Flowah
Registered User
- Nov 30, 2009
- 10,249
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Hockey Sense > Skill > Speed > SizeDraft high skill, high reward type players instead of safe picks. Go for Kucherov's and Palat's instead of Sheahan's.
Should prioritize in that order.
Hockey Sense > Skill > Speed > SizeDraft high skill, high reward type players instead of safe picks. Go for Kucherov's and Palat's instead of Sheahan's.
I think what you're saying is "draft well".Draft high skill, high reward type players instead of safe picks. Go for Kucherov's and Palat's instead of Sheahan's.
Hockey Sense > Skill > Speed > Size
Should prioritize in that order.
I would replace size with leadership and hard work and it should be in any orderHockey Sense > Skill > Speed > Size
Should prioritize in that order.
Skill>speed>skill>hockey sense >intangiblesHockey Sense > Skill > Speed > Size
Should prioritize in that order.
I would have them start winning, and then continue winning in the future.I’m just curious on what you guys would change and how you would plan the future of the team.
Skill>speed>skill>hockey sense >intangibles
Where do I start.
1) Fire Blashill and name Bylsma interim for the rest of the season. Blashill is ruining Mantha and AA.
2) PLAY THE KIDS.
3) Send Rasmussen back to Junior. I realize that he doesn't have much to prove at this level, however it will help get his mojo back and it almost certainly guarantees that he would be named to Team Canada for the World Juniors in Dec./Jan.. Playing with and against the Worlds best can only be a positive step in his development. There is no shame that at the age of 19, he is not quite ready for the mans game in the NHL.
At the Trade deadline
4) Move Nyquist to a legitimate Cup contender so he waives his NTC. He's off to a nice start(7 pts. in 8 games) and he is playing for a new contract, so he is motivated. Should return a late 1st.
5) Move Daley to one of the 15 teams not on his no trade list who would be looking for insurance on the blueline for a playoff run. Return would be a 2nd and/or B+ prospect.
6) Move Ericsson(with $1.250 mil. retention) to some playoff team looking for depth.
7) Trade Howard
8) Convince Vanek to accept a move to playoff team.
Post season
9) Hire Yzerman to serve as immediate GM or as a consultant to Holland if he insists on serving the last yr. of his present deal.
10 ) If Ericsson is not moved at the TDL, buyout the last yr. of his deal.
11) Nielsen has a 10 team no trade list. Hopefully one of the 20 teams might be looking for depth down the middle(willing to retain $1.250 million)
12) Finishing last is no guarantee of getting first overall pick(only 20%). I'll be happy wit a top 3 pick.
I have been a Wings fan for 60 yrs. I suffered through the Dead Thing era of the late 60s to the early 80s. It is understandable that the Wings' depth is a little thin, when you consider that they traded 10 or 11 1st. round picks during our 25 yr. playoff run to help bolster our playoff runs. Also remember that both Chicago and Pittsburgh had long playoff droughts earning them high draft picks that allowed them to draft players like Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Toews and Kane. It will still take a couple of more yrs., but this too shall pass.
PLAY THE KIDS
I think it's more Yakupov vs Sheahan.No. I'd rather have a Henrik Zetterberg than an Alexei Kovalev.
I think it's more Yakupov vs Sheahan.
One's in the KHL, the other is still an NHL player.
If you have all the skill in the world but no hockey sense you are useless in the NHL. If you have hockey sense, you may not be able to dispy doodle around the entire other team, but you can position yourself well and be in the right place at the right time offensively and defensively. No highlight reel plays, but consistent and useful.
Yeah, I get that. I just wanted to use kinda extreme examples to show that even if the skill guy catches on, I'd still rather have the guy with high hockey IQ who isn't as fast.
How about another one. Pavel Brendl. Massively talented. Also a massive bust. Alexandre Daigle. Massive talent, Massive bust.
