Player Discussion Charles Hudon Part III

[Sorinth]

But Lehkonen can skate and defend...

Don't get me wrong I like Lehkonen more due to his speed, but Hudon isn't bad defensively by any stretch, and has just as high ceiling offensively.

It makes no sense to sacrifice the development of a potential middle six forward so that Agostino or Chaput can provide a marginally better 4th line.

 

[Hostile Offer]

I think a Leivo type deal could make sense for Hudon. His value is close to nothing and we would surely lose him on waivers if he ended up there, why not trade him for some help in Laval?

 

[Walrus26]

Don't get me wrong I like Lehkonen more due to his speed, but Hudon isn't bad defensively by any stretch, and has just as high ceiling offensively.

It makes no sense to sacrifice the development of a potential middle six forward so that Agostino or Chaput can provide a marginally better 4th line.

Devil's Advocate Mode.....that "marginally better" 4th line was key to keeping us in the game yesterday and has been a positive factor since CJ settled on Agostino - Chaput - DLo.

Whilst I don't think that Hudon and Peca are good enough to hold down a spot on this team, I'd prefer to let Peca go first.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Devil's Advocate Mode.....that "marginally better" 4th line was key to keeping us in the game yesterday and has been a positive factor since CJ settled on Agostino - Chaput - DLo.

Whilst I don't think that Hudon and Peca are good enough to hold down a spot on this team, I'd prefer to let Peca go first.

Getting some deja vu vibes from last year when Carr, Froese and Dlo were playing over their heads for a stretch and people started already penciling them to our core for next year. Then they cooled down and little is heard about Carr and Froese today. I'm glad our 4th line is making things happen but eventually we will end up tweaking it.

 

[Big Lurk]

No one ever said this about Froese. Ive never seen a player so boring.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Thinking Hudon is the next one to get waived. He can't/won't make our team.

I hope he clears. Laval can use his offensive game again.

But, I doubt it. LAK no longer have room after all their waiver claims, but I can see Vancouver, New Jersey, Carolina, Chicago at least having interest.

Like DLR & Scherbak, he probably has no value & we wouldn't be able to trade him.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Not an NHLer. Maybe the Daniel Carr fans and the Hudon fans can get together and argue who deserves to be in the nhl more.

 

[MD thaivuN]

sad we can't get any trade value from someone who put up 30 pts last year.

 

[beowulf]

It's criminal that the likes of Deslaurier has more games played this season than Hudon. Hudon has never receive much respect by this organization.

 

[Sorinth]

Devil's Advocate Mode.....that "marginally better" 4th line was key to keeping us in the game yesterday and has been a positive factor since CJ settled on Agostino - Chaput - DLo.

Whilst I don't think that Hudon and Peca are good enough to hold down a spot on this team, I'd prefer to let Peca go first.

Well if we had a worse 4th line, Julien would play them less, which means more time for Domi or Gallaghers line. So how confidant can you be that we wouldn't have been even better by playing the top lines a little more?

There will also be times that the 4th line misses important chances that Hudon would've scored on. Over the course of the season how many points difference does the team finish if Hudon replaces Agostino? My guess is at best 1 or 2 points.

 

[lamp9post]

My question is who cares?

Even if they are a better fit on the 4th line, their overall impact on how we do this year and in the coming years is virtually nothing. Whereas a guy like Hudon at least has the potential to develop into a relevant player that can help us down the road.

Hudon is already 24. The way players develop these days, you are what you are at that age.

Also, our forwards are relatively young. When healthy, here are the players competing for top-9 spots:

Drouin (23) - Domi - (23) - Shaw (27)
Tatar (28) - Danalt (25) - Gallagher (26)
Byron (29) - Kotka (18) - Lehkonen (23)
Armia (25)

I really don't see anyone on that list who I'd consider old/needed to be traded/about to retire/leave as a UFA. Not sure Hudon is ever going to develop into a player more deserving of a top-9 role than the players we already have.

And I don't see Hudon as a 4th line player.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's criminal that the likes of Deslaurier has more games played this season than Hudon. Hudon has never receive much respect by this organization.

