OT: CHL Players to be Eligible for NCAA

[Lindgren]

This news probably won't generate a lot of discussion (and apologies if it's already been discussed in a different thread), but I think it's rather significant. The NCAA, beginning next year, will no longer be deeming Major Junior players ineligible.

My first reaction is that this could be a very serious blow to the BCHL and other similar leagues, but the ramifications surely go beyond that. (Viewing things optimistically, perhaps it will lead to some changes in the culture of junior hockey. I can imagine a player being subjected to the uglier side of junior life deciding to move on to the NCAA rather than sticking it out in , say, Medicine Hat.)

Here's the CBC's story on the move:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ncaa-decision-b-c-junior-hockey-league-1.7379982

Click to read more...

 

[Bubbles]

The Prospects board and the Business board has had some good discussion threads about the subject.


Every time some one discusses BCHL or even WHL on the Canucks board, I get crickets lol.

 

[Lindgren]

The Prospects board and the Business board has had some good discussion threads about the subject.


Every time some one discusses BCHL or even WHL on the Canucks board, I get crickets lol.

If I'd only found a way to connect the post to Willander somehow ... or the Sprong trade.

 

[Frostage]

It seems like the BCHL will get hit quite hard from this. I wonder if and how the league will do anything to respond.

 

[Lindgren]

It seems like the BCHL will get hit quite hard from this. I wonder if and how the league will do anything to respond.

That was my thought as well. On first view, it looks like it could be a real blow to that league.

 

[Blue and Green]

This news probably won't generate a lot of discussion (and apologies if it's already been discussed in a different thread), but I think it's rather significant. The NCAA, beginning next year, will no longer be deeming Major Junior players ineligible.

My first reaction is that this could be a very serious blow to the BCHL and other similar leagues, but the ramifications surely go beyond that. (Viewing things optimistically, perhaps it will lead to some changes in the culture of junior hockey. I can imagine a player being subjected to the uglier side of junior life deciding to move on to the NCAA rather than sticking it out in , say, Medicine Hat.)

Here's the CBC's story on the move:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ncaa-decision-b-c-junior-hockey-league-1.7379982

It's a boon to CHL (especially U18 talent) and NCAA (especially 20+ talent). It's a blow to Junior A (and BCHL), USHL and CIS.

Might act as an impetus for two changes that I think would be positive: restricting the number of 18YO's that get drafted (requires NHL and NHLPA agreement via the CBA) and allowing 18YO/19YO CHLers with signed ELC's to play in the AHL (via amendments to the CHL-NHL agreement).

BTW, there are some ugly sides to NCAA hockey, too. Schools backing away from commitments to players; scholarships that are typically annual in nature and don't always get renewed. And a number of NCAA locations for notable hockey programs-- such as Grand Forks, ND or Duluth, MN-- are probably not any nicer than the CHL towns for spending a winter. (Medicine Hat is far enough west that it isn't nearly as cold as places on similar latitudes that are farther east on the prairies/plains. It's also Canada's sunniest city!)

 

[sting101]

I think it's great.

It will be hard on the 2nd tier junior quality and potentially community support but ultimately provides more options for development and education

Will be interesting to see if the U sport teams will continue down that path or want to crossover to NCAA. SFU is already trying to make this a reality and has NCAA membership

 

[Lindgren]

It's a boon to CHL (especially U18 talent) and NCAA (especially 20+ talent). It's a blow to Junior A (and BCHL), USHL and CIS.

Might act as an impetus for two changes that I think would be positive: restricting the number of 18YO's that get drafted (requires NHL and NHLPA agreement via the CBA) and allowing 18YO/19YO CHLers with signed ELC's to play in the AHL (via amendments to the CHL-NHL agreement).

BTW, there are some ugly sides to NCAA hockey, too. Schools backing away from commitments to players; scholarships that are typically annual in nature and don't always get renewed. And a number of NCAA locations for notable hockey programs-- such as Grand Forks, ND or Duluth, MN-- are probably not any nicer than the CHL towns for spending a winter. (Medicine Hat is far enough west that it isn't nearly as cold as places on similar latitudes that are farther east on the prairies/plains. It's also Canada's sunniest city!)

Yes, there's certainly plenty that's ugly about the NCAA.

Ever read "Meat on the Hoof," about Alabama football in the sixties?

 

[Blue and Green]

Yes, there's certainly plenty that's ugly about the NCAA.

Ever read "Meat on the Hoof," about Alabama football in the sixties?

