CFL 2024

[Barrsy]

At first I thought the change was mostly managerial incompetence, but now looking back I think it was mostly out of laziness and not wanting to deal with it.

Defending the brand against the mob and all the mud that goes with it is hard. It takes a dedicated and passionate voice to fight that battle (ie. Brown), and I just don't think they had that at any level of the organization. Board was incompetent and didn't care. Presson probably hadn't seen an indigenous person in real life before he got here.

When you're choosing between having to find new sponsors, stave off a PR war, have the loud minority call you and your organization racist, do the hard work of engaging with indigenous groups, etc and simply changing the name and having it all go away - it's probably not hard for someone that has zero passion or understanding of the team and the brand to simply say "f*** it" and make the change.

Thats a reasonable take. Its certainly hard to stave that off. But it certainly can be reasonably argues that its cultural appropriation && /or racist. I don't agree with it but its not an outrageous take.
I do wonder ()as I said above) if they somehow could have been the "Esks".

 

[K1984]

Thats a reasonable take. Its certainly hard to stave that off. But it certainly can be reasonably argues that its cultural appropriation && /or racist. I don't agree with it but its not an outrageous take.
I do wonder ()as I said above) if they somehow could have been the "Esks".

Sure, you could make that argument in the same vein as determining that white people that choose to braid their hair are racist or a black person opening a Ukrainian restaurant is racist.

It's complete f***ing nonsense to people that have the ability to think for themselves, but to those pushing the agenda it is black and white.

 

[Barrsy]

Sure, you could make that argument in the same vein as determining that white people that choose to braid their hair are racist or a black person opening a Ukrainian restaurant is racist.

It's complete f***ing nonsense to people that have the ability to think for themselves, but to those pushing the agenda it is black and white.

Not at all the same.
Clearly you don't get it.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Sure, you could make that argument in the same vein as determining that white people that choose to braid their hair are racist or a black person opening a Ukrainian restaurant is racist.

It's complete f***ing nonsense to people that have the ability to think for themselves, but to those pushing the agenda it is black and white.

This was actually a really funny post I agree with .

 

[Barrsy]

This was actually a really funny post I agree with .

So to play Devils advocate. Indians (as in Cleveland) is OK? Redskins I gotta assume is no good, correct?

 

[Heavy Dee]

So to play Devils advocate. Indians (as in Cleveland) is OK? Redskins I gotta assume is no good, correct?

I don't know Barrs, all I will say is that there have been really strong ownership groups like in Atlanta (Braves) Chicago (Blackhawks) and KC (Chiefs) that have stood strong in the face of pressure to comply with the political and sometimes woke mobs demanding a name change. No I won't debate each one.

My own free thought is if we would have had different leadership at the time, this would have been resolved without a name change and everyone would feel if not happy, then at least respected.

 

[Barrsy]

I don't know Barrs, all I will say is that there have been really strong ownership groups like in Atlanta (Braves) Chicago (Blackhawks) and KC (Chiefs) that have stood strong in the face of pressure to comply with the political and sometimes woke mobs demanding a name change. No I won't debate each one.

My own free thought is if we would have had different leadership at the time, this would have been resolved without a name change and everyone would feel if not happy, then at least respected.

Thats fair and again, reasonable. But calling people "woke mobs" by those who are of the view that think the name change should occur is no different than calling those on the other side "racists pigs" , just on the flip side.
Anyways, Ive said my bit. Its getting too political.
And again, I was against the name change.

 

[joestevens29]

A few years ago I spoke with Presson directly about this process (if you can even call it that). Basically he shrugged his shoulders and said "well we did a lot of polling at the time and the polling said we should change it." Basically no effort at all to defend the brand, fight for the brand, get meaningful input from Inuit leaders, etc, etc, etc. Did a study, study concluded to change it, then that's that.

As much as Len Rhoades was a shitty President, he did do a good job on this file. First time the "change the name!" nonsense came up was at the 2015 Grey Cup when the woke mayor of Winnipeg decided to use hosting a Grey Cup with the Eskimos in it as an opportunity to grand stand. I remember thinking it was actually a joke at first. Rhoades almost immediately engaged with Inuit leaders, if I remember right used to fly them in annually, and basically worked diligently to build that relationship and give them a sense of ownership over the brand. He could see the hurricane of bullshit coming and got ahead of it. Then Presson came in, panicked, and the board went right along with him.

I remember asking Presson if any consideration was paid to how the emotional roller coaster of the time may have impacted polling results and if those results could have changed over time once people calmed down and the news cycle moved on. Basically got an "uhhhhhhh" as a response.

