CFL 2024

[bone]

Tom Higgins got fired for calling a fake punt that missed by an eyelash once. There is precedent for firing coaches for sins far less than what Maas did.

I don't think it was out of line at all to question whether he was the right person for the job at that point. Whether he knew the score or not, the call was incredibly dumb and it speaks to his difficulty focusing when it matters. At that time anyways. The outbursts, the lack of adjustments at half, the play calls that made no sense in the context of time on the clock, etc. All indicate someone that operates on emotion, not focus and discipline.

I think he's somewhat improved in this area over time, but I wanted him gone then.

And how did that work out for Edmonton going forward?

All it did was start the ongoing undeserved promotion of Maciocia, starting with him underachieving his way into an underdog Grey Cup as a 3rd seed with mostly players acquired by Higgins and started this nearly 20 year stretch where Edmonton has literally been the worst team in the entire league and it's not particularly close.

Since they fired Higgins for a single bad play the team is:

- tied for 7th in Grey Cup appearances (they'd be alone in 9th if we start the marker one year later at 2006)
- 8th in playoff appearances in their own division (only behind Ottawa who had 9 less seasons to accumulate appearances and would be tied for last if starting one year later at 2006)
- 9th in home playoff games
- 9th in home Divisional final games
- 8th in playoff appearance (only behind Ottawa who had 9 less seasons and would be tied for last if starting the cournter at 2006 instead of 2005)

So yeah firing a coach that has had success to that point over one bad call in a playoff game is very smart and should be done every time. Granted Tom Higgins wasn't some brilliant irreplacement football mind that got away, but I've little doubt he could have at least matched what DM did the next season and beyond.

Also another difference between the two is Higgins was an established football person with 20 years of coaching experience where you would hold them to a higher standard. Maas was about about raw a coach as you could have. So one was at their peak potential making that mistake, the other was still raw and developing.

 

[K1984]

And how did that work out for Edmonton going forward?

All it did was start the ongoing undeserved promotion of Maciocia, starting with him underachieving his way into an underdog Grey Cup as a 3rd seed and started this nearly 20 year stretch where Edmonton has literally been the worst team in the entire league and it's not particularly close.

Since they fired Higgins for a single bad play the team is:

- tied for 7th in Grey Cup appearances (they'd be alone in 9th if we start the marker one year later at 2006)
- 8th in playoff appearances in their own division (only behind Ottawa who had 9 less seasons to accumulate appearances and would be tied for last if starting one year later at 2006)
- 9th in home playoff games
- 9th in home Divisional final games
- 8th in playoff appearance (only behind Ottawa who had 9 less seasons and would be tied for last if starting the cournter at 2006 instead of 2005)

So yeah firing a coach that has had success to that point over one bad call in a playoff game is very smart and should be done every time. Granted Tom Higgins wasn't some brilliant irreplacement football mind that got away, but I've little doubt he could have at least matched what DM did the next season and beyond.

Also another difference between the two is Higgins was an established football person with 20 years of coaching experience where you would hold them to a higher standard. Maas was about about raw a coach as you could have. So one was at their peak potential making that mistake, the other was still raw and developing.

Higgins had a track record of winning, Maas didn't. If anyone deserved more rope it was Higgins, especially when that fake punt was a footnote on what I believe was a 9 turnover game by the Eskimos or something crazy like that. That play wasn't even why they lost, and had the ball been half an inch behind where it came down the Eskimos probably win on that play despite their mess in the rest of the game. Agree that it was ridiculous to fire him, and the start of the slow decline to where we are today.

If you're a professional coach, you should know better than what Maas did there. I don't see inexperience as any sort of excuse. Give that play call decision to a 14 year old that plays Madden in his free time and they would have known to go for it. That wasn't a gamble gone bad, or a decision that makes sense with any explanation. Pure, utter incompetence, that may have cost the team a Grey Cup in the end. Fireable IMO.

 

[bone]

Speaking of Higgins, just realized Chris Morris had hired him a few years ago as DC for the Golden Bears.

Wonder if there's some type of role in the cards for him since they obviously have connections to each other in that HIggins was the GM or AGM for most of his playing career and Morris thought enough of him to hire him as a DC when he was coaching the Bears.

I don't necessarily like the idea, but would Morris be inclined?

 

[bone]

Higgins had a track record of winning, Maas didn't. If anyone deserved more rope it was Higgins, especially when that fake punt was a footnote on what I believe was a 9 turnover game by the Eskimos or something crazy like that. That play wasn't even why they lost, and had the ball been half an inch behind where it came down the Eskimos probably win on that play despite their mess in the rest of the game. Agree that it was ridiculous to fire him, and the start of the slow decline to where we are today.

If you're a professional coach, you should know better than what Maas did there. I don't see inexperience as any sort of excuse. Give that play call decision to a 14 year old that plays Madden in his free time and they would have known to go for it. That wasn't a gamble gone bad, or a decision that makes sense with any explanation. Pure, utter incompetence, that may have cost the team a Grey Cup in the end. Fireable IMO.

