CFL 2024

[brentashton]

UPS driver??? I could do that in Tucson or Laughlin or any college down in the south.

Laughlin? Went there once. Once. That was enough.

Tucson on the other hand is a great town. Love going there. I was just there last month. Went to a show at the Ronstadt Music Theater. Had some great Mexican at an old place down by the police station. Cant remember the name. Definitely true authentic, server said it had been in the same place for 80 years or something.

 

[bellagiobob]

You are so right. And it will end in them not willing to do so at such a heavy discount.

As someone whose income is all CAN$ based but I live part of the year in the US that’s a real thing for these players. Unless you have a contract that is in the upper 10% of the league and has some parts guaranteed, the other 90% of the league will continue to consist of entry level players who are hoping to extend their football career and after 1-3 years will leave for a construction job or some other vocation in the US. A constant revolving door.

I talked to a friend down south that is a recruiter for UPS and I was staggered by the comp package for a driver at say, 5 years experience. It was much better than what an average CFL player earns and it has a much longer term career trajectory with opportunities for further upward movement. He mentioned that college grads take these jobs because of the salary and benefits, including ex collegiate sports athletes who choose not to go pro. And they don’t have to relocate to a foreign country, traumatize their body etc…

Right now with exchange and fees (dependant on the amount of $ you are exchanging) it’s staggering between the two countries. Then on top of it the cost of living in the US is no better than here. We find that some stuff is slightly cheaper or at par, after exchange, but we also find a number of items that are priced the same Dollar price in both Canada and the US (ie food items are priced 5.99 in the US and then the same thing is 5.99 in Canada, so obviously 40% cheaper here, after the exchange.

I always use the Norbert’s Gambit maneuver on my brokerage acct when converting currency, saves a decent amount of money in exchange fees, depending on how much you are converting.

 

[timekeep]

Laughlin? Went there once. Once.

I like for golfing more reasonable gambling less lights/traffic and the weather. If I was living there I'd probably live across the river in Bullhead.

 

[brentashton]

I always use the Norbert’s Gambit maneuver on my brokerage acct when converting currency, saves a decent amount of money in exchange fees, depending on how much you are converting.

Thanks Bob. Never heard of this. Just googled it and going to have to investigate further.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Paralyzer]

That's great news. Glad this works out for Ford and the team. We need to show Ford HE IS THE #1. I'm excited to see what Hervey does next.

 

[brentashton]

Thought so, thanks for confirming, never really liked that kind of guy, especially at QB. But we will see how this plays out, maybe he has matured.

By all accounts he a real solid guy, a character guy that was well loved in SK, overall. The end of his time was like many other QBs not named Lancaster and he was the fall guy, but that’s more on us fans, than the players. I cut him some slack as I would have been frustrated to play in Craig Dickenson/Jason Maas’ system too. I was frustrated just watching it.

 

[bellagiobob]

That's great news. Glad this works out for Ford and the team. We need to show Ford HE IS THE #1. I'm excited to see what Hervey does next.

Crazy to think that one year ago we were taking the exact opposite approach. Very impressed with Hervey’s decisions so far.

 

[MoontoScott]

You are so right. And it will end in them not willing to do so at such a heavy discount.

As someone whose income is all CAN$ based but I live part of the year in the US that’s a real thing for these players. Unless you have a contract that is in the upper 10% of the league and has some parts guaranteed, the other 90% of the league will continue to consist of entry level players who are hoping to extend their football career and after 1-3 years will leave for a construction job or some other vocation in the US. A constant revolving door.

I talked to a friend down south that is a recruiter for UPS and I was staggered by the comp package for a driver at say, 5 years experience. It was much better than what an average CFL player earns and it has a much longer term career trajectory with opportunities for further upward movement. He mentioned that college grads take these jobs because of the salary and benefits, including ex collegiate sports athletes who choose not to go pro. And they don’t have to relocate to a foreign country, traumatize their body etc…

Right now with exchange and fees (dependant on the amount of $ you are exchanging) it’s staggering between the two countries. Then on top of it the cost of living in the US is no better than here. We find that some stuff is slightly cheaper or at par, after exchange, but we also find a number of items that are priced the same Dollar price in both Canada and the US (ie food items are priced 5.99 in the US and then the same thing is 5.99 in Canada, so obviously 40% cheaper here, after the exchange.

