CHL Can Now Play NCAA - Changes Everything

[Kingpin794]

Are the AHL and ECHL losers? I guess most of these 20 year-olds would be ECHL contracts at best and a lot U Sports but does this not kind of reduce the tap of minor pro signings a bit?

Does the AHL lose out on some higher end prospects, at least initially, who would rather be in college for a gap year or two, and then take their chances in the pros?

They'll lose out on less of them once the new CBA comes through.

 

[Kingpin794]

The USHL 18-20 year olds are largely undrafted or late drafted guys. Many weren't playing Junior Hockey full time until they were 18 and were still in MN HS/Prep School before then.

The highest end Americans go NTDP and are out by 18 (some lower end/trending bust NTDP players stick around, before a few years ago, some would go play CHL, which will probably start happening again in the interim of NTDP and college).

Then there were only a couple of very high end tenders per note, which isn't going to effect averages.

Don't think anyone doubts low-end 18-20 year olds will hang around CHL all the same.

ok.

But that none of this refutes my original point. Older players will always fill in the void. The CHL is not going to get younger in all likelyhood. Folks just assume it will for superficial reasons.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Are the AHL and ECHL losers? I guess most of these 20 year-olds would be ECHL contracts at best and a lot U Sports but does this not kind of reduce the tap of minor pro signings a bit?

Does the AHL lose out on some higher end prospects, at least initially, who would rather be in college for a gap year or two, and then take their chances in the pros?

ECHL overwhelmingly recruits college players because they're older/further along by the time they're done than CHL guys. It's not really a development league. I would say AHL Contract players (many of which play in the ECHL) aren't really development players either. Some OAs get AHL Contracts for sure maybe in the form of bonus prospects, but NHL teams already have 50 contract slots as is, so chances are if a prospect is intriguing at all (even if undrafted) they've got an NHL ELC already while anyone that is a young AHL Contract player is sort of fighting upstream against a development team that is overwhelmingly prioritizing its former draft picks. AHL contract slots are largely about getting players that can help the AHL team try to win (especially so in instances where the AHL team is not owned directly by the NHL affiliate, i.e., Hershey, Chicago, Charlotte, etc.). Now AHL Contract/ECHL contract players are just going to be from a wider pool of this older talent. It'd be rare, for instance, for a player that has remaining NCAA Eligibility to leave early to sign an AHL Contract (whereas they'll sign NHL ELCs all the time, which will still happen and lead to steady stream of good prospects playing in the AHL).

 

[Bonin21]

ECHL is trash anyways.

 

[WarriorofTime]

ok.

But that none of this refutes my original point. Older players will always fill in the void. The CHL is not going to get younger in all likelyhood. Folks just assume it will for superficial reasons.

Less 18-19 year old future notable NHL talent I guess is better way to phrase it

Could see scenario in all likelihood where the future Canada U20 team is mostly NCAA players (maybe some AHL players too), instead of what it's typically been which is like 18 CHL players.

 

[WarriorofTime]

ECHL is trash anyways.

ECHL is pretty solid. Like they'd thrash high-end college teams. Many of them are good enough to play in the good Euro leagues, but import restrictions/cultural desire, etc. keep them domestic. Real prospects do get sent down there (granted it's obviously not a good sign for their trajectory), and it's not impossible, albeit unlikely, to go from ECHL to NHL (Carter Verhaege for instance)

Once you get below that (SPHL/FPHL), it starts to look a lot like glorified Men's League

 

[wickedwitch]

I don't think the AHL will be losers, but I do think they'll be getting a tiny bit older. Many players who had gone CHL -> AHL -> NHL will now be going NCAA at least for part if not all the time they would have been in the AHL.

 

[wickedwitch]

Also, I think that the CBA should raise the AHL salary for the ELC or at least allow teams to choose to increase it. The low salary is an issue in places like San Jose (and probably Toronto/Montreal) where players have a hard time affording to live on that salary in those markets. Allowing for a slightly higher salary will alleviate those concerns and prevent players from avoiding the AHL for that reason. That's a pretty simple fix.