I think we're on the same page about Higgins even though he accomplished little after leaving. In retrospect, he may have been the better option to take the reigns from Campbell when he retired, as the bad decisions seemed to have started as Lelacheur took over from Campbell (RL also likely played a role in firing Higgins).

For Maas, we'll just have to agree to disagree, and seeing how he's possibly one of the top 3 coaches in the CFL now, I think keeping him was the right decision even knowing what came out of the next two years, unless you subscribe to the idea that it would have lead to firing BS prior to COVID.

 

[bellagiobob]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853827074982924645

Be interesting where Adams ends up, and that will likely have an impact on where Ford ends up. I could see Harris retiring or Sask moving on from him, and could see the Bombers and Hamilton moving on from their aging QB’s.

 

[K1984]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853827074982924645

Be interesting where Adams ends up, and that will likely have an impact on where Ford ends up. I could see Harris retiring or Sask moving on from him, and could see the Bombers and Hamilton moving on from their aging QB’s.

Will be another round of musical QB chairs.

Ford to Winnipeg, Adams to Calgary, Harris to Hamilton, Bo Levi to Saskatchewan. Something like that.

 

[Stoneman89]

Unfortunately in that line of work, that tends to happen as they often have to listen to absolutely stupid ramblings by some callers which in turn jades them into being a bit of an ass to some ramblings that may deserve more consideration than they may be willing to entertain.

In that specific instance firing a coach over one single play (even if it was pretty stupid call) when he had took the team to Division Finals in back to back seasons and was one said mistake away from potentially going to the Grey Cup was an absurd over reaction. Especially being that happened in his first two seasons ever as HC and he even only had one season as an OC prior to that opportunity.

Yah, sorry not buying the argument that they get to be an ass because of some unruly callers. I don't recall John Short ever being that way in all the time he was in the chair.

There was a time that I would have strongly agreed with the Stauffer/Campbell comparison but that time passed a few seasons ago. Somewhere, somehow Dave Campbell made himself into the most credible, connected & balanced CFL beat reporter in the Edmonton market. Hacks like Post Media's Gerry Moddejonge could use a whole bunch of whatever helped Campbell improve his craft.

Gerry Moddejonge is a bootlicker, no question, will agree on that.

 

[bone]

Yah, sorry not buying the argument that they get to be an ass because of some unruly callers. I don't recall John Short ever being that way in all the time he was in the chair.

Fair enough. John Short was a unique broadcaster though.

 

[Stoneman89]

Fair enough. John Short was a unique broadcaster though.

He was, but he did prove it could be done. His putdowns of certain callers always exuded class and wit. Such as his famous, " you have a democratic right to be wrong." Sure miss John.

 

[bellagiobob]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853953634033438904

 

[Arty Spooners Bsmnt]

Higgins had a track record of winning, Maas didn't. If anyone deserved more rope it was Higgins, especially when that fake punt was a footnote on what I believe was a 9 turnover game by the Eskimos or something crazy like that. That play wasn't even why they lost, and had the ball been half an inch behind where it came down the Eskimos probably win on that play despite their mess in the rest of the game. Agree that it was ridiculous to fire him, and the start of the slow decline to where we are today.

If you're a professional coach, you should know better than what Maas did there. I don't see inexperience as any sort of excuse. Give that play call decision to a 14 year old that plays Madden in his free time and they would have known to go for it. That wasn't a gamble gone bad, or a decision that makes sense with any explanation. Pure, utter incompetence, that may have cost the team a Grey Cup in the end. Fireable IMO.

I thought it was 12.

 

[bone]

I thought it was 12.

I seem to recall that as well (well maybe not 12 but a shitton of turnovers), but looking on CFLDB it appears that it was only 4. 3 on downs and one fumble. Looking back, it was a rough one for Fleming. 2 missed FGs, a punt single giving field position in the 4th, then failing to complete the pass. Maybe if he made the FGs they wouldn't have gambled.

 

[bone]

I seem to recall that as well (well maybe not 12 but a shitton of turnovers), but looking on CFLDB it appears that it was only 4. 3 on downs and one fumble. Looking back, it was a rough one for Fleming. 2 missed FGs, a punt single giving field position in the 4th, then failing to complete the pass. Maybe if he made the FGs they wouldn't have gambled.

Found the game we were thinking of. It was the 2001 Western Final where Maas and Greene combined for 3 INTs, and the team fumbled 5 times, but can't see whether there were any turnovers on downs.

 

[Arty Spooners Bsmnt]

Found the game we were thinking of. It was the 2001 Western Final where Maas and Greene combined for 3 INTs, and the team fumbled 5 times, but can't see whether there were any turnovers on downs.

There were 12 turnovers, so the rest must have been on downs. Spector's column the next day was when I realized how stupid as he when he marvelled at the offensive genius of George Cortez and completely ignored the 12 turnovers.

Game on youtube:

 

[Stoneman89]

There were 12 turnovers, so the rest must have been on downs. Spector's column the next day was when I realized how stupid as he when he marvelled at the offensive genius of George Cortez and completely ignored the 12 turnovers.

Game on youtube:

An actual playoff game? Good times......