Well said.

The average salary in the CFL is somewhere around $75k Canadian. On an "after tax and other fees" basis it is probably closer to $55K Canadian. The exchange rate this morning is 1.4 so if you want to convert that to American dollars (55*.6) then its about 34K American.

Those are very small dollars, especially if you have a wife or spouse (children) living in the USA.

For most CFL guys it comes down to their love of the game but the discrepancy in NFL versus CFL salaries has grown to the point where a lot of guys simply won't make the voyage North. Who can blame them? Especially when you approach 30 years of age and the clock is ticking.

 

[timekeep]

Laughlin? Went there once. Once. That was enough.

Tucson on the other hand is a great town. Love going there. I was just there last month. Went to a show at the Ronstadt Music Theater. Had some great Mexican at an old place down by the police station. Cant remember the name. Definitely true authentic, server said it had been in the same place for 80 years or something.

Truthfully, went for golf and some gambling, I liked the locations and the table limits are much lower than Vegas. Food was great, especially in Bullhead and South.

Great Mexican restaurants down there too. I do like Tucson, have there a few times.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'd agree this is likely a sideways move other than the fact that stylistically Fajardo and Ford are a closer match if you don't want to have two completely separate playbooks, but I've never really been a fan of Fajardo the player.

I also suspect MBT is more likely in the head space of saying "I'm already in my late 30s and so if I'm not coming as the starter, I can just go and live the high life in Florida living off my wife's Marvel money", whereas Fajardo is a bit younger still and may have the desire to compete for a couple more years in hopes of one more starters chance.

This in turn makes it more likely he's willing to entertain a few less bucks for the right situation, and there's no doubt to me that should he decide to play hardball, Edmonton will just release him and it would be doubtful Fajardo would get any more cash from someone else with every starter's spot filled in the league and Edmonton having the smallest amount of SMS committed to QBs at the moment.

I also don't think MBT was going to re-sign here no matter what as I doubt he's the type that was cool with the fans riding him the way we did.

Granted, this is just me spitballing, and maybe it's all wrong.

--

On a separate note, interesting that this is the 2nd year in a row Edmonton acquired a QB 1 year removed from being the starter for the Grey Cup winning team. This time it was even the Grey Cup MVP. Is Arbuckle coming next year...

--

Another separate note, Fajardo for all his warts, has won more playoff games than MBT has started, and both have 2 Grey Cups, but each of them earned their first by riding the bench to Ricky Ray's 2017 Grey Cup.

Yep. The org is in a fairly continual burn it up with fire and rebuild approach. Its run like a bad expansion franchise. I get you that being a running QB makes Fajardo and Ford more similar for an RPO package. But I don't know thats enough reason to make such move.

My own take is that MBT was judged to lack fire. That he was a bit too calm and controlled for the liking of a Hervey who is given to more mercurial displays. Thus Fajardo who is that. Rather than picking better I think its picking similar qualities. That Hervey would like the fire in a Fajardo. I don't agree that Fajardo would be any less likely to want the starters job. I think his nature would select for it. The guy is a competitor. He's taken over the reigns before.

Yeah agreed MBT wasn't loved here. That was palpable and I think it wasn't a good look. I think worse that the org so much panders to fans view of what should be done rather than having direction. The Elks fans in fairness just expressing frustration with the losses, with all the seasons missing playoffs, but with that a wish to find any player to scapegoat as cause for that. For several games this season MBT was arguably the best player on the field. The team was so awful that even first 3 games where he's chucking for 1000 yds the team loses all 3 of those, and first 7. But because a lot of players weren't battling, doing much, doing their jobs. Indeed that seems endemic on this club.

