Speculation: Chris Johnston "An atom bomb could drop"

[Voodoo Child]

I hang in but not to the level I used to. I watch most games but found myself missing the odd one this year. It’s still fun to come in here and debate and argue about the Leafs with my fellow leaf fans no matter how delusional we all may be at one point or another

I've already decided that between: Marner, Matthews, Rielly and JT, I'm not watching the games next year unless at least 2 of those 4 are gone.

Easier for me since where I am games start at 7 AM, to a lot of you who have them at 7 PM. That's a 6 AM start during DST.

Imagine waking up at 6:55, brewing a coffee and getting a stream...for them to go down 4-0 in the first, but you've had a couple coffees so good luck getting back to sleep. My rule changed to wait until the 1st intermission to brew my first coffee - imagine how happy that made me during game 7.

I'll still check the scoreboard and shitpost with you degenerates here, but getting good sleep at my age is more valuable than watching more of the same shit I've been watching for the last decade.

 

[DuncanMacpherson]

Are you aware of the state of the Calgary Flames in 2014 when Treliving was hired?

They were headed towards a total scored earth rebuild in their post Jarome Iginla years and somehow managed to patch it up and emerge as a respectable team in a short period of time.

Drafted Bennett, Andersson, Tkachuk and Fox.

Was Markstrom signing a win? A good litmus test is if you can name the Flames starting goalie before him.

lol traded for Fox, you mean wasted a pick on a player who told the team he would not sign with them, then they lost the player for nothing.

 

[Racer88]

This place I will miss.
I get a kick out of the high emotions and knee jerk reactions too but also the reasoned well written posts that have occasionally forced me to either dig deeper or changed my perspective. There are a lot of knowledgeable posters who I respect despite often being on the opposite page.

Yup

 

[Racer88]

I've already decided that between: Marner, Matthews, Rielly and JT, I'm not watching the games next year unless at least 2 of those 4 are gone.

Easier for me since where I am games start at 7 AM, to a lot of you who have them at 7 PM. That's a 6 AM start during DST.

Imagine waking up at 6:55, brewing a coffee and getting a stream...for them to go down 4-0 in the first, but you've had a couple coffees so good luck getting back to sleep. My rule changed to wait until the 1st intermission to brew my first coffee - imagine how happy that made me during game 7.

I'll still check the scoreboard and shitpost with you degenerates here, but getting good sleep at my age is more valuable than watching more of the same shit I've been watching for the last decade.

At least some times the games are out of reach early so you can bail out early. Lol

 

[Stephen]

lol traded for Fox, you mean wasted a pick on a player who told the team he would not sign with them, then they lost the player for nothing.

He traded Hamilton. Fox. Ferland. And got back Lindholm and Hanifin who were both drafted 5th overall. That’s a straight up up hockey 2.5 for 2 piece hockey trade.

“Wasted the (3rd round) pick.”

 

[notbias]

People cutting up Tre have no clue. Regardless of his past moves when in Calgary where he was forced by demands to rid themselves of players. He has been a very good GM thus far. Even some of his trade of Tkachuk from Calgary to Florida. It wasnt bad. Players just didnt work out. But on paper that deal was very one sided for Calgary when it transpired. Huberdeau, Weeger, prospect and a protected first round pick for Tkachuk and conditional 4th rounder is a win everyday of the week and twice on Sunday's if the players who not old players performed at 75% of what they did in Florida before the trade.

What has he done for the Leafs?

1. Revamped the D core
2. Solidified the goaltending
3. Signed Nylander long term
4. Signed Matthews
5. Held on to Knies and Cowan
6. Only GM who had the balls to confront Marner
7. Letting Bertuzzi walk


Sorry everything else is BS that people are stating. Signing Domi? Laughton trade? Carlo trade? All those things still need to be proven. All 3 of those things still have the ability to be great moves. If the Leafs win against Florida are any of these things an issue? No they are not. Give up folks,

 

[Gallagbi]

He traded Hamilton. Fox. Ferland. And got back Lindholm and Hanifin who were both drafted 5th overall. That’s a straight up up hockey 2.5 for 2 piece hockey trade.

