Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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The lower tuition fees in Canada are because the schools are handsomely subsidized by government.
Canadian universities may not have the frat houses and sporting facilities that American schools have, but in terms of education, unless you’re talking an Ivy League school, your education and degree (the things that are actually supposed to matter most in all of this) are every bit as good (or better in some cases) from McGill, University of Toronto, Queens or UBC than they would be from Minnesota, Michigan, UMASS, North Dakota or wherever else.
Canadian universities may not have the frat houses and sporting facilities that American schools have, but in terms of education, unless you’re talking an Ivy League school, your education and degree (the things that are actually supposed to matter most in all of this) are every bit as good (or better in some cases) from McGill, University of Toronto, Queens or UBC than they would be from Minnesota, Michigan, UMASS, North Dakota or wherever else.
I agree with you on UMass, which is just a state school, and North Dakota. But not for Michigan and Minnesota.
If you are trying to get a job in the US, a US degree holds way more clout than a Canadian degree.
If there are two applicants that are equal in everything across the board, the US degree will win out 99.9% of the time.
Golden_Jet
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In Canada, the CDN degree has more clout.
you don’t really know, you just typed that.
In the OHL game yesterday the OHL commish? was asked about the new agreements and made a point of saying "the CHL is the top development league, and we will continue to develop our players for the next level"
Sounded like they were just fine with players developing here and leaving for the NCAA later. I think you just see the league get a bit younger, but the best 16/17 YO's will still play CHL. Why wouldn't you?
I get it for the odd top 18 YO who maybe has nothing left in Junior, or the 19/20 YO whose pro future is slim.
Sounded like they were just fine with players developing here and leaving for the NCAA later. I think you just see the league get a bit younger, but the best 16/17 YO's will still play CHL. Why wouldn't you?
I get it for the odd top 18 YO who maybe has nothing left in Junior, or the 19/20 YO whose pro future is slim.
TheBeastCoast
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Kingpin794
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I think he's not sweating the loss of a handful of 18/19 year olds because its going to be a net benefit in the end. In the last ten years the OHL averages about 4 NHL picks per team. Say for every NHL pick that leaves early you add 1.1-1.2 NHL picks, the top end isn't as good but you make a deeper league overall. That's the number to watch over the next 5 years. Overall age or top 10 picks are secondary. But if CHL leagues pick up an additional 10-20% of NHL talent on a year to year basis, then it all works out. CHL and NCAA both get what they want.
Hockeyville USA
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Boonk
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Kingpin794
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They got quite a few guys that could fit the bill. Romani, Patterson.
Blue and Green
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Where to start...
First, the scholarship can be used at non-Canadian schools. So if a guy is 20 or 21 and hasn't received a D1 scholarship, he could use his CHL scholarship at a D3 school and quite possibly get some financial aid on top of that. Might very well end up with a better situation than a partial schollie from a D1 school. I would think that D3 schools should welcome CHL scholarships to cut down on the financial aid.
"Low end Canada state school"... you mean like Toronto, McGill, UBC (my alma mater)? These three schools are consistently ranked in the top 50 in the world-- Toronto typically lands in the top 25-- and there's one for each of the three CHL leagues. Plus plenty of other good Canadian schools. Some Americans do attend university in Canada, believe it or not, and demand is rising at the better ones. UBC receiving more applications from the U.S.: up by 27%
Wealthy USA hockey people... like Matthews' family? Eichel's family? I could go on and on here... and of course, the CHL scholarship will mean next to nothing to the genuine pro prospects, most of the sure-fire four-year D1 prospects, and kids from wealthy families... but there are going to be lots of solid junior players in Canada and the US who don't fit into any of those categories.
Kingpin794
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Yeah I don't know why Americans buy into the whole idea that we are the pinnacle of excellence in most things (or anything for that matter). Also people can poo poo those non DI schools all they want by some of them are amazing learning institutions that will provide for their post hockey careers. Just because a university doesn't have a football team playing on national TV doesn't mean its not worth going there.