Like an expansion club the one thing this org misses out on is continuity. Most successful orgs retain their better assets. the Elks seem to be rearranging deck chairs every year and the amount of change headed into next season is immense, the most change in staffing yet. Its the burn it up real good approach, and its seldom successful in pro sports. I find it interesting that with all these changes that next season success is just being assumed.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Well said.

The average salary in the CFL is somewhere around $75k Canadian. On an "after tax and other fees" basis it is probably closer to $55K Canadian. The exchange rate this morning is 1.4 so if you want to convert that to American dollars (55*.6) then its about 34K American.

Those are very small dollars, especially if you have a wife or spouse (children) living in the USA.

For most CFL guys it comes down to their love of the game but the discrepancy in NFL versus CFL salaries has grown to the point where a lot of guys simply won't make the voyage North. Who can blame them? Especially when you approach 30 years of age and the clock is ticking.

With respect though this could be missing the point. Historically many CFL players have immigrated here and become Canadians. Wasn't that long ago this was an attractive feature of being here in the CFL and with possibilities of becoming a citizen. It will be again at some time with how things are unfolding.

https://www.cfl.ca/long-read-canada-adopted-home-many-cflers/

For many the dream isn't collecting Canadian Dollars just to continue to reside in the US. Its to bring families up here and live in this country. This possibility being the case for as long as the CFL has existed.

Wasn't too long ago either that Football and other pro sports for many US athletes were the only perceived means to get out of the ghetto, to make a life, to have a way out of neighborhoods rife with violence, crime, shootings etc. Canada having murder rates historically 1/10 that of the US this too is a practical and attractive feature. As bad as we think it is here at times and for instance the tragic murder recently of the Security guard, these are isolated footnotes here. They are a weekly happening in many places down south where the carnage doesn't stop.

But I think sometimes we forget what Canadiana is or can be, and that it can be an attractive option and place to live. Aside from some drawbacks we see currently in 2024. Reminder as well that most of our families immigrated here at some point and tons of people around the world want to. We maybe lose sight of that in our current frustration with where we are in ways in 2024.

Theres many reasons potential players keep streaming over border to come here and seemingly rarely a shortage of them. Even at a time where economically Canada struggles in comparison to the US.

That aside its funny that all the players coming here of course think the 100 sign on the highways means 100MPH. lol. We should probably do something about that. They come here and think its the Autobahn. heh.

 

[bone]

Yep. The org is in a fairly continual burn it up with fire and rebuild approach. Its run like a bad expansion franchise. I get you that being a running QB makes Fajardo and Ford more similar for an RPO package. But I don't know thats enough reason to make such move.

My own take is that MBT was judged to lack fire. That he was a bit too calm and controlled for the liking of a Hervey who is given to more mercurial displays. Thus Fajardo who is that. Rather than picking better I think its picking similar qualities. That Hervey would like the fire in a Fajardo. I don't agree that Fajardo would be any less likely to want the starters job. I think his nature would select for it. The guy is a competitor. He's taken over the reigns before.

Yeah agreed MBT wasn't loved here. That was palpable and I think it wasn't a good look. I think worse that the org so much panders to fans view of what should be done rather than having direction. The Elks fans in fairness just expressing frustration with the losses, with all the seasons missing playoffs, but with that a wish to find any player to scapegoat as cause for that. For several games this season MBT was arguably the best player on the field. The team was so awful that even first 3 games where he's chucking for 1000 yds the team loses all 3 of those, and first 7. But because a lot of players weren't battling, doing much, doing their jobs. Indeed that seems endemic on this club.

Like an expansion club the one thing this org misses out on is continuity. Most successful orgs retain their better assets. the Elks seem to be rearranging deck chairs every year and the amount of change headed into next season is immense, the most change in staffing yet. Its the burn it up real good approach, and its seldom successful in pro sports. I find it interesting that with all these changes that next season success is just being assumed.

