Proposal: CHI - OTT: Reichel for Boucher

[BoardsofCanada]

Boucher has speed and physicality but zero offense. If he can avoid injuries, he may carve out a checking role in the NHL but it will most likely be a cup of coffee. I don't know much about Reichel but I'm guessing he has more potential for offense.

 

[ottawah]

Boucher has speed and physicality but zero offense. If he can avoid injuries, he may carve out a checking role in the NHL but it will most likely be a cup of coffee.

A big part of the problem is that style can look good in lower leagues, but at the NHL everyone is so much bigger and faster. The guy is roughly average NHL size, its not like he is a hulking monster out there. And if that size is not able to absorb hits to keep him from injury at the lower leagues, the NHL is just that more punishing.

The moral of the story (and many before him) is never over evaluate a players secondary attributes that make a good 3rd and 4th liner. Wilson, Lucic, Torres, clutterbuck, these were all scoring machines in lower leagues and adapted their game. to find their NHL role. Drafting role players at junior leagues (i.e. Griffin Rienhart, Sam Morin) just does not work very often at all.

 

[jbeck5]

A big part of the problem is that style can look good in lower leagues, but at the NHL everyone is so much bigger and faster. The guy is roughly average NHL size, its not like he is a hulking monster out there. And if that size is not able to absorb hits to keep him from injury at the lower leagues, the NHL is just that more punishing.

The moral of the story (and many before him) is never over evaluate a players secondary attributes that make a good 3rd and 4th liner. Wilson, Lucic, Torres, clutterbuck, these were all scoring machines in lower leagues and adapted their game. to find their NHL role. Drafting role players at junior leagues (i.e. Griffin Rienhart, Sam Morin) just does not work very often at all.

To be fair, the guys you name were actually 1st and 2nd line players in their prime. Lucic has a 30 goal season and 5-20 goal + seasons. Wilson has 3-20 goal + seasons. Torres had a 27 goal season and another 20 goal season.

No one is asking or expecting or even hoping he's anywhere near those guys. Those guys played up in your lineup.

Clutterbuck is probably your closest comparable, but then he wasn't really dominating junior either. A bit over ppg his last year and goal scoring was at the same clip as Boucher. But even clutterbuck had a 19 goal season which is above what anyone would hope for from Boucher.

Your point about him not being able to handle lesser leagues physicality is troubling indeed. However, I've seen plenty of players struggle with injuries at a young age and manage to take training more seriously over the years to reduce the amount of injuries. Like a Fisher or Alfredsson or Hossa... So let's cross our fingers lol.

Anyways, I think his value is so low that we might as well see if he can stay healthy and be a solid 4th liner in a couple years rather than trade him for a career ahler or a 6th or something.

If someone offers something of value, then you do it right away.

I have no expectations but also wouldn't be surprised if he was on the 4th line as a 5-10 goal crash and bang 4th liner in a couple years.

 

[ottawah]

Clutterbuck is probably your closest comparable, but then he wasn't really dominating junior either. A bit over ppg his last year and goal scoring was at the same clip as Boucher. But even clutterbuck had a 19 goal season which is above what anyone would hope for from Boucher.

Clutterbuck is my favorite "comparable". Although 2 inches shorter, 10 pounds heavier, allowing him to play that style a bit better.

But D+1 year Clutterbuck was 1.03 PPG, Boucher .58 PPG. D+2 Clutterbuck was 1.37, Boucher was .81.

But I'll agree, if he could turn into a 4th line player even at ~15 points a year its something. Its just at his size, his pedigree (one of the top 20 US players at his age group, draft position aside) and his offensive numbers, it will take some work.

 

[zenator]

Would either player be claimed if on waivers?

Probably yes because they are young. Philly might take a flyer on Boucher due to the family connection and playing style. San Jose or Chicago might try Reichel, as a bottom feeder could be patient to see if he can still develop.

What are they worth in trades? 4th rounder? 5th rounder?

Both players might benefit from a fresh start elsewhere.

 

[jbeck5]

Clutterbuck is my favorite "comparable". Although 2 inches shorter, 10 pounds heavier, allowing him to play that style a bit better.

But D+1 year Clutterbuck was 1.03 PPG, Boucher .58 PPG. D+2 Clutterbuck was 1.37, Boucher was .81.

But I'll agree, if he could turn into a 4th line player even at ~15 points a year its something. Its just at his size, his pedigree (one of the top 20 US players at his age group, draft position aside) and his offensive numbers, it will take some work.

I think he could thicken up though. Being 6'1 205 at 20 isn't small.

Probably heavier than Fisher and about what Neil was at that age.

I'm obviously hoping here haha. Realistically he never makes the show.