“Wasted the (3rd round) pick.”

Do we think this is a good trade? Dougie/Hanifin seem like a wash, then Lindholm for a top prospect who is now a Norris winner?

Tre's not all bad, but there isn't much here for me to think he's great at his job either.

Goalie signings of the past look good. We know Stolarz , but Hiller was an underrated signing, Smith has a decent year before falling off. Markstorm underwhelmed a bit

His D always seem solid, but never quite top notch. Seems to struggle with managing assets upfront. MT trade, Gaudreau departure, Marner situation, Monahan.

That 2014 season is interesting Hiller was a great 1A for Ramo. Hudler, an undersized depth player broke out, and they had great gains in pre existing youth like Gaudreau, Monahan and Brodie. Yeah, Brodie was young once upon a time. Gio was still old. After that it's 1 decent season and a bunch of mid to high first round pick type years

 

[Stephen]

Do we think this is a good trade? Dougie/Hanifin seem like a wash, then Lindholm for a top prospect who is now a Norris winner?

Tre's not all bad, but there isn't much here for me to think he's great at his job either.

Goalie signings of the past look good. We know Stolarz , but Hiller was an underrated signing, Smith has a decent year before falling off. Markstorm underwhelmed a bit

His D always seem solid, but never quite top notch. Seems to struggle with managing assets upfront. MT trade, Gaudreau departure, Marner situation, Monahan.

That 2014 season is interesting Hiller was a great 1A for Ramo. Hudler, an undersized depth player broke out, and they had great gains in pre existing youth like Gaudreau, Monahan and Brodie. Yeah, Brodie was young once upon a time. Gio was still old. After that it's 1 decent season and a bunch of mid to high first round pick type years

In hindsight you can argue the value and I wouldn't put Treliving on the winning side of that trade Fox trade.

But you have to consider this. It was 2018. Fox was a 3rd rounder coming out of the 2016 draft. And he would spend another year in the NCAA before rejecting Carolina and getting flipped for 2 second rounders.

The Flames did end up getting back the 5th overall pick in 2014 and 2015 in Hanifin and Lindholm and basically got 6 years of service out of both at 2C and Top 4 D.

I wouldn't characterize Treliving as a superstar as a GM, but maybe an unsung hero like Chris Tanev. Solid, underrated and can maneuver well under pressure and come out reasonably well all things considered. I'm not super excited about him but he feels like steady hands.

 

[Gallagbi]

In hindsight you can argue the value and I wouldn't put Treliving on the winning side of that trade Fox trade.

But you have to consider this. It was 2018. Fox was a 3rd rounder coming out of the 2016 draft. And he would spend another year in the NCAA before rejecting Carolina and getting flipped for 2 second rounders.

The Flames did end up getting back the 5th overall pick in 2014 and 2015 in Hanifin and Lindholm and basically got 6 years of service out of both at 2C and Top 4 D.

I wouldn't characterize Treliving as a superstar as a GM, but maybe an unsung hero like Chris Tanev. Solid, underrated and can maneuver well under pressure and come out reasonably well all things considered. I'm not super excited about him but he feels like steady hands.

What makes you think he's good under pressure? When I think of his pressure moves I think of MT, Fox/Hanifin, Monahan, this year's TDL. Pretty underwhelming

Hamilton had 3 years of control and Fox was incredibly highly touted at that point. It wasn't a flyer for NYR to nab him, he was viewed as a prize. Losing two top pair D for a top 4 and 2C isn't great.

 

[Stephen]

What makes you think he's good under pressure? When I think of his pressure moves I think of MT, Fox/Hanifin, Monahan, this year's TDL. Pretty underwhelming

Hamilton had 3 years of control and Fox was incredibly highly touted at that point. It wasn't a flyer for NYR to nab him, he was viewed as a prize. Losing two top pair D for a top 4 and 2C isn't great.