I don't think I can buy all of this. I doubt this is Hervey not liking his fire, or that Hervey is just pandering to the fans. I especially don't think MBT would be viewed to lack "fire" by Hervey as this is a guy that's been very willing to take fines to speak his mind. I bet him and Hervey would get along great.

Fans may have percieved him this way, but even that I'm not fully certain. My biggest concern with him was that he didn't seem to be the kind of guy to execute in all or nothing situations. I completely think he was busting his ass to try and make it work, but couldn't when it was most crucial to do so.

My thoughts are that this is just as likely MBT saying that he didn't like the situation last year and suggested to Hervey that he'd rather move on to somewhere else, and he's probably a pretty good fit for a Jason Maas type offense as well.

I also suspect he'll do very well in Montreal as MBT can string together wins when he's surrounded by a complete team as evidenced by his 2 good seasons in Toronto, but he hasn't been the type of guy that manages to steal wins when playing for a team with holes (i.e every other season in Toronto and Edmonton last year).

When he ultimately does well in Montreal, though, I won't be pining thinking that he'd have the same success here as both situations are basically opposite of each other.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't think I can buy all of this. I doubt this is Hervey not liking his fire, or that Hervey is just pandering to the fans. I especially don't think MBT would be viewed to lack "fire" by Hervey as this is a guy that's been very willing to take fines to speak his mind. I bet him and Hervey would get along great.

Fans may have percieved him this way, but even that I'm not fully certain. My biggest concern with him was that he didn't seem to be the kind of guy to execute in all or nothing situations. I completely think he was busting his ass to try and make it work, but couldn't when it was most crucial to do so.

My thoughts are that this is just as likely MBT saying that he didn't like the situation last year and suggested to Hervey that he'd rather move on to somewhere else, and he's probably a pretty good fit for a Jason Maas type offense as well.

I also suspect he'll do very well in Montreal as MBT can string together wins when he's surrounded by a complete team as evidenced by his 2 good seasons in Toronto, but he hasn't been the type of guy that manages to steal wins when playing for a team with holes (i.e every other season in Toronto and Edmonton last year).

When he ultimately does well in Montreal, though, I won't be pining thinking that he'd have the same success here as both situations are basically opposite of each other.

But thats the rub. Fajardo did well in Montreal primarily due to being part of a great club. The same Fajardo has had several CFL seasons where he was arguably in the running as the most boring QB in the league. I remember watching whole quarters in Sask where there wouldn't even be a first down and it seemed like the intent was either getting a shut out or the D or special teams scoring the pts... To his credit Fajardo did elevate in Montreal. I thought it was his best ball. But I suspect heavily that Fajardo is coming from a successful club that made him better to one that has been in shreds.

What are your thoughts on Hervey saying that he's interested in ridding the team of players that aren't good in the room? Seemed like the players have to have the right attitude, as perceived by Hervey (is he the best judge) to fit in here. He even mentioned the "character" thing that is often a construct rather than an objective view. When management goes in these directions they tend to evaluate on subjective judgements rather than selecting players that can just play. I'm not sold on all the schemes here or what I'm hearing. If Hervey is actually detecting there were players last year that were bad in the room (and his comments suggest this) then I wonder who those players are. Not sure if you heard the comments but they were very interesting. I woudn't feel comfortable though if I was a player. I would be thinking something strange is up. I mean this is the same thing Jones was doing. "my kind of player". I don't think Hervey is that different.

The trouble is from a player POV you just want to come to an org that is stable, that has even a belief in continuity, and that you might earn a job there for more than one year. If Hervey is busy looking at players and finding faults its generally something players don't want to hear and stay away from.

 

[MoontoScott]

With respect though this could be missing the point. Historically many CFL players have immigrated here and become Canadians. Wasn't that long ago this was an attractive feature of being here in the CFL and with possibilities of becoming a citizen. It will be again at some time with how things are unfolding.

https://www.cfl.ca/long-read-canada-adopted-home-many-cflers/

For many the dream isn't collecting Canadian Dollars just to continue to reside in the US. Its to bring families up here and live in this country. This possibility being the case for as long as the CFL has existed.

