't work either as it's being used in conjunction with bust.

What I'm still waiting for is the list of recent prep school players who were picked in the 2nd half of the first round or beyond that ended up being as good or better than Kreider, since he wasn't a project and is a "relative bust" according to this guy.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

What I'm still waiting for is the list of recent prep school players who were picked in the 2nd half of the first round or beyond that ended up being as good or better than Kreider, since he wasn't a project and is a "relative bust" according to this guy.

You are specifically asking for a tiny sample size, one that is mostly limited to the New England region and select few other areas where hockey is a main focus.

Hockeysfuture might not be the most reputable prospect site but in September of 2010 they had him as the NYR top prospect over the likes of Stepan and others.

You are purposely deflecting the potential Kreider had to be a top tier player to fit some little narrative. Yes, Kreider should have developed into more than a 21 goal, 50 point scorer based on his potential.

Your point of his being drafted out of prep school is baffling at best... that means absolutely nothing. Is he a lesser player for the development route he chose?! Very odd. You must have seen where he was drafted from and hoped he'd simply turn into an NHLer... very odd.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

You are specifically asking for a tiny sample size, one that is mostly limited to the New England region and select few other areas where hockey is a main focus.

Hockeysfuture might not be the most reputable prospect site but in September of 2010 they had him as the NYR top prospect over the likes of Stepan and others.

You are purposely deflecting the potential Kreider had to be a top tier player to fit some little narrative. Yes, Kreider should have developed into more than a 21 goal, 50 point scorer based on his potential.

Your point of his being drafted out of prep school is baffling at best... that means absolutely nothing. Is he a lesser player for the development route he chose?! Very odd. You must have seen where he was drafted from and hoped he'd simply turn into an NHLer... very odd.

Rose colored glasses, obviously. This thread is littered with hyperbole on CK's value.

 

[One Winged Angel]

You are specifically asking for a tiny sample size, one that is mostly limited to the New England region and select few other areas where hockey is a main focus.

Prep school hockey is all over the US. You just don't know about it, but I'll open it up a little more.

Players who aren't playing major junior or men's level pro hockey when drafted.

Hockeysfuture might not be the most reputable prospect site but in September of 2010 they had him as the NYR top prospect over the likes of Stepan and others.

Well, at that point he definitely wasn't. Stepan had an absolutely incredible WJC earlier on that year and a good season at Wisconsin as was viewed as the most ready prospect the team had. So while HF might have had him there, he definitely wasn't the best according to the organization.

You are purposely deflecting the potential Kreider had to be a top tier player to fit some little narrative. Yes, Kreider should have developed into more than a 21 goal, 50 point scorer based on his potential.

I'm not deflecting anything. I've come out and listed fact after fact about this guy and because you think Bernmeister speaks for every Ranger fan that he's a bust, when he's not. He is what he is and could he score 30+ in a season? Yes, considering he had 28 2 years ago and missed 7 games that year.

It's easy to get blinded by speed, size and physical strength.

Your point of his being drafted out of prep school is baffling at best... that means absolutely nothing. Is he a lesser player for the development route he chose?! Very odd. You must have seen where he was drafted from and hoped he'd simply turn into an NHLer... very odd.

It's not baffling. You just miss the point. He was a project that they took in the 2nd half of the first round. The organization knew they were rolling the dice a little, but they took a chance on a player that they thought had the potential to be more. If anything, they did well considering where he was picked.

If you can't understand that, that's not my problem or any Ranger fan's problem for that matter.

Speaking of avoidance, still waiting on that list.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Oh and the reason that list is so small is because there are most likely little to no players who have gone the route that he did and that have become the player he has, thus squashing your bust label.

Maybe you shouldn't use terms that don't fit the bill.