I have not, but I've heard/read plenty of stories over the years about what goes on.

 

[StreetHawk]

I believe you can’t go from chl to ncaa until you complete your chl agreement til you are 20. So if you wish to play in ncaa as an 18 year old FR you would still go bchl or ushl at 17.
The rule allows the 20 year olds from chl to continue their hockey career in ncaa.
I would imagine kids drafted in the top 2 rounds are more likely to go to the ahl at 20 vs NCAA. Kids from rounds 3 onwards probably have to really evaluate their pro chances. Less likely it is then it makes more sense to go NCAA.

 

[Blue and Green]

I think it's great.

It will be hard on the 2nd tier junior quality and potentially community support but ultimately provides more options for development and education

Will be interesting to see if the U sport teams will continue down that path or want to crossover to NCAA. SFU is already trying to make this a reality and has NCAA membership

Going to full NCAA membership has some drawbacks which is why only SFU, which had a history of participating in NAIA, has taken the plunge. SFU might have dreams of Div 1 hockey but it already has a substantial athletics debt, I don't know where the funding would come from-- and its ex-football team routinely was demolished by NCAA Div 2 teams, so I doubt that other Canadian university schools are going to be all that enticed about pitting their athletes against that level of competition. CIS hockey doesn't have much of a following anyway so if it drops a bit in calibre, few will really care.

I believe you can’t go from chl to ncaa until you complete your chl agreement til you are 20. So if you wish to play in ncaa as an 18 year old FR you would still go bchl or ushl at 17.
The rule allows the 20 year olds from chl to continue their hockey career in ncaa.
I would imagine kids drafted in the top 2 rounds are more likely to go to the ahl at 20 vs NCAA. Kids from rounds 3 onwards probably have to really evaluate their pro chances. Less likely it is then it makes more sense to go NCAA.

It's said to be in the works that CHLers of any age will be able to opt-out in the off-season and go to the NCAA (as long as they are academically qualified and haven't signed a pro contract). They'll just have to forfeit their CHL scholarship funding if they leave before their non-overage eligibility is completed.

 

[sting101]

Going to full NCAA membership has some drawbacks which is why only SFU, which had a history of participating in NAIA, has taken the plunge. SFU might have dreams of Div 1 hockey but it already has a substantial athletics debt, I don't know where the funding would come from-- and its ex-football team routinely was demolished by NCAA Div 2 teams, so I doubt that other Canadian university schools are going to be all that enticed about pitting their athletes against that level of competition. CIS hockey doesn't have much of a following anyway so if it drops a bit in calibre, few will really care.

People will care as much as they care about CHL or more if the quality is better and you get a Celebrini at SFU vs a US school. It might take some time sure but that's not a reason to poo poo attempts to elevate local programs

What are the drawbacks? The football program has little relevance to hockey which would be flush with available talent locally if it was a good program.

I think it's great. Could care less about fall out to junior if it means going forward 18-23 hockey can be attached to education. Let's be honest for 99% of players that's a great accomplishment to finish with a degree while playing NCAA Div 1

 

[VanJack]

It seems like the BCHL will get hit quite hard from this. I wonder if and how the league will do anything to respond.

I'm not sure this will be the case. One of the advantages of playing in Tier II junior leagues like the BCJHL and the AJHL is the reduced travel and games.

Players can live at home and attend regular classes in high school. And by working on their studies as well as hockey, they can achieve the grades they need to qualify for NCAA scholarships.

Players in the CHL have it a lot tougher. Far longer bus rides and an NHL-type schedule. The schedule is so heavy that some players have to be tutored while they're traveling through the hinterlands of Canada.

Once a player hits the CHL at age 17-18, chances are that's where they'll spend their careers. I suppose it's possible that some 19-20 year-olds might escape from Major Junior to the NCAA. But I again, I just don't see it being a flood of players.

So this rule change is a good thing imo. Amateur hockey players should be able to play wherever they want to play, with no restrictions. Besides, the courts indicated there was no way they'd uphold the NCAA ban on Major Junior players anyway.

 

[Bubbles]

People will care as much as they care about CHL or more if the quality is better and you get a Celebrini at SFU vs a US school. It might take some time sure but that's not a reason to poo poo attempts to elevate local programs

What are the drawbacks? The football program has little relevance to hockey which would be flush with available talent locally if it was a good program.

