GWT: Champions League Round of 16

[Deficient Mode]

I think that all of Atletico, PSG, Barcelona and Real Madrid have a good shot at beating Bayern this year if they play anything like they did against Juve.

They won't though. Except for Barca, those teams all have bigger problems than Bayern. The current timeline for Boateng's recovery has him coming back just before the semifinals. If Bayern have a little luck in their draw, they should be ok.

 

[Jeffrey]

I would like to see:
Real Madrid Vs PSG
Bayern Vs Man City
Atletico Vs Benfica
Barca Vs Wolfsburg

 

[Halladay]

Xabi should not be playing anymore.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I would like to see:
Real Madrid Vs PSG
Bayern Vs Man City
Atletico Vs Benfica
Barca Vs Wolfsburg

That would be one of the worst draws imo. Two matchups that we already saw twice in the group stage and a third that we had last year. Wolfsburg vs. Barca wouldn't appeal to me too much either.

 

[Live in the Now]

PSG/Man City
Wolfsburg/Atletico
Real Madrid/Bayern
Barca/Benfica

I know I gave Barca an easy draw there but I have interest in the other three ties. Benfica throws a wrench into the whole thing because I don't really want to see them face Wolfsburg and I can't see them being too tough a matchup for another team.

 

[cgf]

If I got to pick the draw from here on out, I'd go with:

SF 1:
Real - Citeh
PSG - Atletico

The symbol of Old Money in football vs the most maligned of the Nouveau Riche oil-clubs in the first tie. Two of the rising powers in european football, that we haven't yet seen face-off in the knockouts, for the second. With the best of the non-FCBs on this side, there's also the best chance of an upset in the final since none these sides will have to deal with two-legs against Bayern or Barca.

SF 1:
Bayern - Benfica
Barca - Wolfsburg

I gave Bayern n Barca the easier match ups in this round, but put them up against one another in the next one. That way they can heal up for that SF meeting; a tie that could feature 180 minutes of the best football ever played by two teams on the same pitch...if both sides are fit, on form, and play with courage. Since Bayern and VFL play twice a year already, I went with Barca thomping FC VW while Bayern beats on the portuguese side. Although swapping that would make the travel really easy on both giants.

 

[Vipers31]

Pure relief. Would have been tough to go out this early, and Pep not playing Thiago much, much earlier would have been rather impossible to defend.

No point in looking too far ahead, as we'll have to find a different level in form before facing Barca/PSG, especially. The chain of mistakes leading to tonight's 0-2 was embarassing. So relieved we didn't end up blowing the CL campaign just like that.

 

[les Habs]

Did I say I can't stand McManaman? Audio difficulties had me thinking that perhaps someone had the wisdom to actually turn his mic off.

Credit to Arsenal for putting in the effort they did, but the scoreline reflected the tie and the match accurately. I've read some posts about Arsenal's chances in this match, but the majority of them were half chances and even if you take Barça's goals out of it we still had as many and really more chances as Arsenal. Anyway, like I said after (and possibly before) the first match, Arsenal were never going to be pushovers. That said they never looked close to going through much less getting a result.

Some of the Arsenal players just didn't put in the work on the defensive end. On top of that they're a team that's at best a Quarterfinalist and no more. That's not to slight the team or the players, but to simply be realistic. You're never going to go anywhere in Europe and seemingly even domestically in that weak league with such a weak spine to your team. And I said it before but you're not going to win anything when Ozil and Sanchez are your go to guys either. While I appreciate Wenger's take on Barça after this match, he's really failed to address Arsenal's needs for years and it's time for a change. Anyway, I thought Elneny had a good match and that goal was excellent.

Barça never hit top gear in this match for a real sustained period, but we were definitely the better side and it wasn't just down to three goals form Messi, Suarez and Neymar either. The teamwork on both sides of the ball is just incredible.