The thing is, most skilled players do have great hockey IQ and vice-versa. So, up high in the draft, give me the guy with the head for the game who is a sliver slower or less skilled. Give me, essentially, Peyton Manning over Ryan Leaf.
It’s so hard to weigh them. “Skill” and “hockey sense” are purely subjective for whoever is watching. I remember people raving on and on about Sam Reinhart’s Hockey IQ, and it hasn’t materialized into much for a top 2 pick. (Baffles me a little, TBH)
I used to be a sucker for guys like Merkley who have all the skill in the world but you have to “fix”. Never used to want to hear about intangibles, but watching guys like Larkin have the drive to fix any hole in his game made me see that there is some value to that, even if I don’t value it as highly as the Wings do.
So many variables are at play, it’s a very hard thing to get right.
No. I'd rather have a Henrik Zetterberg than an Alexei Kovalev.
Hockey sense is WAY more important than you're giving it credit for. Hank and Dats were so good because they both knew where to be on the ice at all times. They knew where the other was going to be. Dats was better because he had more skill, but hell, Zetterberg basically made his living from like age 32 on by using his brain. Igor Larionov played the entire second half of his career where he was slower and weaker as a stud C because he was able to basically be the conductor for the symphony of the Russian Five.
Give me a guy with a high hockey IQ and okay skill over a guy with crazy skill but no hockey IQ anyday. Give me Igor Larionov over Maxim Afinegenov. Give me Henrik Zetterberg over Alexei Kovalev. Give me
1. If AA and Mantha are being ruined it is because AA and Mantha are ruining themselves. I have no problems with how Blashill is deploying them. They want to play tough and engaged hockey, they get big minutes. They want to ease off, they play less. It's pretty simple.
2) You remember Boston and Montreal right? That's essentially what "PLAY ALL THE KIDS" gives you. Play kids in appropriate situations in appropriate roles. Don't play someone just because they're 24 or under.
3) Rasmussen should stick with the Wings if he can show that he's in the flow of the game the next three nights. Play slow and be behind the play? He should go back to junior. Him making or not making the World Junior team means nothing to me.
4) Fine.
5) Nope. I want Daley on this roster so Cholo can have a D partner he can lean on to do the defense stuff while he's developing.
6) I'm glad we can just unilaterally decide to move our players we hate.
7) Fine.
8) Why, so we can get a stick of gum? Vanek has literally no trade value at this point.
9) Ok.
10) NO NO NO NO. Ericsson isn't the dead weight you make him out to be. What the **** do you gain by buying him out?
11) No, unless you get an actual value piece for him. You again, gain little by just moving him out for the sake of moving him out.
12) Fine.
I can understand a little bit of wanting to clear the boards, but we are clearing up so much cap by just ending this year and next. You don't have to do any of these trades just to do them or retain to do them.
1) We will just have to agree to disagree about Blashill in regards to Mantha and AA.
3) Why would anyone think that that Ras is going to show a marked improvement in his next three games over his first 7. Back to Junior(and yes on Team Canada). It would not surprise me at all that Ras spends a year in G.R. and hits the NHL full time at the grand old age of 21.
5) Again, agree to disagree.
6/10) I don't hate Ericsson.
8) Doesn't mean he won't have value at the TDL.
11) Didn't specify what the could/would/should return be for Nielsen.
This team will not be playoff contenders until the 20/21 season at the earliest, more likely 21/22.
Move guys like Nielsen, Ericsson, Daley, Vanek(not to mention Witkowski, Jensen and
Glendening) for future assets, however limited they might be.
It is not hard to imagine that by 21/22, our top 9 forwards will consist of Larkin, Mantha, AA, Zadina. Veleno, Rasmussen, Bertuzzi, Berggreen and Smith. D would be anchored by Cholo, Hronek, and McIssac. To be truthful, have no idea how our goaltending future looks. Can only hope that one, if not two, of Petrazzelli, Larsson, Fulcher, Rybar and Van Pottleberghe work out.