Used the same people to do the polling as Bettman I see.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I agree with almost everything what he said. But when it came to consultation regarding the name change, its absolutely false to say, suggest or imply they didn't consult/do their due diligence.
I don't like the result, but it was a no win, was very nuanced/certainly was not a black & white issue, but frankly I think it was inevitable.
I do wonder if they could have rebranded as the "Esks" somehow & kiboshed the Eskimo name.

https://canadianbusiness.com/ideas/cfl-edmonton-elks-name-change-cost/

Some good info in this article but there’s also clear bias trying to paint the name change as a great success when the truth is that it’s been an unmitigated disaster.

Season ticket sales were devastated and corporate sponsors like Bel Air pulled chute anyway. The result is a team on the edge of financial oblivion, forced to move on from over 100 years of community ownership in favour of a private owner with deep pockets. Even that seems to be going awry, apparently there was all these interested parties and they wanted to have a deal done before the season even started but the saga is still dragging on, seems that interest dries up once people get a look at the books and see just how bad things are.

 

[joestevens29]

According to Presson, "even our own fans" were heavily in favour of changing the name as a result of their study. Asked what defines a "fan," which he wasn't sure of. I told him that even standing in the line to get into the stadium for the first game back in 2021 that multiple people were loudly complaining about the name change, which was before I got to my seats where I could hear more people complaining about the name change. Indication was that actual paying fans didn't like it. Got another "uhhhh" response.

What it sounds like is they did a focus group of random people, or people self identifying as "fans," got the answer they wanted, then moved on.

They talked to the Karen's of the world that are full time protesters.

 

[Barrsy]

Some good info in this article but there’s also clear bias trying to paint the name change as a great success when the truth is that it’s been an unmitigated disaster.

Season ticket sales were devastated and corporate sponsors like Bel Air pulled chute anyway. The result is a team on the edge of financial oblivion, forced to move on from over 100 years of community ownership in favour of a private owner with deep pockets. Even that seems to be going awry, apparently there was all these interested parties and they wanted to have a deal done before the season even started but the saga is still dragging on, seems that interest dries up once people get a look at the books and see just how bad things are.

N/m

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

That Trent Brown interview was legendary...completely nuked the entire franchise which was awesome

he's right about the Tailgate....it is AWESOME and if anyone dares go to the game, stop by there first (better than the game)

I'm legit scared of the new owner being clueless like the Board is right now though, based on his commets

 

[joestevens29]

That Trent Brown interview was legendary...completely nuked the entire franchise which was awesome

he's right about the Tailgate....it is AWESOME and if anyone dares go to the game, stop by there first (better than the game)

I'm legit scared of the new owner being clueless like the Board is right now though, based on his commets

Feel like you have to pretty clueless to want to buy them at this point. Unless someone is paying you to take the team.

 

[K1984]

That Trent Brown interview was legendary...completely nuked the entire franchise which was awesome

he's right about the Tailgate....it is AWESOME and if anyone dares go to the game, stop by there first (better than the game)

I'm legit scared of the new owner being clueless like the Board is right now though, based on his commets

Difference is the new ownership is going to be torching their own money.

This volunteer board can come in, half ass it, then move on. They don't care, and have no vested interest in caring. "Burned another $4M this year? Whatever, new owner's problem."

 

[K1984]

Feel like you have to pretty clueless to want to buy them at this point. Unless someone is paying you to take the team.

The financial hole to make up is so deep that I don't know where you even start. It's not like losses are one time, or under $1M where some adjustments and simple changes can make a difference in making up the shortfall.

The problems are systemic, and probably not solvable without further investment in marketing, ticket discounts, community outreach, football ops investments, etc. With losses at the level they are, you kind of only have one shot at fixing the problem through investment before smart people would realize that they're just throwing good money at bad.

 

[grego]

I would say the Edmonton team is at a level where for a few years they may need to pull a play from us hockey teams or minor league teams.

Group game plans of the four person type and includes hotdog and a pop. Just to get some number of people in the seats.

At some point people go to other events for a social aspect. Otherwise you can sit at home with a wide screen tv and from the fridge concessions with no parking issues. They need to get enough at the game beyond just stopping the losses but to make it an event

 

[oXo Cube]

IMO the franchise is close to unrecoverable from a financial perspective and I really can't imagine why any private parties would be interested at all, but if someone wants to try it starts with community outreach. Need to double the number of butts in the seats even if a third of them are getting into the building for free.

I'm a name change supporter but it's also quite clear that the new brand they went with isn't working so this probably would include going back to that well and trying something else.

 

[grego]

I think elk was just a bad choice. You don't have fear at the thought of an elk think of all animals fear the elk

At least in hockey with the penguins it is cute. They are ice related and let's you have a fun nickname for the arena of the igloo for years.

What is the thing for the elk make people excited to wear foam antlers to the game?

I think it won because it sounded close. As a riders fan I considered boring Edmonton football club a better name than the elk

 

[MoontoScott]

At first I thought the change was mostly managerial incompetence, but now looking back I think it was mostly out of laziness and not wanting to deal with it.