He has to earn his opportunities. Hudon got his shot in the top 9 and some PP time at times this year where Deslairiers has played 4th line all year.

 

[habdynasty]

I think Hudons hockey future is in Europe.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hudon is already 24. The way players develop these days, you are what you are at that age.

Also, our forwards are relatively young. When healthy, here are the players competing for top-9 spots:

Drouin (23) - Domi - (23) - Shaw (27)
Tatar (28) - Danalt (25) - Gallagher (26)
Byron (29) - Kotka (18) - Lehkonen (23)
Armia (25)

I really don't see anyone on that list who I'd consider old/needed to be traded/about to retire/leave as a UFA. Not sure Hudon is ever going to develop into a player more deserving of a top-9 role than the players we already have.

And I don't see Hudon as a 4th line player.

Very good point and I agree. Hudon needs to show us he can produce in the top 9 and we have given him a shot in that role from time to time. He simply has not produced and when you combine that he is a smaller type player who don't win much puck battles, he is nothing special at this stage.

At this point, I value Agostino and Chaput more than Hudon. They have done more with the same opportunity or less.

Prove us wrong Hudon... Come on do it! haha

 

[Walrus26]

Well if we had a worse 4th line, Julien would play them less, which means more time for Domi or Gallaghers line. So how confidant can you be that we wouldn't have been even better by playing the top lines a little more?

There will also be times that the 4th line misses important chances that Hudon would've scored on. Over the course of the season how many points difference does the team finish if Hudon replaces Agostino? My guess is at best 1 or 2 points.

Fair enough. The counter being "how many points worse off would the team be over the year without that extra reliability on the 4th line?" Our previous versions of a 4th line this year have been lit up.

 

[Sorinth]

Hudon is already 24. The way players develop these days, you are what you are at that age.

Also, our forwards are relatively young. When healthy, here are the players competing for top-9 spots:

Drouin (23) - Domi - (23) - Shaw (27)
Tatar (28) - Danalt (25) - Gallagher (26)
Byron (29) - Kotka (18) - Lehkonen (23)
Armia (25)

I really don't see anyone on that list who I'd consider old/needed to be traded/about to retire/leave as a UFA. Not sure Hudon is ever going to develop into a player more deserving of a top-9 role than the players we already have.

And I don't see Hudon as a 4th line player.

It's irrelevant whether we have 10 players who are maybe better top-9 players, because by having Hudon prove he's a capable top-9 player we would have 11. And 11 is better then 10 even if it leads to one of them being traded.

Not too mention it's very strange to claim a player is who they are at 24 and then list Paul Byron who at that age was splitting his time between the AHL/NHL, was put on waivers at 26 before putting everything together with us and putting up his first 20 goal/40 point season at 27.

And don't you find it the least bit ironic that four of the players you listed were in fact outproduce by Hudon last year. So it's very debateable that those guys listed are in fact better players, and furthermore it goes to show how dumb it would be to essentially give up on a player because of a down half-year.

 

[Sorinth]

Fair enough. The counter being "how many points worse off would the team be over the year without that extra reliability on the 4th line?" Our previous versions of a 4th line this year have been lit up.

4th lines get lit up all the time, and it's going to happen to this current configuration at some point as well. So give me a number, how many points/wins does this 4th line get us over an 82 game season?

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's irrelevant whether we have 10 players who are maybe better top-9 players, because by having Hudon prove he's a capable top-9 player we would have 11. And 11 is better then 10 even if it leads to one of them being traded.

Not too mention it's very strange to claim a player is who they are at 24 and then list Paul Byron who at that age was splitting his time between the AHL/NHL, was put on waivers at 26 before putting everything together with us and putting up his first 20 goal/40 point season at 27.

And don't you find it the least bit ironic that four of the players you listed were in fact outproduce by Hudon last year. So it's very debateable that those guys listed are in fact better players, and furthermore it goes to show how dumb it would be to essentially give up on a player because of a down half-year.