Blue and Green
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Yes. D1 is going to strengthen, that's beyond debate. CHL should at least hold its own. It's the other junior leagues and USports that are going to take the hit. What CHL is going to have to do is adapt to the new reality that it will no longer keep all but the very best of its talent for four years, but it's now going to have a stronger base of 16YO/17YO talent from which to maintain.
USA is number one in a lot of areas. It's just a matter of options. When it comes to hockey the CHL is a legitimate option for Americans to consider due to calibre of play and educational funding.
Probably does but the discussion was about Americans getting a Canadian degree. It was insinuated that the American would move back to and work in America
Closer to 100% than 99.9%
TheBeastCoast
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Blue and Green
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Correct. Thus, whereas a 19YO from USHL/BCHL/Junior A likely has no particular reason not to go if the D1 school says that they'll accept him, the CHLer will be giving up something of potential insurance value by leaving at 19, Perhaps he'll want an extra year guaranteed on his D1 scholarship. Or, he might decide that the CHL is just fine for one more year (and a lot of D1 programs will probably be a-okay with intake at age 20 instead of 19, in fact might prefer it as long as they feel good about the likelihood that the guy will still stay for four years). Or, maybe he will go, but he has options and a bit of leverage.
Another Minnesota kid to the dub...was just drafted by Des Moines in the 3rd round of the USHL entry draft
The new reality of recruiting out of the CHL.....the elite talent is to tempting to pass up but the culture and mindset is different and defections to the pros is real.
Y
I remember somebody said at the end the only entity that wins big with be NCAA schools . Obviously , ushl , bchl every junior program will be taking a big hit . However , yea the CHL will get some stud USA players but what if they start losing their “ star players “ during draft year which is coming. In the future -Mcdavids- schaefer ect will be playing their draft year at USA colleges and the majority of them will stay 2 total years . Remember , their is no loyalty in sports and once a couple start going and the NCAA is dramatically better league than CHL that will be the normal path . In the end the only big winner will be US college hockey !
Henry Brzustewicz maybe too (although some say he was cut).
Others maybe Antonio Stranges, Christian Dvorak
There are plenty of good schools on both sides of the border...not my place to say which path is better academically.
But I do think many US kids see the CHL education package as underwhelming...and was never really the reason they went to to Junior A. The end-game has always been NCAA for most...and most kids will go play juniors because...it is how they get accepted into school. And some, as you point out, don't need the money, but want the higher education...especially from northeast prep schools (Ivy leagues don't offer any hockey scholarships).
(it will be interesting to see how different schools react...will they still push for kids to play BCHL, USHL, etc...or will they ask them to play CHL?)
Blue and Green
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That D1 seems destined to come out the best from this change has been understood by everyone save for a few head-in-sand types.
However, I'm not sure why you think that the kids with birthdays in the Jan 1 - Sept 15 range (you mentioned McDavid and Schaefer as examples) are going to be playing in the NCAA in their age 17 pre-draft season. That's a fairly rare occurrence; the only two guys that pop to my mind in the last decade or so are Werenski and Celebrini, maybe there was someone else but it's uncommon. For the most part it's just the guys who turn 18 after Sept 15 (e.g. Eichel, Power, Fantilli, McKenna) that are likely to have accumulated the schooling required to play in the NCAA in their pre-draft season.
As well, if the CHL-NHL agreement is revised to allow CHL draftees to play in the AHL at age 18/19, that will reduce the number of higher-end guys who will move to D1 at those ages. If I was the CHL commissioner, in addition to things that I could directly negotiate I would also be pushing the NHL to increase the compensation for ELC players by a significant amount, to get them to sign ELC's as soon as possible. Probably the NHL understands that it's going to have to make AHL life a little more financially appealing for guys on ELC's now that NIL is becoming more established. If I'm Bettman, I see the ability for CHLers to move to D1 as mostly a good thing... unless/until a player is ready for NHL or AHL. Then I want him signed and in one of those leagues, not hanging out in D1.
There are going to be significant changes in reaction to the CHLers-to-NCAA change.
I was thinking more these 2 guys as they are older, doubt an NHL 1st rounder this draft really decides until they get drafted but who knows and some guys are going to "de commit" or go back as there are only so many spots.
Hockeyville USA
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