Celebrini for Calder

[Hodge]

"Give Bedard a break he's only 19!!!"

Meanwhile at 19:
Ovechkin - 52G 106P
Crosby - 120P, Art Ross, Hart Trophy
McDavid - 100P, Art Ross, Hart Trophy, dragged EDM to first playoff berth in 11 years

We know what a generational player looks like at this age and scoring less than a point a game while being awful defensively ain't it.

Of course Bedard is on a bad team with little help. That tends to be the case when you're selected 1st overall.

 

[timorous me]

I don't think it was just online weirdo Smurf nerds suggesting Bedard was generational.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I don't know how literally you mean this, but no player single-handledly drags their team to championships in hockey. It's why McDavid is Cup-less (and he has Draisaitl).

I was exaggerating a bit, obviously, but I think you know what I mean.

 

[TheBeard]

Of course Bedard is on a bad team with little help. That tends to be the case when you're selected 1st overall.

Outside of ovi, does that also apply to Crosby and McDavid? Ovi also couldn’t hit the playoffs until he was 22 despite his goal totals so the idea of anyone “single-handed my dragging a team” (I know, not you) is an absurd insinuation and frankly insulting to the idea that hockey is the ultimate team sport.

e know what a generational player looks like at this age and scoring less than a point a game while being awful defensively ain't it.

If Celebrini is under PPG next year, does he also no longer apply as a generational talent?

 

[Hodge]

Outside of ovi, does that also apply to Crosby and McDavid? Ovi also couldn’t hit the playoffs until he was 22 despite his goal totals so the idea of anyone “single-handed my dragging a team” (I know, not you) is an absurd insinuation and frankly insulting to the idea that hockey is the ultimate team sport.

Of course it applies to Crosby and McDavid. Have people seriously memory holed how abjectly pathetic the Pittsburgh and Edmonton franchises were when they drafted those guys? Penguins were on the verge of moving to Kansas City and the Oilers missed the playoffs for over a decade with no elite talent to show for it. Forget playoffs, Bedard has failed to improve the Blackhawks at all.

If Celebrini is under PPG next year, does he also no longer apply as a generational talent?

Nobody has ever called Celebrini a generational talent. He isn't one.

 

[TheBeard]

Nobody has ever called Celebrini a generational talent. He isn't one.

You’re gonna get some push-back by some here.

 

[TheBeard]

Of course it applies to Crosby and McDavid. Have people seriously memory holed how abjectly pathetic the Pittsburgh and Edmonton franchises were when they drafted those guys? Penguins were on the verge of moving to Kansas City and the Oilers missed the playoffs for over a decade with no elite talent to show for it. Forget playoffs, Bedard has failed to improve the Blackhawks at all.

Both franchises were in trouble not necessarily because of the players but because of the ownership wanted to run each into the ground. Penguins in particular, which is why more than a few people found on sketchy when they won the Crosby lotto. But assuming the assertion of Letang, Malkin and Fleury didn’t have something to do with that rise is foolish.

Bedard, unquestionably, has far less talent surrounding him than either Crosby or McDavid did when they first arrived. There’s no Malkin or Leon or Letang or, he’ll even Nuge on the Blackhawks. It’s pretty much him and a squad of AHL players. Hell, if you want to claim someone single-handed made Edmonton a playoff team that one year you’d have a better argument for Talbot than Connor. No one would have been able to lift up that franchise as it currently is constructed.

 

[OrrNumber4]

This entire page is nothing but assumptions.


Everyone knows Crosby won his cups playing with absolute nobodies…. Aside from a future HOF goalie, HOF forward and HOF d-man.

If Fleury and Letang make the HOF (it would be a shame if Letang did, and Fleury is going to do it based on career and not peak/prime), they will have to thank Crosby and Malkin for it.

 

[TheBeard]

If Fleury and Letang make the HOF (it would be a shame if Letang did, and Fleury is going to do it based on career and not peak/prime), they will have to thank Crosby and Malkin for it.

Undoubtedly. Malkin and Crosby are special special players. My point is success was always going to be quicker for 87 and 97 because of the team around them at the time.

 

[Cas]

I think it's a bit early to be writing the obituaries of the careers of a few teenagers.

 

[TheBeard]

I think it's a bit early to be writing the obituaries of the careers of a few teenagers.

But hodge already gave them nicknames!

 

[Hodge]

I think it's a bit early to be writing the obituaries of the careers of a few teenagers.

Who's writing obituaries? Bedard will probably develop into a DeBrincat type scoring winger as I've been saying all along. It's not too early to write him off as non-generational considering what the legitimate generational talents did at his age.

 

[coooldude]

If Celebrini is under PPG next year, does he also no longer apply as a generational talent?