Neymar Man of the Match for me. I also liked ter Stegen. Love watching the backline get pressured and playing their way out of it with ease every time. Never gets old. Excellent goal by Suarez.

edit: if anyone's bored and wants to watch something during HT ^

Waste of time. A load of *********, specifically his examples, that can be debunked in minutes. Unless of course you want to hear about him returning for next season.

Mathieu is going to give me a heart attack

I don't understand how you can be that bad

I thought both he and Mascherano both had some good and bad plays.

Wow. How the best team in the world gets arguably outplayed thus far over two legs and still advances easily. Messi, Suarez and Neymar put their chances away.

They weren't outplayed that far into this match much less the tie as whole to that point or any point. There's not a single argument to be made for it.

Another jok of a ref in Barca.....it's incredible how much they get favored every games.

Arsenal deserved to lose anyway...but the ref...Absolute FARCE

Is that 4 out of 5 stars?

Congratulations to Barcelona, see you next year

Competition is far from over. Bayern, PSG and Madrid are all tops sides who still worry me to some extent. While I like our chances, there's still a lot to be played and it's foolish to just think Barça are going to coast.

 

[les Habs]

Funny seeing all the daggers out for Guardiola when it's 0-2 and then Bayern score four, two coming from his substitutes, and everyone disappears.

Not surprised Bayern came back despite not having seen the match. The quality is there but so is the leadership, experience and the management. Still I would have liked to have seen them go out (and I prefer them to Juventus by a country mile) just to be able to avoid them going forward.

Despite the loss a tie that Juventus can be proud of I would think. Going out to Bayern while scoring four on aggregate, two of which were away, is nothing to sneeze at.

Sounds like Morata stepped it up again this season. Amazing he only got so much of a chance at Madrid. I was chatting briefly with a Madridista co-worker he was trying to spook me that we'd been dumped out and I told him Morata didn't get much of a chance. Not sure if he wanted to leave or not, and I suspect not, but this is the exact sort of player you want in your side long term when they're a canterano.

Oh, and anyone who thinks we're going to get Benfica or Wolfsburg is kidding themselves.

 

[Evilo]

Funny seeing all the daggers out for Guardiola when it's 0-2 and then Bayern score four, two coming from his substitutes, and everyone disappears.

Not surprised Bayern came back despite not having seen the match. The quality is there but so is the leadership, experience and the management.

Why should we give credit to Guardiola's subs since he made every possible mistake in the starting lineup? Alonseo over Thiago? Coman on the bench?
The fact it took so much time for Bayern to qualify is ALL on Guardiola (and Neuer and Alaba as well).

I said they had every chance to come back at the half. But that was certainly in SPITE of Guardiola's choices than thanks to him.

 

[les Habs]

Why should we give credit to Guardiola's subs since he made every possible mistake in the starting lineup? Alonseo over Thiago? Coman on the bench?
The fact it took so much time for Bayern to qualify is ALL on Guardiola (and Neuer and Alaba as well).

I said they had every chance to come back at the half. But that was certainly in SPITE of Guardiola's choices than thanks to him.

While he didn't make every possible mistake in the starting lineup, as that's a gross exaggeration, he did make a mistake or two yes. Still he corrected those and his substitutions played a role. Those too were decisions he made and which look to have a made a huge difference in their going through. So you should give him credit for that just as you gave him credit for his mistakes in the starting lineup.

Of course it's thanks to him. Bayern are who Bayern are and Pep plays a huge part in that. The fact that Bayern always had every chance to come back is down to who they are as a team and who they are as a team comes down to any number of factors like tactics and fitness all of which is in large part down to Guardiola's leadership.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Hyperbole aside, usually coaches get praised after their sub makes an immediate impact. Pep making a mistake in today's game isn't a big deal, and not a blemish on his coaching record. If one wants to argue how bad he is a coach citing this game,it would be ludicrous. For a number of reasons.

I didn't always agree with Pep's decisions, hate some of his buys and the way he used subs but after all these are people. Not everything they touch turns to gold.