Wasn't too long ago either that Football and other pro sports for many US athletes were the only perceived means to get out of the ghetto, to make a life, to have a way out of neighborhoods rife with violence, crime, shootings etc. Canada having murder rates historically 1/10 that of the US this too is a practical and attractive feature. As bad as we think it is here at times and for instance the tragic murder recently of the Security guard, these are isolated footnotes here. They are a weekly happening in many places down south where the carnage doesn't stop.

But I think sometimes we forget what Canadiana is or can be, and that it can be an attractive option and place to live. Aside from some drawbacks we see currently in 2024. Reminder as well that most of our families immigrated here at some point and tons of people around the world want to. We maybe lose sight of that in our current frustration with where we are in ways in 2024.

Theres many reasons potential players keep streaming over border to come here and seemingly rarely a shortage of them. Even at a time where economically Canada struggles in comparison to the US.

That aside its funny that all the players coming here of course think the 100 sign on the highways means 100MPH. lol. We should probably do something about that. They come here and think its the Autobahn. heh.

Some players do stay but most return to their home states.

The very low salaries account for the play we see on the field. In the 60's and 70's the CFL and the NFL paid similar bucks and thats why guys like Theismann, Brock and Moon played here. That doesn't happen today.

 

[bone]

But thats the rub. Fajardo did well in Montreal primarily due to being part of a great club. The same Fajardo has had several CFL seasons where he was arguably in the running as the most boring QB in the league. I remember watching whole quarters in Sask where there wouldn't even be a first down and it seemed like the intent was either getting a shut out or the D or special teams scoring the pts... To his credit Fajardo did elevate in Montreal. I thought it was his best ball. But I suspect heavily that Fajardo is coming from a successful club that made him better to one that has been in shreds.

What are your thoughts on Hervey saying that he's interested in ridding the team of players that aren't good in the room? Seemed like the players have to have the right attitude, as perceived by Hervey (is he the best judge) to fit in here. He even mentioned the "character" thing that is often a construct rather than an objective view. When management goes in these directions they tend to evaluate on subjective judgements rather than selecting players that can just play. I'm not sold on all the schemes here or what I'm hearing. If Hervey is actually detecting there were players last year that were bad in the room (and his comments suggest this) then I wonder who those players are. Not sure if you heard the comments but they were very interesting. I woudn't feel comfortable though if I was a player. I would be thinking something strange is up. I mean this is the same thing Jones was doing. "my kind of player". I don't think Hervey is that different.

I did not listen to any interviews yesterday so can't comment much on that, but really it's no secret there were issues in that room the last few years. We had Purifoy having a social media meltdown for not being selected to the All-Star team and I seem to recall a few other missteps from others which came across as "me first" type attitudes, I'm just failing to remember the specifics at this moment. Also keep in mind there were a few guys on those sidelines that Hervey has a history with in guys like Sewell or Willis on top of any of the players he would have already talked to that are likely feeding his opinion.

Every GM and coach will have their type of guys. This isn't a surprise. I even suspect a lot of the guys that would typically be a Jones guy would also be a Hervey guy in terms of how they act in a dressing room or on the field. As for him being the judge, he doesn't need to be the only judge, he's got guys around him that he trusts to help in that assessment, moreso than Jones did being that he was taking on so many roles, so we'll just have to wait and see how that goes.

As for the players potentially feeling uncomfortable, that's to be expected after a change, but I'd argue the guys that are feeling uncomfortable may be exactly the type he'd be looking for as that could imply they like it here and want to stay.

Where I have a bit of hope in Hervey vs. Jones is that Jones has always been a mercenary and as such likely looks at players similarly. Hervey is a guy that I can recall only once openly considering chasing the money, but stayed after Fleming asked to restructure his contract to fit Hervey into their budget. As such he can probably see the right guys by seeing a bit of himself in them, and you could argue his last stint he did precisely that in locking up guys (or part of finding them while being Head Scout) who became part of the culture in Willis, Sewell, Reilly, O'Donnell, Sherritt, etc.