At least Byron generated scoring chances and was a great skater when he was placed on waivers. What the hell has Hudon done? Hudon got his shot and he's nothing special. Similar to Ghetto

 

[Sorinth]

Very good point and I agree. Hudon needs to show us he can produce in the top 9 and we have given him a shot in that role from time to time. He simply has not produced and when you combine that he is a smaller type player who don't win much puck battles, he is nothing special at this stage.

At this point, I value Agostino and Chaput more than Hudon. They have done more with the same opportunity or less.

Prove us wrong Hudon... Come on do it! haha

Last year he outproduced 4 of the players listed. So how exactly can you claim he was given a shot and failed to produce?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Last year he outproduced 4 of the players listed. So how exactly can you claim he was given a shot and failed to produce?

My own eye test evaluation and this season is also factored in. Hudon has not done much and when you add he is a smaller player with average skating, he's meh at this stage. Just like Ghetto was. If these types of players are not producing or showing flashes of potential, they don't have much value.

I did have hopes for him 12 months ago though. But time to move one. I would of moved on from Hudon before DLR and Scherbak. Heck, I bet you Hudon doesn't get picked up on waivers.

-8 on the team in 21 games (Worse on the Habs). -12 last year (6th worse on the Habs). 30 pts with 10 goals in 72 games was a decent 1st year. But what does he do to follow this up? He struggles to produce when we give him opportunity. If he can't crack the top 9, he doesn't belong on the 4th line

 

[tazsub3]

he got a lot of chances this year,with top players. He did not take it. Simple as that. Scherbak was not given a chance, not hudon!

 

[Sorinth]

At least Byron generated scoring chances and was a great skater when he was placed on waivers. What the hell has Hudon done? Hudon got his shot and he's nothing special. Similar to Ghetto

All of this is irrelevant to the discussion of whether a player is finished developing at 24 years old.

 

[JoelWarlord]

And I don't see Hudon as a 4th line player.

Why not? I know there's a certain type of player that's a classical "4th liner" with grit like Deslauriers but the NHL is moving away from that model and give me a Charles Hudon on the 4th line over a coke machine any day of the week.

It's not like we have some glut of really good defensive forwards on the 4th line that would let you use it as a matchup line. Deslauriers isn't a good defensive forward, Chaput and Agostino are dime a dozen players with limited upside on either side of the puck, and Peca seems to be stuck in the press box. I just have a hard time believing the Habs are better off rolling three less talented players on their 4th line instead of Hudon because of an idea of what a 4th liner is stylistically.

 

[Habs Halifax]

All of this is irrelevant to the discussion of whether a player is finished developing at 24 years old.

It's not irrelevant. You don't ignore the path they took to get where they are and who they are today. What has Hudon shown us in his NHL sample size at the age of 23/24? Not much and he's on the Ghetto path. What does he do aside from production on the ice? He hits a lot. Best compliments I can come up with.

Could he become a solid top 9 player? I doubt it. Lack of skating and size is going to hold him back IMO. I do value his shot and vision as an offensive player but he has not shown enough of this potential in his NHL sample size for me to keep hoping he gets to that point

I have more faith in Agostino or Chaput at this point. At least they can win a battle along the boards when they struggle to provide offense.

 

[Sorinth]

My own eye test evaluation and this season is also factored in. Hudon has not done much and when you add he is a smaller player with average skating, he's meh at this stage. Just like Ghetto was. If these types of players are not producing or showing flashes of potential, they don't have much value.

I did have hopes for him 12 months ago though. But time to move one. I would of moved on from Hudon before DLR and Scherbak. Heck, I bet you Hudon doesn't get picked up on waivers.

-8 on the team in 21 games (Worse on the Habs). -12 last year (6th worse on the Habs). 30 pts with 10 goals in 72 games was a decent 1st year. But what does he do to follow this up? He struggles to produce when we give him opportunity. If he can't crack the top 9, he doesn't belong on the 4th line

What did Lehkonen do to follow up his "decent" first year of 28 points with -1? He put up 21 points and was -11. But aren't you glad we didn't give up on him last year when he looked meh at best.