I think it's great. Could care less about fall out to junior if it means going forward 18-23 hockey can be attached to education. Let's be honest for 99% of players that's a great accomplishment to finish with a degree while playing NCAA Div 1

Man you are totally jumping the gun. We are talking about the possibility of Div II hockey, we are not talking about the blue bloods like BC, Mass, Michigan in Div 1.

You can't just snap your fingers and declare a program open. Where does the money come from? Part of the reason some of those big US teams can be that funded is that their football/basketball programs make so much money to subsidize anything.

There's lots of WHL/CHL alumni in USports, you just haven't paid attention. UBC, U of A and U of S are filled with local talent. Tons of kids getting and education and playing hockey.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'm not sure this will be the case. One of the advantages of playing in Tier II junior leagues like the BCJHL and the AJHL is the reduced travel and games.

Players can live at home and attend regular classes in high school. And by working on their studies as well as hockey, they can achieve the grades they need to qualify for NCAA scholarships.

Players in the CHL have it a lot tougher. Far longer bus rides and an NHL-type schedule. The schedule is so heavy that some players have to be tutored while they're traveling through the hinterlands of Canada.

Once a player hits the CHL at age 17-18, chances are that's where they'll spend their careers. I suppose it's possible that some 19-20 year-olds might escape from Major Junior to the NCAA. But I again, I just don't see it being a flood of players.

So this rule change is a good thing imo. Amateur hockey players should be able to play wherever they want to play, with no restrictions. Besides, the courts indicated there was no way they'd uphold the NCAA ban on Major Junior players anyway.

Travel in the WHL is much harder than in the O/Q. The biggest jump for the vast majority of players in the CHL is from their draft year to their draft +1 season. They may be a 55/60 point player in their draft and then jump to like 85/90 points the following. So, most probably would still benefit by staying in the CHL until they are 19 (for non late birthdays). Would then give them some time to upgrade a course to take another course to boost their grades to qualify for NCAA or post secondary.

But, in the NCAA, scholarships are not for the full 4 years. It is renewed year to year. With the transfer portal, seeing more kids switch schools. Increased competition for those scholarships also means that your scholarship could get pulled the following season. Whether this then causes more programs to adopt Men's hockey, will have to be determined. How many other schools in the Big10 like Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern, etc. going to compete in the highest level with Michigan/Minnesota/OSU/PSU/Michigan St?

 

[Blue and Green]

I'm not sure this will be the case. One of the advantages of playing in Tier II junior leagues like the BCJHL and the AJHL is the reduced travel and games.

Players can live at home and attend regular classes in high school. And by working on their studies as well as hockey, they can achieve the grades they need to qualify for NCAA scholarships.

Players in the CHL have it a lot tougher. Far longer bus rides and an NHL-type schedule. The schedule is so heavy that some players have to be tutored while they're traveling through the hinterlands of Canada.

I agree with some of what you're saying, but BCHL has already lost a 3rd-round choice from last summer's NHL draft to the OHL.

It's going to be tougher to get into the NCAA now because the quantity and quality of available players has just been boosted in a big way. The talk is all about CHL to NCAA but there are also going to be a fair number of ex-CHLers in CIS who'll be recruited, too. Some of those kids who would spend four years in BCHL or USHL before getting into the NCAA at age 20, they might not make it now. CHL scholarship funds might be looking good as a backup plan for those types of players, and BCHL can't compete with that. Plus, most CHL to NCAA moves will be done at age 20, which gives those guys a fair bit of time to get their academics in order.

BCHL and the top Junior A leagues will feed more to CHL and CIS now, less to NCAA.

 

[VanJack]

I guess it's possible that with a larger pool of players available, more universities in the U.S. will take up Div. I NCAA men's hockey.

But frankly I doubt that happens. In so many programs in the U.S. it's football and basketball, all the time and every day. Baseball comes in a strong third at a lot of schools. Devoting resources to hockey just won't happen, particularly in a lot of the Southern U.S. States.

Rather than a flood of CHL players joining the NCAA, it's more likely like we'll see more kids from Europe like future Canucks Tom Wilander and Aku Koskenuvo coming over to join Ivy league schools on prestigious scholarships.

 

[Blue and Green]

Rather than a flood of CHL players joining the NCAA, it's more likely like we'll see more kids from Europe like future Canucks Tom Wilander and Aku Koskenuvo coming over to join Ivy league schools on prestigious scholarships.

CHL is going to become the primary feeder of talent to the NCAA. Followed by USHL. Why would NCAA prioritize Europe when they'll have a ton of good talent to choose from in North America?

Ivy League schools don't offer athletic scholarships. They offer financial aid.