Proposal: Chicago-Vancouver

[Kevin Musto]

Chicago doesn't need a RD

 

[BKarchitect]

Hronek is a great player.

Known top 5 draft picks (let’s make a distinction here between this and “future picks” that end up being high) are rarely ever traded, let alone for a player, let alone a player who will be 29 a month into the next season.

Nobody has a bad thing to say about Hronek - he would be awesome on any team. But that’s not what this is about. It’s about the currency of top 5 NHL draft picks and how teams who have them value them. We can play the “what about-ism” game in terms of Hronek and all the great stuff he does and that draft picks are just lottery tickets.

It doesn’t matter.

This is not the currency that is dealt for a Hronek…that’s not an opinion, that’s an objective fact based on pretty much all trades in the cap era. Hronek is a top pair defenseman, probably underrated by many…and he will absolutely not net Vancouver a top 5 draft pick. These ideas are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Good dman but no thanks from Chicago

 

[NVious]

Chicago doesn't need a RD

Why because of 25 year old Crevier? Or 2nd season Rinzel or 20 year old Levshunov?

Hronek (and Pettersson) would be perfect insulator(s) of their entire d core and the second one of them were able to be a top pairing D, there would be no problem moving 3.6 mill Hronek down. Getting them at no cap cost would also mean they could go out and either get Tuch or 2 of McMann/Marchment/Mantha.

Hronek is a great player.

Known top 5 draft picks (let’s make a distinction here between this and “future picks” that end up being high) are rarely ever traded, let alone for a player, let alone a player who will be 29 a month into the next season.

Nobody has a bad thing to say about Hronek - he would be awesome on any team. But that’s not what this is about. It’s about the currency of top 5 NHL draft picks and how teams who have them value them. We can play the “what about-ism” game in terms of Hronek and all the great stuff he does and that draft picks are just lottery tickets.

It doesn’t matter.

This is not the currency that is dealt for a Hronek…that’s not an opinion, that’s an objective fact based on pretty much all trades in the cap era. Hronek is a top pair defenseman, probably underrated by many…and he will absolutely not net Vancouver a top 5 draft pick. These ideas are not mutually exclusive.

Top 5 picks are usually not gotten by the teams with THE best prospect pool (top 2 at worst) in the NHL where they also have fielded an awful team around their #1 guy for 3 years.

This also doesn't happen in a rapidly changing salary cap market where 7D journeymen like Liljegren are getting 3x2 deals and where I'd argue worse comparables (Raddysh:Unproven, Andersson:Not as good) will be getting upwards of 10+ million more than Hronek at 3.6 mill. So as a whole, it's a totally unique situation with nothing remotely close to analogous in the past.

While I don't think it would be an insane amount more to get Fox or Werenski (2 more non Chicago firsts from next year), they outright may not waive or be available, they'd also be costing 6+ million, they'd be a flight risk and their CPA over the next 5 years might be 13+ million if they say "f*** it I've got you by the barrel, pay me 20 mill" and at that point there's nothing you can do because you likely would've shipped 2 more 1sts for them as well, so you'd HAVE to pay them. Whereas Hronek is obviously not as good, but you get him for the full 5 years, you'd be getting on average at least 6+ mill to spend (easily 8-10+ when you factor in their next contract in 2-3 years) AND there's no decision to make:

I.e if Lev or Rinzel take a massive step and look like near 1D themselves or about to be, do you then trade those bigger name guys or have you spent too much to get them and now you just have to pay them their 16-18-20 mill+? With Hronek who GAF? He's at 3.6 mill providing you perfect flexibility to slot him wherever.

Finally I'd say, shouldn't they go out and target defenseman anyways? Shouldn't they be in on Raddysh or Andersson? At some point you have to try and get better, but those guys will tax them more because they know they have other options with close enough money and a better shot to win the cup more immediately, so Chicago will likely be getting pushed for 14-15 mill by Raddysh and 12+ mill for Andersson. In theory, in choosing between Hronek at 3.6 and another 10+ mill to spend on a player or those guys, which is better? Ofc losing the pick sucks, but Chicago is utterly stacked on the wings as well with Frondell, Kantserov, Lardis, Nazar, Nestrasil, Vanacker so it's not even some massive positional need for them.