Defending the brand against the mob and all the mud that goes with it is hard. It takes a dedicated and passionate voice to fight that battle (ie. Brown), and I just don't think they had that at any level of the organization. Board was incompetent and didn't care. Presson probably hadn't seen an indigenous person in real life before he got here.

When you're choosing between having to find new sponsors, stave off a PR war, have the loud minority call you and your organization racist, do the hard work of engaging with indigenous groups, etc and simply changing the name and having it all go away - it's probably not hard for someone that has zero passion or understanding of the team and the brand to simply say "f*** it" and make the change.

Quite right. Resisting this sort of pressure takes really big balls. Changing the name back will be next to impossible with the forces you are up against. Even if you were a billionaire, would you want to put yourself and your family in the firing line, even if this was an NFL team? I think most would answer no.

 

[K1984]

I think elk was just a bad choice. You don't have fear at the thought of an elk think of all animals fear the elk

At least in hockey with the penguins it is cute. They are ice related and let's you have a fun nickname for the arena of the igloo for years.

What is the thing for the elk make people excited to wear foam antlers to the game?

I think it won because it sounded close. As a riders fan I considered boring Edmonton football club a better name than the elk

"ELKS CHARGE! ANTLER UP!"

"WOULD YOU THINK OF ALL THE THINGS THEY CAN DO WITH THE ANTLERS!"

 

[MoontoScott]

"ELKS CHARGE! ANTLER UP!"

"WOULD YOU THINK OF ALL THE THINGS THEY CAN DO WITH THE ANTLERS!"

You can put them up over the fireplace.

 

[joestevens29]

The financial hole to make up is so deep that I don't know where you even start. It's not like losses are one time, or under $1M where some adjustments and simple changes can make a difference in making up the shortfall.

The problems are systemic, and probably not solvable without further investment in marketing, ticket discounts, community outreach, football ops investments, etc. With losses at the level they are, you kind of only have one shot at fixing the problem through investment before smart people would realize that they're just throwing good money at bad.

There is also dealing with our City Council who sounded like weren't really the best at giving a commitment at one time.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Quite right. Resisting this sort of pressure takes really big balls. Changing the name back will be next to impossible with the forces you are up against. Even if you were a billionaire, would you want to put yourself and your family in the firing line, even if this was an NFL team? I think most would answer no.

Uber rich people don’t give a shit, they can insulate themselves from the commoners who might be upset. Besides if there’s a big enough uproar maybe you force the CFL to go out and find a buyer to take it off your hands at a premium.

Look at Donald Sterling, what was his punishment for being a racist? The league forced him to sell his team and went out and found a buyer for a then record 2 billion dollars, how awful for the guy.

Dan Snyder is another one, a real piece of work in more ways then one, he eventually had his arm twisted into selling but the league went out and found a buyer to pay him 6 billion, the most a sports franchise has ever sold for. What a punishment for being a piece of crap.

Look at Mereulo with the Coyotes just recently. He wasn’t necessarily a total piece of crap but the league wanted him out and found a sucker to pay a billion dollars for a team probably worth half that.

Seems like it’s pretty profitable to make waves for a league and forcing them to go find someone to buy you out at a premium.

 

[joestevens29]

Uber rich people don’t give a shit, they can insulate themselves from the commoners who might be upset. Besides if there’s a big enough uproar maybe you force the CFL to go out and find a buyer to take it off your hands at a premium.

Look at Donald Sterling, what was his punishment for being a racist? The league forced him to sell his team and went out and found a buyer for a then record 2 billion dollars, how awful for the guy.

Dan Snyder is another one, a real piece of work in more ways then one, he eventually had his arm twisted into selling but the league went out and found a buyer to pay him 6 billion, the most a sports franchise has ever sold for. What a punishment for being a piece of crap.

Look at Mereulo with the Coyotes just recently. He wasn’t necessarily a total piece of crap but the league wanted him out and found a sucker to pay a billion dollars for a team probably worth half that.

Seems like it’s pretty profitable to make waves for a league and forcing them to go find someone to buy you out at a premium.

It’s the cfl ni one is paying a premium

Even if they do a premium in cfl is nothing like those other situations

 

[bellagiobob]

According to Presson, "even our own fans" were heavily in favour of changing the name as a result of their study. Asked what defines a "fan," which he wasn't sure of. I told him that even standing in the line to get into the stadium for the first game back in 2021 that multiple people were loudly complaining about the name change, which was before I got to my seats where I could hear more people complaining about the name change. Indication was that actual paying fans didn't like it. Got another "uhhhh" response.

What it sounds like is they did a focus group of random people, or people self identifying as "fans," got the answer they wanted, then moved on.

Sounds like Bett365man’s answer when he was questioned about the moving board ads, said that they did a poll and all the fans loved them. Likely the poll was limited to his family members who were promised a dinner out if they answered ‘correctly’. No different than this one. You can skew poll results anyway you want by a number of different ways.