But wishful thinking, he could be a 6'1,210 or 215 guy if he could put on muscle without losing much of a step...maybe try to get that weight in his thighs and ass type of thing.

 

[ottawah]

I think he could thicken up though. Being 6'1 205 at 20 isn't small.

Probably heavier than Fisher and about what Neil was at that age.

I'm obviously hoping here haha. Realistically he never makes the show.

But wishful thinking, he could be a 6'1,210 or 215 guy if he could put on muscle without losing much of a step...maybe try to get that weight in his thighs and ass type of thing.

Maybe. Boucher was known as a gym rat before and isn't nearly as far behind physically as many players his age are coming out of junior. Just not sure there is much more he can put on seeing as he already supposedly went thru that phase. I tend to go by elite prospects as they keep their data up to date, if so he really has not added much in weight if any the last 3 years. But thats trusting an outside source, so unsure.

All in all I'd think he was likely near done in the organization when his contract is up next year, he's not a Staois draft pick, but I hear a lot of good things about him as a teammate, he may turn into a mostly AHL player, but if he's a great guy and his work ethic pays off with younger players, at least thats a positive on the organization. He is just the type of player people want to succeed, hopefully he does.

 

[jbeck5]

Maybe. Boucher was known as a gym rat before and isn't nearly as far behind physically as many players his age are coming out of junior. Just not sure there is much more he can put on seeing as he already supposedly went thru that phase. I tend to go by elite prospects as they keep their data up to date, if so he really has not added much in weight if any the last 3 years. But thats trusting an outside source, so unsure.

All in all I'd think he was likely near done in the organization when his contract is up next year, he's not a Staois draft pick, but I hear a lot of good things about him as a teammate, he may turn into a mostly AHL player, but if he's a great guy and his work ethic pays off with younger players, at least thats a positive on the organization. He is just the type of player people want to succeed, hopefully he does.

You are probably right in the first paragraph. Would be interested in seeing if the senators posted camp weigh ins the last 3 years

I agree with everything of it not being a staios pick and stuff...if he has a year like the past and gets injured, he's gone. If he can stay healthy and be physical, I don't see why they wouldn't qualify him and bring him back on a 2 way.

 

[McJedi]

Reichel is at a point where his likely remaining value is only as a reclamation project for another team that believes he's a better fit in their system/development group.

I think we are looking at a soonish trade of struggling prospect for struggling prospect.

Ottawa would you guys be interested? He has good connection with Stutzle obviously, can be a body in the NHL right now if we stretch it.

How is Boucher doing? I get he was way over drafted, but what's the opinion on his future now? Sorry haven't followed him closely so I might be off base value wise but I would like him in the Hawks prospect pool.

Can the Avs get in on this with Oakar Olausson? 3 way trade?

 

[ottawah]

I agree with everything of it not being a staios pick and stuff...if he has a year like the past and gets injured, he's gone. If he can stay healthy and be physical, I don't see why they wouldn't qualify him and bring him back on a 2 way.

Nothing wrong at all with the Nick Paul treatment. Spending part of 6 years in the AHL but it did work out. Who knows.

 

[bert]

Somehow the Hawks badly lose that trade. Boucher is barely an AHL player

He's barely played how do you know that? Other than he plays for the sens and you hate them.

 

[bert]

If that's his mentality, he's not going to impress anyone. He doesn't have the skillset to be useful unless he's playing on the edge.

This really is the issue. You can see the package and what type of player/role he could have with more development but its demanding on the body and he's made of glass.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Need to see what Boucher is like if he can stay healthy, if that’s possible.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Why the Reichel hate? He’s shown to be pretty skilled. He looks like the hawks brought him up too early but I can’t imagine how he doesn’t at least develop into a decent middle six scoring forward.

Reichel is ass.

If you have a positive outlook on him, you probably haven't watched him since his draft year.

He'll hit waivers shortly.

 

[PlayersLtd]

A big part of the problem is that style can look good in lower leagues, but at the NHL everyone is so much bigger and faster. The guy is roughly average NHL size, its not like he is a hulking monster out there. And if that size is not able to absorb hits to keep him from injury at the lower leagues, the NHL is just that more punishing.

The moral of the story (and many before him) is never over evaluate a players secondary attributes that make a good 3rd and 4th liner. Wilson, Lucic, Torres, clutterbuck, these were all scoring machines in lower leagues and adapted their game. to find their NHL role. Drafting role players at junior leagues (i.e. Griffin Rienhart, Sam Morin) just does not work very often at all.

Doesn't take too much away from your point but Boucher outpaced Lucic in their respective CHL careers and that's with zero momentum due to injuries and COVID isolations.