The Matthew Tkachuk situation was pretty unprecedented in the NHL though. It was like he was presented with an NBA style ultimatum and he extracted a 115 point scorer (second in NHL scoring in 2022) and a number 2 defenseman out of Florida in the sign and trade, while simultaneously having to replace outgoing Gaudreau who was tied for 2nd in scoring. Not sure what the equivalent of that trade would be like in a Toronto 2025 context, but something like Marner is leaving for nothing, out of his control. So he trades a disgruntled William Nylander for Kyle Connor and Neal Pionk?

You have to consider what Carolina got for Adam Fox in 2019. 2x second round picks from the Rangers. One year after packaging off 2 recent top 5 picks to get him and another Dman.

You don't have to like him though. He's just ok.

 

[Gallagbi]

The Matthew Tkachuk situation was pretty unprecedented in the NHL though. It was like he was presented with an NBA style ultimatum and he extracted a 115 point scorer (second in NHL scoring in 2022) and a number 2 defenseman out of Florida in the sign and trade, while simultaneously having to replace outgoing Gaudreau who was tied for 2nd in scoring. Not sure what the equivalent of that trade would be like in a Toronto 2025 context, but something like Marner is leaving for nothing, out of his control. So he trades a disgruntled William Nylander for Kyle Connor and Neal Pionk?

You have to consider what Carolina got for Adam Fox in 2019. 2x second round picks from the Rangers. One year after packaging off 2 recent top 5 picks to get him and another Dman.

You don't have to like him though. He's just ok.

Unusual, but still an opportunity. Also seems like he's lost a lot of highly regarded FAs.

It just feels like such a middle of the road GM.

 

[Gabriel426]

?

Backstrom. Ovy. Carlson. Wilson.
Marner. Matthews. Nylander. Rielly.

Toronto has completely changed its supporting cast around those 4 players multiple times.

To be fair, Ovie’s original core includes Mike Green and Semin. Carlson didn’t really shine till Green. Wilson came in later, kind of like Knies now.

 

[Gabriel426]

Unusual, but still an opportunity. Also seems like he's lost a lot of highly regarded FAs.

It just feels like such a middle of the road GM.

Calgary is a different market than Toronto.

Honestly, I thought Tre did really well with the Tkachuk’s trade giving the circumstances and signing Kadri that off season was a good move too.
I think if we go back to that summer and look at the free agent/trade thread or around the league threads, I am pretty sure the majority of fans thought Tre did a great job that summer.

In hindsight, it looks bad now but if Hubie scored around 90 points(at that time of the trade, he was pencilled in as LW with McD’s line on Team Canada) and Panthers didn’t go to back to back Finals and winning a Cup, it is a trade that favor Tre more than Zito.

 

[Gabriel426]

Are you aware of the state of the Calgary Flames in 2014 when Treliving was hired?

They were headed towards a total scored earth rebuild in their post Jarome Iginla years and somehow managed to patch it up and emerge as a respectable team in a short period of time.

Drafted Bennett, Andersson, Tkachuk and Fox.

Was Markstrom signing a win? A good litmus test is if you can name the Flames starting goalie before him.

He also signed Tanev that year too.

 

[Gabriel426]

Are you aware of the state of them when he was fired?



Glad he can produce a "respectable" team... and then he ruined them.



You just listed 5 players and 4 aren't with the team anymore... most traded by him, and in trades he lost.

Anyway, you can think that he did well, you'd be wrong, but you can think that.

Maybe he learned his lessons, lol.

 

[Stephen]

He also signed Tanev that year too.

He also almost closed Brodie and Jankowski for Kadri. Ooof.

 

[Gallagbi]

Calgary is a different market than Toronto.