 

[Evilo]

Who said he was a bad coach?

But waiting 80 minutes to correct his (obvious) mistakes surely isn't a plus in my mind.

Frankly he is to blame (with Alaba and Neuer) for Bayern struggling to get past Juventus.

But apparently he's immune to blame, making major mistakes in his lineup and correcting after 80 ****ing minutes is an example of good coaching.

Riiiiiiight.

 

[Peen]

don't think the scoreline reflected the tie, but it moreso reflected the quality differential b/w the two teams.

like barcelona's mid and defense were disconnected the whole game.

their chances were better than half chances. it was a quality issue, i don't think 5-1 is even close to what's reflective.

 

[Plato]

Another jok of a ref in Barca.....it's incredible how much they get favored every games.

Arsenal deserved to lose anyway...but the ref...Absolute FARCE

Every single one of your posts has you complaining about officiating.

 

[Power Man]

A friend of mine was a Camp Nou and had a good seat

He caught Suarez' goal

 

[les Habs]

Who said he was a bad coach?

But waiting 80 minutes to correct his (obvious) mistakes surely isn't a plus in my mind.

Frankly he is to blame (with Alaba and Neuer) for Bayern struggling to get past Juventus.

But apparently he's immune to blame, making major mistakes in his lineup and correcting after 80 ****ing minutes is an example of good coaching.

Riiiiiiight.

He's not remotely immune to blame. No one said that. He's simply getting too much blame and not enough credit. You cited Alaba and Neuer, though of course less so, who are also to blame.

Mueller himself has come out and said they made defensive errors and that things didn't go according to plan. On top of that they were without key players and are really hurting in terms of defensive options at the moment. The manager can't always control every aspect.

And where was all this commentary for Mourinho? You mentioned something about Ancelotti potentially winning the CL with Bayern and Pellegrini potentially winning the CL with City. Well both Madrid and Chelsea both won the CL after Mourinho left and I've read little if anything about that.

For me Guardiola isn't immune. I've got a love/hate view towards him. I'm not happy he left but more so I'm not happy that he went after Thiago. Call that what you will, but I'm not his biggest fan at present and haven't been for a few years. Still he's overly criticized as this was an example and then he got zero credit for his role in turning things around, which hasn't even been touched on completely.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Who said he was a bad coach?

But waiting 80 minutes to correct his (obvious) mistakes surely isn't a plus in my mind.

Frankly he is to blame (with Alaba and Neuer) for Bayern struggling to get past Juventus.

But apparently he's immune to blame, making major mistakes in his lineup and correcting after 80 ****ing minutes is an example of good coaching.

Riiiiiiight.

Maybe, not bad coach but definitely a coach that isn't as good as he perceived to be...Pep jackson and what not.

Even if Thiago started this was never going to be a cake walk for Bayern... Juve aren't some canon fodder.

He's definitely no immune, I have criticized pretty everything you can regarding Pep(from career choices, to the way he conduct himself off the pitch) and I wasn't too sad when he left. I'm of course still a big fan and would welcome him back in a heart beat.

 

[Jeffrey]

My problem with Pep:
1) He loves himself too much. Just like Mourinho and his park the bus tactics. Pep see himself as football genius were ball possession is the key to win games with constant movement of the ball. The problem is the team he always coached had limitless ressources and some of the best footballer of our time. Try to implement his tactics and have success to a club like Aston Villa and I would change my tune about his tiki taka tactics.

2) Pep does not like challenge but more money. He went from one of the best team of the past decade (Barca) to the best German team of the past century (Bayern) with lot of ressources and he is going to the EPL team with the most ressources(City). You could probably ask almost any coaches on this planet and they could bring these teams to championship and cup wins. (although City is probably is biggest challenge thus far).

3) All the team he left had success before him and continued to have success after him. The Pep effect is IMO grossly overrated.

4) He is stubborn and he cannot adapt around the players to make them fit his style. If he does not see a fit he would spend money to get a replacement and don't work around his current players.