Lucic could barely skate in his first year of jr.

 

[Sanderson]

The moral of the story (and many before him) is never over evaluate a players secondary attributes that make a good 3rd and 4th liner. Wilson, Lucic, Torres, clutterbuck, these were all scoring machines in lower leagues and adapted their game. to find their NHL role. Drafting role players at junior leagues (i.e. Griffin Rienhart, Sam Morin) just does not work very often at all.

I wouldn't consider any of these guys to have been scoring machines at lower levels outside of perhaps Torres.
Wilson had half a point per game when drafted, plus a nice playoff-run, hardly special. Milan Lucic's draft-year wasn't good at all. Clutterbuck had a pretty good draft-year, but he was a late birth, and rode shotgun to Tavares, his year in the AHL was hardly showing much scoring instinct. Torres was the one with the most impressive junior career, but he never managed to be a force in the AHL.
Outside of Torres, none of these were really big-time scorers who had to adapt their game. They were wingers who were able to translate their physicality into some post-draft junior success, not really players with high-end skill that adapted their game.

Griffin Reinhart was hardly a role player prior to his draft either. He had a rather impressive season as a 16 year old, and still did well in his draft year. It's just that he never developed much beyond that, and lacked the mobility to make it in the NHL.
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to present all those wingers as "scoring machines" yet Reinhart as "role player" when Reinhart - as a defenseman - showed more offense in his draft year than Lucic and Wilson did as forwards. And you can pretty much add Clutterbuck to that list as well, seeing how his late birth pushed his draft a year later. He did get outscored by Reinhart as a 16/17 year old.

 

[ottawah]

I wouldn't consider any of these guys to have been scoring machines at lower levels outside of perhaps Torres.
Wilson had half a point per game when drafted, plus a nice playoff-run, hardly special. Milan Lucic's draft-year wasn't good at all. Clutterbuck had a pretty good draft-year, but he was a late birth, and rode shotgun to Tavares, his year in the AHL was hardly showing much scoring instinct. Torres was the one with the most impressive junior career, but he never managed to be a force in the AHL.
Outside of Torres, none of these were really big-time scorers who had to adapt their game. They were wingers who were able to translate their physicality into some post-draft junior success, not really players with high-end skill that adapted their game.

Griffin Reinhart was hardly a role player prior to his draft either. He had a rather impressive season as a 16 year old, and still did well in his draft year. It's just that he never developed much beyond that, and lacked the mobility to make it in the NHL.
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to present all those wingers as "scoring machines" yet Reinhart as "role player" when Reinhart - as a defenseman - showed more offense in his draft year than Lucic and Wilson did as forwards. And you can pretty much add Clutterbuck to that list as well, seeing how his late birth pushed his draft a year later. He did get outscored by Reinhart as a 16/17 year old.

I'd argue otherwise. Granted Lucic was not great his draft year but that cannot be compared t a player like Boucher. D+1 Lucic was the top scorer on a Memorial cup winning team. And Clutterbuck may have been a late Bday, but Bouchers is extremely early, meaning they were largely the same age that year, seperated by less than 2 months. And Taveras was a 14 year old, definitely a good player but not even tops on his team.

The point is these players were scoring at very high rates D+1, Boucher was simply very far below that standard.

Doesn't take too much away from your point but Boucher outpaced Lucic in their respective CHL careers and that's with zero momentum due to injuries and COVID isolations.

Lucic could barely skate in his first year of jr.

Easy to say because Lucic was playing at ages 16-18 while Boucher was playing 19-20. Of course Boucher would get better numbers. By the age Boucher was starting CHL, Lucic was already an NHL regular.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Same nationality guarantees good connection? Reichel is trash, doesn't hold any value, probably back to Eisbaren Berlin real soon or Swizz league if he's being adventurous. Soft as a butter.

Boucher is a bad AHL player.

 

[PlayersLtd]

I'd argue otherwise. Granted Lucic was not great his draft year but that cannot be compared t a player like Boucher. D+1 Lucic was the top scorer on a Memorial cup winning team. And Clutterbuck may have been a late Bday, but Bouchers is extremely early, meaning they were largely the same age that year, seperated by less than 2 months. And Taveras was a 14 year old, definitely a good player but not even tops on his team.

The point is these players were scoring at very high rates D+1, Boucher was simply very far below that standard.


Easy to say because Lucic was playing at ages 16-18 while Boucher was playing 19-20. Of course Boucher would get better numbers. By the age Boucher was starting CHL, Lucic was already an NHL regular.

So by your logic Boucher was a 'scoring machine' in jr as well since you acknowledge he got better numbers than the 'scoring machine' Lucic. Surprised you doubled down on that one.