I also gained some hope from yesterday survey results as Hamilton came out as the gold standard in the results despite having the same record as Edmonton last year. Since Hervey and the AGM he brought with him were performing a similar role there, I think he's well positioned to see where he can focus so that the types of players that are good and would consider sticking around have less reasons to consider leaving.

 

[brentashton]

With respect though this could be missing the point. Historically many CFL players have immigrated here and become Canadians. Wasn't that long ago this was an attractive feature of being here in the CFL and with possibilities of becoming a citizen. It will be again at some time with how things are unfolding.


For many the dream isn't collecting Canadian Dollars just to continue to reside in the US. Its to bring families up here and live in this country. This possibility being the case for as long as the CFL has existed.

.

Drai, do you think this is still a motivator?

I agree it once was, but I sense that’s isn’t a thing anymore. I don’t want to move this into a political discussion but based on reading I’ve done and anecdotal information I’ve gleaned, I don’t believe the average American sees citizenship in Canada as a desirous path for the most part. Heck, I’ve read (and I’m sure you’ve read some of the same) stories of recent immigrants to Canada who are disappointed with the lack of opportunities who then pivot to move Stateside for the greater potential they see.

Many Americans see Canada as just another jurisdiction with many so socioeconomic/political issues and lack of leadership on them.

Staying with the devil they know becomes preferential.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Drai, do you think this is still a motivator?

I agree it once was, but I sense that’s isn’t a thing anymore. I don’t want to move this into a political discussion but based on reading I’ve done and anecdotal information I’ve gleaned, I don’t believe the average American sees citizenship in Canada as a desirous path for the most part. Heck, I’ve read (and I’m sure you’ve read some of the same) stories of recent immigrants to Canada who are disappointed with the lack of opportunities who then pivot to move Stateside for the greater potential they see.

Many Americans see Canada as just another jurisdiction with many so socioeconomic/political issues and lack of leadership on them.

Staying with the devil they know becomes preferential.

I honestly think things will be stepping back into a better position. Pendulum swings, its very clearly swung, on this side of the border as well. Could take a year, could take a decade. I feel better at where things are headed than I have for the last dozen yrs here. Without getting into details.

So to answer the bolded presently its not, but it needs to for the CFL, or very many endeavors here to be successful. Without improvements we're in trouble.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Some players do stay but most return to their home states.

The very low salaries account for the play we see on the field. In the 60's and 70's the CFL and the NFL paid similar bucks and thats why guys like Theismann, Brock and Moon played here. That doesn't happen today.

But if you listen to Ed Hervey, and I'm somebody that goes into minutaie on a regular basis, you see that he's not only wanting the players to stay here he's expecting it. He even said so. Its his statements on record that the team and org need to get back to a formula where players want to be here, want to reside here, believe in here, he's very passionate about that and has been since his opening presser. He states he wants players to live here, be here in offseason, buy into the here, literally.

Hervey is an intense character that is far more opinionated than most, and he's as Opinionated as Jones was. This is a good and fair article. Its a balanced look at Hervey reinvention here. Its not like the scribes here that are falling all over themselves that this will be great. Its a balanced piece:

https://3downnation.com/2024/11/21/ed-hervey-vows-to-fix-laughing-stock-edmonton-elks-threatens-dissenters/

Hervey is being crystal clear on what his statements are. I think this is too pandering to fanbase. But its just saying what they want to hear. The very possibility, and you and others are seeing it to, is that the "eskimo way" that Morris and Hervey are envisioning, maybe it doesn't exist anymore. My Perception since Hervey had been here last is increasingly players are just here for the cheques. he senses that too. I think it can be different again but we're not at that point, and certainly Cad isn't at this point.

Disappointingly even Mike Reilly, who I revered was tied into the blow up that happened in BC. Allegedly Hervey had made contractual promises to Mike that were not honored, and went to court proceeding. So that he knows indelibly for players now its mostly about the money.