So I'd say this leverages a perfect opportunity for both teams:
Chicago's total stackage in all prospect areas, need for great veteran D, desire to add a winger with that (can straight up add Tuch or two of Mantha, Marchment, McMann), making room for future RFA contracts and Vancouver's need for top prospects, ability to retain (won't be competitive for another 2-3 years and contending for 4-5 years)

 

[Kevin Musto]

Why because of 25 year old Crevier? Or 2nd season Rinzel or 20 year old Levshunov?

yes, exactly

 

[Aquabat]

You don't trade the #4 pick for a "perfect insulator", regardless of how good his contract would be. The #4 pick or it's equivalent player should have the potential to be a true star. Hronek is good, but not that good. Some other team will likely give you more than the Hawks will, which will not include the #4 pick.

They will not be in on Raddysh or Andersson, they might get a vet D on a 1-year deal, but that's about it. Kyle Davidson's philosophy has been to draft and develop, and he'll likely start trading prospects/picks when he knows what he has from his current group, not before.

 

[Hull2Roenick2Kane]

Why because of 25 year old Crevier? Or 2nd season Rinzel or 20 year old Levshunov?

Hronek (and Pettersson) would be perfect insulator(s) of their entire d core and the second one of them were able to be a top pairing D, there would be no problem moving 3.6 mill Hronek down. Getting them at no cap cost would also mean they could go out and either get Tuch or 2 of McMann/Marchment/Mantha.


Top 5 picks are usually not gotten by the teams with THE best prospect pool (top 2 at worst) in the NHL where they also have fielded an awful team around their #1 guy for 3 years.

This also doesn't happen in a rapidly changing salary cap market where 7D journeymen like Liljegren are getting 3x2 deals and where I'd argue worse comparables (Raddysh:Unproven, Andersson:Not as good) will be getting upwards of 10+ million more than Hronek at 3.6 mill. So as a whole, it's a totally unique situation with nothing remotely close to analogous in the past.

While I don't think it would be an insane amount more to get Fox or Werenski (2 more non Chicago firsts from next year), they outright may not waive or be available, they'd also be costing 6+ million, they'd be a flight risk and their CPA over the next 5 years might be 13+ million if they say "f*** it I've got you by the barrel, pay me 20 mill" and at that point there's nothing you can do because you likely would've shipped 2 more 1sts for them as well, so you'd HAVE to pay them. Whereas Hronek is obviously not as good, but you get him for the full 5 years, you'd be getting on average at least 6+ mill to spend (easily 8-10+ when you factor in their next contract in 2-3 years) AND there's no decision to make:

I.e if Lev or Rinzel take a massive step and look like near 1D themselves or about to be, do you then trade those bigger name guys or have you spent too much to get them and now you just have to pay them their 16-18-20 mill+? With Hronek who GAF? He's at 3.6 mill providing you perfect flexibility to slot him wherever.

Finally I'd say, shouldn't they go out and target defenseman anyways? Shouldn't they be in on Raddysh or Andersson? At some point you have to try and get better, but those guys will tax them more because they know they have other options with close enough money and a better shot to win the cup more immediately, so Chicago will likely be getting pushed for 14-15 mill by Raddysh and 12+ mill for Andersson. In theory, in choosing between Hronek at 3.6 and another 10+ mill to spend on a player or those guys, which is better? Ofc losing the pick sucks, but Chicago is utterly stacked on the wings as well with Frondell, Kantserov, Lardis, Nazar, Nestrasil, Vanacker so it's not even some massive positional need for them.

So I'd say this leverages a perfect opportunity for both teams:
Chicago's total stackage in all prospect areas, need for great veteran D, desire to add a winger with that (can straight up add Tuch or two of Mantha, Marchment, McMann), making room for future RFA contracts and Vancouver's need for top prospects, ability to retain (won't be competitive for another 2-3 years and contending for 4-5 years)

no means no. Im scared to look into your dating history.

 

[ZombosNose]

Hronek is really good but he's not 4th overall good.

 

[sd1976]

Who cares about veteran D? They're replaced by the 2nd and 3rds.

Also as far as retention, who cares about that too if you also get Stenberg??

Finally, the cap dumps are for a year.

Is this Aqua's account?