Fair enough.“Skill” and “hockey sense” are purely subjective for whoever is watching.
I guess more what I'm getting at is that trading guys out just to be free of their money is a bad move at this juncture. Basically, I don't see the point in trading guys like Nielsen, Ericsson, Daley, and Vanek for future assets if all it will amount to is like a third and two 6ths or something like that. The first two weeks of the year shows how bad a team that you trade away any current asset on D that won't be here later will look. There is literally no reason to force Hronek, Cholowski, Sulak, etc. to sink or swim. You don't gain much flexibility if any by dealing their current D partners and as evidenced by how the team looked without Daley, Kronwall, DDK, and Ericsson, the kids aren't ready yet to carry the load.
Basically, the Wings have a boatload of guys who cap out as complimentary players. I have literally zero interest in trading current assets to get future assets that will be more of the same. You're not getting a material asset for any of the guys you are clamoring to move. Maybe you can squeeze a 2nd out of Glendening from Toronto. But most other guys will be a third or less and that's if you retain money on them. I have no interest in going out of my way to "get something for them" on middling guys. If the return is very late round picks? I'd rather that they just walk and give me the contract space.
The whole reason you'd move Nielsen or Ericsson or Daley is if you had a crushing need for cap space to make a huge move. Since you are aiming for 21-22 to be that time... Daley and Ericsson are gone or on greatly reduced contracts. Nielsen has like a year left.
And on Thomas Vanek... he's been dealt the last two TDLs and did virtually nothing in Florida and while he was better in Columbus, it was still underwhelming. He got dealt for a 3rd and McIlrath to Florida and the corpses of Tyler Motte and Jussi Jokinen. The same Jussi Jokinen who was in camp with Detroit this year on a PTO and was completely worthless. Nobody is giving you a damn thing for Thomas Vanek unless literally every other forward potentially on the market all got swine flu at the same time on TDL morning and he was quite literally the only asset out there to pick up. Vanek is what he is at this point. He's no longer a "free TDL asset". He's a Wing for this whole season.
Fair enough.
I define skill as being able to make the puck do what you want, with regards to passing, stickhandling, shooting. Hockey sense is knowing how plays are going to develop so you know where to be and what do you. Right place right time to intercept passes from the other team, or to give your own team somewhere to pass to, being able to retrieve rebounds because you know where it's going. That kinda stuff.
I disagree, you can easily get a 3rd or 4th for Vanek. Benning is a bad GM, so of course all he got was bad stuff back, Holland is actually pretty good at trading for picks, and Vanek actually played quite well in his short run in CBJ last year.
As far as improving, I don't think it has to take as long as everyone thinks. The reason I say this, is after this season, Kronwall either retires or isn't back next season. So lets say you get even an ok younger and faster UFA D to replace him, that right there can already improve our team, with just one move. You move an AA out for either a more committed forward or comparable D, and you can improve as well. Not every move and trade we make has to be only looking at the future. We can slowly move a piece or two out, and improve bit by bit. It doesn't have to be a move 15 guys at once and start all over.
Considering last time he only brought in a conditional 3rd (and that's with salary retention by the Wings) that time may have already come. Especially given his full NTC.I wasn't saying that you have to do everything at once. I was actually arguing that you don't. That trading away Nielsen and Ericsson and the like NOW is counterproductive to getting better sooner.
Eventually, people will stop trading for Vanek. I think everyone around the league knows what he is at this point. He's not valuable backup scoring for a playoff team. He's not a fantastic mentor for young players. He's an all-offense wing that you have to shelter who isn't fast.
I wasn't saying that you have to do everything at once. I was actually arguing that you don't. That trading away Nielsen and Ericsson and the like NOW is counterproductive to getting better sooner.
Eventually, people will stop trading for Vanek. I think everyone around the league knows what he is at this point. He's not valuable backup scoring for a playoff team. He's not a fantastic mentor for young players. He's an all-offense wing that you have to shelter who isn't fast.