The trouble with what Hervey and Morris are espousing is they better bring in more players in TC because a lot of them will be leaving or deemed not suitable. A lot of them too may not be amenable to the all consuming expectation Hervey and Morris are bringing. Jones struggled bigtime with this too. His expectation of players here was based on what he would get in the past, but not on what they are prepared to deliver here now. Does this make any sense? See, I hear you and others talking about the economic realities here presently. We have to rebuild here in Canada. But we're certainly not there yet, and certainly the org isn't there yet. I could see players coming here and hearing Hervey and thinking home might look better. Its a potential problem.

The pay were giving here, especially in terms of Cad, is not commensurate with the expectations Hervey and Morris are pinning down. Thats a problem.

We're going to see personnel change in players. Hervey in words has prepared us for that. The trouble is its likely to be another year with a lot of roster turnover. Hopefully we keep all the right ones.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I did not listen to any interviews yesterday so can't comment much on that, but really it's no secret there were issues in that room the last few years. We had Purifoy having a social media meltdown for not being selected to the All-Star team and I seem to recall a few other missteps from others which came across as "me first" type attitudes, I'm just failing to remember the specifics at this moment. Also keep in mind there were a few guys on those sidelines that Hervey has a history with in guys like Sewell or Willis on top of any of the players he would have already talked to that are likely feeding his opinion.

Every GM and coach will have their type of guys. This isn't a surprise. I even suspect a lot of the guys that would typically be a Jones guy would also be a Hervey guy in terms of how they act in a dressing room or on the field. As for him being the judge, he doesn't need to be the only judge, he's got guys around him that he trusts to help in that assessment, moreso than Jones did being that he was taking on so many roles, so we'll just have to wait and see how that goes.

As for the players potentially feeling uncomfortable, that's to be expected after a change, but I'd argue the guys that are feeling uncomfortable may be exactly the type he'd be looking for as that could imply they like it here and want to stay.

Where I have a bit of hope in Hervey vs. Jones is that Jones has always been a mercenary and as such likely looks at players similarly. Hervey is a guy that I can recall only once openly considering chasing the money, but stayed after Fleming asked to restructure his contract to fit Hervey into their budget. As such he can probably see the right guys by seeing a bit of himself in them, and you could argue his last stint he did precisely that in locking up guys (or part of finding them while being Head Scout) who became part of the culture in Willis, Sewell, Reilly, O'Donnell, Sherritt, etc.

I also gained some hope from yesterday survey results as Hamilton came out as the gold standard in the results despite having the same record as Edmonton last year. Since Hervey and the AGM he brought with him were performing a similar role there, I think he's well positioned to see where he can focus so that the types of players that are good and would consider sticking around have less reasons to consider leaving.

Sorry for confusion. interview wasn't yesterday I got sidetracked by org releases that were yesterday. Org frequently posting news on twitter, facebook etc now. Good call Purifoy is one, he probably won't be here. Lewis is another though. The guy has talked openly, and often about personal results rather than team results. He's a guy more concerned the ball is being chucked his way then whether thats where the play should go. Unfortunately players like he and Lawler in present day, while very good players, they don't bring the team concept Hervey is looking for.

I agree with you that a Jones or Hervey type player is probably a similar type of thing. But that gives creedence to my view of Hervey just being another Jones in here and he has been that elsewhere as well. Reality is management with other clubs didn't go so well for Ed and it can't even be described as successful.

Read my reply to Moon. I fear that all of Hervey, Jones, Morris, Sherrit will be searching for a nature of commitment from players that no longer exists here, or that is not as common here now. Its unlikely they find a bunch of Rankins. They might find some. I think some more players will be gone from here and we don't know who replaces. As mentioned my fear is lack of continuity on an off the field and another year of growing pains and a team trying to gell through mammoth changes in personal. We had that just this season starting 0-7 and largely due to a team being inexperienced, and inexperienced with each other.