7D journemyen like Liljegren are getting 3 mill, Pettersson is actually good value at 5.5, this isn't 2006 anymore and when Raddysh gets 12-14 mill and Andersson gets 10-12 mill, it'll become even more clear.

Oh god man. lol neither of those will ever happen.

And this trade is horibad for Chicago

 

[NVious]

You don't trade the #4 pick for a "perfect insulator", regardless of how good his contract would be. The #4 pick or it's equivalent player should have the potential to be a true star. Hronek is good, but not that good. Some other team will likely give you more than the Hawks will, which will not include the #4 pick.

They will not be in on Raddysh or Andersson, they might get a vet D on a 1-year deal, but that's about it. Kyle Davidson's philosophy has been to draft and develop, and he'll likely start trading prospects/picks when he knows what he has from his current group, not before.

Sorry Bedsy, we're perma tanking-HF
I'm open to trade it-Hawks actual GM

Draft and develop to what? To draft and develop? They have the best prospect pool in the NHL, there's a reason he's open to trading it. Probably because it's not good to let your franchise guy totally languish with no help.

Oh god man. lol neither of those will ever happen.

And this trade is horibad for Chicago

Definitely, getting a 1D man for 3.6 mill is horibad, they could've had 90% of Timothy Liljegren for that cost.

 

[Aquabat]

Sorry Bedsy, we're perma tanking-HF
I'm open to trade it-Hawks actual GM

Draft and develop to what? To draft and develop? They have the best prospect pool in the NHL, there's a reason he's open to trading it. Probably because it's not good to let your franchise guy totally languish with no help.


Definitely, getting a 1D man for 3.6 mill is horibad, they could've had 90% of Timothy Liljegren for that cost.

Ok, we don't want Hronek. Give it up already. We'll trade you Bertuzzi for your #3 pick though.

 

[elitepete]

To Chicago:
Hronek @ 50% retained
Marcus Pettersson

To Vancouver:
4th overall
2nd round pick
3rd round pick
Burakovsky+Mangiapane (cap dumps)

Chicago gets a good 1D in Hronek on the best contract in the NHL, they get a solid 4D in Pettersson giving all their young D plenty of insulation, much improving the team and ultimately only costing 9 mill for both of them. And they can use scenarios like this to bring down Bedsy's AAV in negotiations, i.e telling him if he takes a bit less, they will make trades to improve the team now.

Vancouver gets Stenberg and Malhotra. They get a 2nd to trade for Rielly to bring as a vet D and a 3rd to use two 3rds to bring in Nurse, so that they still have some experienced vets with high peaks (Nurse playoff success and Rielly being close to a Norris)

Holy f***. Canucks are not retaining 50% on Hronek for 6 years. Wtf is this garbage???

 

[TheImpatientBoomer]

OP makes 6 proposals a day where teams are retaining for 5-6 years and other team is giving up top 5-10 picks or 4 years worth of picks.

96% of the posters hate the proposals

And more proposals keep coming

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Very fair trade IMO. It would make Chicago a lot better immediately especially with Kantserov and Frondell contributing in the top 6 (hopefully). If I was KD it would definitely be something to consider. Nice proposal Nvious.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Trying to understand why Chicago needs retention…

 

[NVious]

OP makes 6 proposals a day where teams are retaining for 5-6 years and other team is giving up top 5-10 picks or 4 years worth of picks.

96% of the posters hate the proposals

And more proposals keep coming

In the last month I've made 5, but yeah 5 a day, 5 a month same shit.

People hate it because I put the screws on both teams and maximize returns for both teams, people hate all risky proposals though.

I could post popular ones like rights to Evander Kane for a 28 7th or Stolarz for a 4th (wow great proposal for both teams, great value, not bad for either team), that's kind of boring though.

So it's more interesting if the team with the best prospect pool would get a prime 1D on the best contract in the league for 5 more years, a 4-5D as well in exchange for a great prospect in an area where the team is stacked (wings).

Very fair trade IMO. It would make Chicago a lot better immediately especially with Kantserov and Frondell contributing in the top 6 (hopefully). If I was KD it would definitely be something to consider. Nice proposal Nvious.

Thank you kind sir.

Holy f***. Canucks are not retaining 50% on Hronek for 6 years. Wtf is this garbage???

No half gate for a game per year for Aqua man, not sure how he'll cope only getting 87 Bugattis and not 88 per year