As Hodge said... nobody, I think literally nobody called or is calling Celebrini generational. Even the "Bedard vs. Celebrini" debates are about all-around team impact, not about whether Celebrini is a generational talent.

Bedard will be a great player but I think it is fair to already say he's not generational. You get one per 10 years, roughly (Ovie and Crosby - one was an exception), and we haven't seen the 2020's generational talent yet.

 

[Star Platinum]

If Celebrini is under PPG next year, does he also no longer apply as a generational talent?

Hockey fans are way too wrapped up in the definition who is and isn't a generational talent. There's no need to return a verdict on a player's career this early in the process other than to troll other fanbases, which unfortunately too many folks love to do.

 

[TheBeard]

Hockey fans are way too wrapped up in the definition who is and isn't a generational talent. There's no need to return a verdict on a player's career this early in the process other than to troll other fanbases, which unfortunately too many folks love to do.

Yeah. I also think we’ve reached a new low point where people throw out a million controversial opinions because some of then will Inevitably turn out true and they’ll essentially focus on those to flex their knowledge.

 

[Juxtaposer]

As Hodge said... nobody, I think literally nobody called or is calling Celebrini generational. Even the "Bedard vs. Celebrini" debates are about all-around team impact, not about whether Celebrini is a generational talent.

Bedard will be a great player but I think it is fair to already say he's not generational. You get one per 10 years, roughly (Ovie and Crosby - one was an exception), and we haven't seen the 2020's generational talent yet.

Landon Dupont is the generation guy of the 2020's. No question IMO.

 

[tiburon12]

Here's a thought - how much of Michkov and Bedard's perhaps mislabeled "generational" tag is a result of Covid. SImilarly, how many drafts were compromised by covid in that lack of training, games, exposure, etc hampered the ability to evaluate talent?

2020 draft looks OK w/r/t to how its shaking out, save Laf going 1OA.
2021 draft is a mess.
2022 draft is kinda messy at the top, though a bit early
2023 Early, but everyone at the top is struggling.

No thesis here, just something to think about.

 

[Lebanezer]

Landon Dupont is the generation guy of the 2020's. No question IMO.

Nope, too short.

 

[Zarzh]

Here's a thought - how much of Michkov and Bedard's perhaps mislabeled "generational" tag is a result of Covid. SImilarly, how many drafts were compromised by covid in that lack of training, games, exposure, etc hampered the ability to evaluate talent?

2020 draft looks OK w/r/t to how its shaking out, save Laf going 1OA.
2021 draft is a mess.
2022 draft is kinda messy at the top, though a bit early
2023 Early, but everyone at the top is struggling.

No thesis here, just something to think about.

I think it negatively effected the Canadian kids which had a trickle down effect in other competition, but that's also why fewer of them are going to the CHL. The rest of the world they didn't even miss that many games, and I'd suspect they didn't miss many training or coaching sessions either.

 

[Hodge]

Nope, too short.

More like nope, when's the last time a defenseman was a generational talent?

 

[Jargon]

Generational or not, I think it’s pretty clear that Celebrini — at least at what they’re all currently showing — is a far more ideal future superstar to build around than Michkov and Bedard.

 

[tiburon12]

More like nope, when's the last time a defenseman was a generational talent?

I guess you havent been door-to-door'd by the church of Lane Hutson yet

 

[Star Platinum]

I guess you havent been door-to-door'd by the church of Lane Hutson yet

Now that you spoke it into existence, I expect to see a gaggle of people in red jerseys asking me if I've accepted my lord and savior Lane Hutson before the end of the month

 

[mogambomoroo]

In terms of potential I would say if Celebrini can make it to over a point per game and help the Sharks win a lot more games for the rest of the season, he could get a fringe generational tag imo.
He is playing with a style that's very rare for 18 year old and he is already leading the team by example.
He is clearly a franchise player, but I think that's not gonna be enough for him. The thing with generational players is that they usually set their mark in their first season and I believe Celebrini has shown multiple flashes of that.

 

[tiburon12]

In terms of potential I would say if Celebrini can make it to over a point per game and help the Sharks win a lot more games for the rest of the season, he could get a fringe generational tag imo.
He is playing with a style that's very rare for 18 year old and he is already leading the team by example.
He is clearly a franchise player, but I think that's not gonna be enough for him. The thing with generational players is that they usually set their mark in their first season and I believe Celebrini has shown multiple flashes of that.

I actually think its continuing to be a standout, dominant player in your 2nd season that is the tipping point. "generational" players like Crosby, Ovie, McDavid and down to the next tier like Malkin, Makar, Matthews didn't have that growing pains season that nearly every "superstar" player has had, whether that was their rookie or sophomore season, etc. They never had to figure it out nor got figured out; they are/were always steps ahead.