 

[2Mototik2]

BCHL. Brokeaway from Hockey Canada to market selves as the pre-eminent Canadian destination for the NCAA prospects, with a lot of fluidity and movement between USHL-BCHL. All of their gripes were essentially about how Hockey Canada would approve transfers to the USHL, but domestic players not in the BC region were largely confined to their local Junior A association. So by being a breakaway, they could get Canadian 17 year old players that were opting for the NCAA route without being confined to these various restrictions. That looks to have lasted all of a couple years at most. Now what even is it? May have to crawl back to being a Hockey Canada sanctioned Junior A league again.

I'm very interested to see what the BCHL will do, especially after losing Penticton this year and then (still potentially) Chilliwack next. I could still see them staying independent because of pride because I don't know if they'll want to go back to Hockey Canada hat in hand, especially the Alberta teams, and then they can still have first pick of players who don't like their CHL station if they are independent.

Online rumours suggest some of the teams are in over their heads being independent, so I could see more teams individually joining back up with Hockey Canada as opposed to the entire league.

That whole "Eli McKamey exceptional status, to a level of response to Landon Dupont" really didn't work out for them.

USHL will lose some talent and the days of the elite Canadian tender are over, but at the end of the day, it's the Tier I USA Junior Hockey League. That still fills an important "role" in the hockey development pyramid. Probably should be more flexible about giving younger players a chance, something the CHL leagues have always done, and not being so rigidly post-high school of a league.

I also think the USHL still has a role as not all American players are going to want to move to a different country at 16-17. Yeah, their USHL team could still be far away from home but at least it's in the same country.

 

[Bonin21]

ECHL is pretty solid. Like they'd thrash high-end college teams

Doubtful. The players graduating from the top NCAA schools and then going to play ECHL are just not very good like 3rd liners on the college team the year before. It's a last hope league.

 

[Kingpin794]

 

[Boonk]

I'm very interested to see what the BCHL will do, especially after losing Penticton this year and then (still potentially) Chilliwack next. I could still see them staying independent because of pride because I don't know if they'll want to go back to Hockey Canada hat in hand, especially the Alberta teams, and then they can still have first pick of players who don't like their CHL station if they are independent.

Online rumours suggest some of the teams are in over their heads being independent, so I could see more teams individually joining back up with Hockey Canada as opposed to the entire league.

That whole "Eli McKamey exceptional status, to a level of response to Landon Dupont" really didn't work out for them.



I also think the USHL still has a role as not all American players are going to want to move to a different country at 16-17. Yeah, their USHL team could still be far away from home but at least it's in the same country.

The BCHL is cooked with Penticton and Chilliwack leaving. Two of the biggest jewels of the league gone and they spearheaded the whole independent leaving the CJHL-Hockey Canada venture. Theyd have to go back to Hockey Canada in defeat, they just dont have the money, facilities or education programs to compete with any of the CHL or USHL even with the Alberta defectors. Canadians and Americans playing there are barred from international events, and their league has no player-protection agreements. The CJHL Jr. A teams will just transition to farm teams for the CHL clubs nearby and the BCHL will be cut out from that. Theyre in a very bad spot and I dont think Hockey Canada particularly cares to save them and will let the league slowly crumble.

 

[rocketdan9]

If I were the CHL, I would place a mandatory requirement that any player drafted in the top 20(each league) and committed to play in the CHL must complete two full seasons before allowed to transfer out of the league. Exception - if due to injury the player is unable to complete a full season.

For the CHL to sit and let NCAA recruiters poach top CHL prospects - it would end up diluting the skill level.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

If I were the CHL, I would place a mandatory requirement that any player drafted in the top 20(each league) and committed to play in the CHL must complete two full seasons before allowed to transfer out of the league. Exception - if due to injury the player is unable to complete a full season.

For the CHL to sit and let NCAA recruiters poach top CHL prospects - it would end up diluting the skill level.