Honestly, I thought Tre did really well with the Tkachuk’s trade giving the circumstances and signing Kadri that off season was a good move too.
I think if we go back to that summer and look at the free agent/trade thread or around the league threads, I am pretty sure the majority of fans thought Tre did a great job that summer.

In hindsight, it looks bad now but if Hubie scored around 90 points(at that time of the trade, he was pencilled in as LW with McD’s line on Team Canada) and Panthers didn’t go to back to back Finals and winning a Cup, it is a trade that favor Tre more than Zito.

I was against the MT return at the time because I thought they missed a beautiful opportunity to rebuild that was desperately needed. Others definitely disagreed.

Kadri was fine. Dumping Monahan along with a first to make room though was ROUGH. Same as the outcome of the Huberdeau and Weegar deal. Half decent return asset wise, bad projection, questionable fit and then bad signings.

I guess my question is what gives us faith in his ability to elevate this team?

 

[Stephen]

Unusual, but still an opportunity. Also seems like he's lost a lot of highly regarded FAs.

It just feels like such a middle of the road GM.

Yeah I think he’s meat and potatoes as a GM.

Losing UFAs is also dictated by circumstances though. Calgary factor.

 

[Stephen]

To be fair, Ovie’s original core includes Mike Green and Semin. Carlson didn’t really shine till Green. Wilson came in later, kind of like Knies now.

The missing ingredient is we didn’t draft a John Carlson in the intervening years of competition.

 

[The Shadow]

I’ve been really happy so far with what Tre and his team have done. Great deals for Tanev and OEL with the cap going up

- please just don’t give out no trade clauses like candy moving forward and be very careful who you’re signing with extensive term

However I don’t like giving up the 1st rounders but that’s just me because of the lack of young talent coming

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I’ve been really happy so far with what Tre and his team have done. Great deals for Tanev and OEL with the cap going up

- please just don’t give out no trade clauses like candy moving forward and be very careful who you’re signing with extensive term

However I don’t like giving up the 1st rounders but that’s just me because of the lack of young talent coming

More NTC/NMC's are coming, I'm telling you, it's just the reality

 

[Gabriel426]

I was against the MT return at the time because I thought they missed a beautiful opportunity to rebuild that was desperately needed. Others definitely disagreed.

Kadri was fine. Dumping Monahan along with a first to make room though was ROUGH. Same as the outcome of the Huberdeau and Weegar deal. Half decent return asset wise, bad projection, questionable fit and then bad signings.

I guess my question is what gives us faith in his ability to elevate this team?

I would say, hopefully he learned his lessons and grow from it.
Lessons could be not letting assets walk and panic signs UFA or most importantly, getting the right fit for success in playoffs.

 

[Gabriel426]

The missing ingredient is we didn’t draft a John Carlson in the intervening years of competition.

We did tried but those two just didn’t turn into solid Dman. Lilly and Sandin could be our Carlson but neither reaches their projected potentials.
Would be interesting if Lilly actually didn’t had mono and was drafted in Makar’s spot while Makar dropped to us. As I just don’t think Makar can become Makar if he starts with the Leafs.

 

[Stephen]

We did tried but those two just didn’t turn into solid Dman. Lilly and Sandin could be our Carlson but neither reaches their projected potentials.
Would be interesting if Lilly actually didn’t had mono and was drafted in Makar’s spot while Makar dropped to us. As I just don’t think Makar can become Makar if he starts with the Leafs.

Yeah, getting Lily in 2017 felt like the final piece to the dynasty haha. I thought he was going to be a Charlie McAvoy type to finish the puzzle.

I liked K'Andre Miller in 2018 before they traded down to Sandin and NYR traded up. Thought he might have been something really special given his untapped athleticism.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yeah, getting Lily in 2017 felt like the final piece to the dynasty haha. I thought he was going to be a Charlie McAvoy type to finish the puzzle.

I liked K'Andre Miller in 2018 before they traded down to Sandin and NYR traded up. Thought he might have been something really special given his untapped athleticism.

But Dubas is in love with Sandin type Dmen