I respect the fact that he learned German to get the position at Bayern though. That's very impressive.

My final opinion that's not related to Pep but Tiki Taka is boring and remove excitement out of the game.

 

[Halladay]

Pep's problem is he cant be playing Alonso anymore in these champions league games, especially with Thiago on the bench. He never was that fast to begin with, and now he is 34.

 

[Evilo]

And where was all this commentary for Mourinho? You mentioned something about Ancelotti potentially winning the CL with Bayern and Pellegrini potentially winning the CL with City. Well both Madrid and Chelsea both won the CL after Mourinho left and I've read little if anything about that.

That's twice now that you seem to tell me I didn't criticize Mourinho enough?
Surely you must mistake me for another poster

I've made my feelings quite clear on him.

 

[cgf]

Pep is an extremely creative & clever coach, and without a doubt one of the best working in this game. But his tendency to be over-conservative with his lineup choices in big matches (at least during his Bayern tenure) has been very disappointing...outside of last year's Barca tie; when his club was so banged up that he had nothing to lose by throwing everything he had left at his ex-Club. That's a legitimate gripe about him, and as we saw, his starting lineup in this match was a mistake caused by this over-caution.

That said; he also deserves credit for fixing his initial mistakes very nicely; and turning around the match. Getting your initial strategy/tactics right is certainly important, but being able to radically adapt them when faced with their failure in heat of action deserves applause as well. Thiago and Coman were both tremendous. Getting Xabi off of the pitch alone may have saved the tie by constricting Juve's avenues to that third away goal. While moving Alaba over to CB in place of Benatia helped stabilize their backline/build-up.

This is why that conservatism in big matches annoys me so much. He's shown in times of desperation what a brilliant coach he can be...but then that next big european match, or game against one of the Borussia's, rolls around he's back to picking an excessively-conservative side to start the match. He has a brilliant football mind, but it is ultimately that of a holding midfielder; and that defensive/conservative origin seems to get the better of him in these big matches.

EDIT:
Or for the TL;DR version, this:

Pep's problem is he cant be playing Alonso anymore in these champions league games, especially with Thiago on the bench. He never was that fast to begin with, and now he is 34.

 

[Deficient Mode]

My problem with Pep:
1) He loves himself too much. Just like Mourinho and his park the bus tactics. Pep see himself as football genius were ball possession is the key to win games with constant movement of the ball. The problem is the team he always coached had limitless ressources and some of the best footballer of our time. Try to implement his tactics and have success to a club like Aston Villa and I would change my tune about his tiki taka tactics.

2) Pep does not like challenge but more money. He went from one of the best team of the past decade (Barca) to the best German team of the past century (Bayern) with lot of ressources and he is going to the EPL team with the most ressources(City). You could probably ask almost any coaches on this planet and they could bring these teams to championship and cup wins. (although City is probably is biggest challenge thus far).

3) All the team he left had success before him and continued to have success after him. The Pep effect is IMO grossly overrated.

4) He is stubborn and he cannot adapt around the players to make them fit his style. If he does not see a fit he would spend money to get a replacement and don't work around his current players.

I respect the fact that he learned German to get the position at Bayern though. That's very impressive.

My final opinion that's not related to Pep but Tiki Taka is boring and remove excitement out of the game.

All these things are very wrong (especially 3 and 4) except for arguably the challenge part, but that is wrong too imo.

 

[cgf]

All these things are very wrong (especially 3 and 4) except for arguably the challenge part, but that is wrong too imo.

You be quiet. Jupp Heynkes were winning trebles every year. EVERY YEAR!

 

[theprofessor]

Funny seeing all the daggers out for Guardiola when it's 0-2 and then Bayern score four, two coming from his substitutes, and everyone disappears.

I still don't feel he's the right man for Bayern, and he damn near cost them dearly yesterday. Tried and true offensive tactics saved the day for them. Too bad it took them almost the entire match to adjust.