If the CHL puts restrictions on player movement, then NCAA teams won't want to steer recruits to the CHL and instead will send all of their guys to the USHL

 

[Hanji]

If I were the CHL, I would place a mandatory requirement that any player drafted in the top 20(each league) and committed to play in the CHL must complete two full seasons before allowed to transfer out of the league. Exception - if due to injury the player is unable to complete a full season.

For the CHL to sit and let NCAA recruiters poach top CHL prospects - it would end up diluting the skill level.

That would be illegal.

The CHL can prohibit player movement within the CHL, but it can't prohibit players from leaving to play elsewhere. Doing as such would break all kinds of anti-trust and child labor laws.

 

[WarriorofTime]

If I were the CHL, I would place a mandatory requirement that any player drafted in the top 20(each league) and committed to play in the CHL must complete two full seasons before allowed to transfer out of the league. Exception - if due to injury the player is unable to complete a full season.

For the CHL to sit and let NCAA recruiters poach top CHL prospects - it would end up diluting the skill level.

Seems a bit dramatic. Keaton Verhoeff leaving after one (not two) season is going to be a pretty rare occurrence. Not worth the backlash.

Just open up more Exceptional Status if needed.

 

[Kingpin794]

I do enjoy some of the brain dead takes from some folks that think making the CHL less welcoming will help them in the long run.

 

[rocketdan9]

Delete

 

[rocketdan9]

Seems a bit dramatic. Keaton Verhoeff leaving after one (not two) season is going to be a pretty rare occurrence. Not worth the backlash.

Just open up more Exceptional Status if needed.

How can you be sure? I doubt Verhoeff wil be the only one.

You don't think if this new NCAA happened last year, Michael Misa wouldn't be poached? Or xyz.

Once a CHL player thinks they are ready to make the jump. And a NCAA would gladly take them.

 

[WarriorofTime]

There are ways around.

Like the AHL won't allow players of certain age to join. So instead they have to either stick with the NHL or go back to juniors.

Other than not allowing children, the AHL is not age-restricted. The CHL restriction relates to a provision in the NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement and a transfer agreement between leagues. Any teenager had the option to fulfill their 19 year old AHL playing dreams by not being drafted from a CHL team.

I think undrafted players could theoretically be signed to AHL Contracts as 19 year olds? Not entirely sure on that. It's not something you'd expect to see.

 

[WarriorofTime]

How can you be sure? I doubt Verhoeff wil be the only one.

You don't think if this new NCAA happened last year, Michael Misa wouldn't be poached? Or xyz.

Misa was ES so he'd have already played two seasons.

 

[ScoutyMcScoutface]

While it might take a couple years for the dust to settle, it looks like the cream of the crop draft eligible guys will be much more likely to come out of the NCAA.

What will be interesting is how many D+1 and D+2 players opt to sign NHL contracts while staying in the CHL rather than going the NCAA route ala Reschny.

 

[rocketdan9]

If the CHL puts restrictions on player movement, then NCAA teams won't want to steer recruits to the CHL and instead will send all of their guys to the USHL

I mean... don't they already do this? It doesn't work or wouldn't.... as the CHL has 3x more good players in their league.

At the end of the day, nothing wrong with what the NCAA did (rule change). Imo they should discuss iron out/prevent Verhoeff aged prospects from being poached. Thats my only beef about it.

 

[rocketdan9]

Misa was ES so he'd have already played two seasons.

Thats fine. Misa was an exception anyways.

Verhoeff is a prime example.

 

[rocketdan9]

While it might take a couple years for the dust to settle, it looks like the cream of the crop draft eligible guys will be much more likely to come out of the NCAA.

What will be interesting is how many D+1 and D+2 players opt to sign NHL contracts while staying in the CHL rather than going the NCAA route ala Reschny.

True. It becomes muddled.

If Reschny stayed in the WHL... got his 8 game tryout at the NHL level (example). Worst case, he would have a spot to return in the WHL.

Not sure what happens now. Seems like the prospects committed to the NCAA... have to stick with that decision.