Celebrini for Calder

[Lebanezer]

Yeah because Michkov is in an entirely different stratosphere than Celebrini!

If you mean because Michkov is stuck in the earth's stratosphere while Celebrini ascends into the greater depths of space? Then yes, you are correct.

 

[Alaskanice]

Long way to go concerning the Calder but I believe that Michkov may win some individual awards but Macklin is going to make others better players.
That’s what I’d rather have leading my team.

 

[slocal]

I know everyone on here already knows this, but there is no debate between Michkov and Celebrini.

Celebrini's stats are a Potemkin village

 

[tiburon12]

Late to the Rookie Stats party, but for those who use a computer, the NHL Stats page has 4 pre-selected player categories displayed: Skaters, Goalies, Defensemen, Rookies.

Michfraud 0 points, -2, stopped a Konecny shot from going in

Oh and he's still 20 years old. And a smurf.

I'm getting a chuckle out of all this Smurf stuff, but just to be sure, you personally are taller than Michkov, right?

 

[matt trick]

<--5'9, so can't actually talk shit, but will anyway.

Late to the Rookie Stats party, but for those who use a computer, the NHL Stats page has 4 pre-selected player categories displayed: Skaters, Goalies, Defensemen, Rookies.


I'm getting a chuckle out of all this Smurf stuff, but just to be sure, you personally are taller than Michkov, right?

Hodge is 4'8. So, yes.

Michkov is looking good though to be fair

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

The thing is, he is truly is a 3-dimensional Matvillain. He's not some villainous mustache-twirler, constantly taking advantage of the weak, unintelligent and vulnerable, unlike some other villains I care not to really discuss right now. Instead of hating him through and through, there have been times when I felt sorry for him, and wondered whether our incrimination of him has gone too far.

There is a nuance in his character where he started off as pretty evil, throwing every team that wanted to draft him under the bus, but he eventually became, I daresay.. a human being. And that's what makes him truly dangerous.

 

[coooldude]

FWIW, here's where vegas sits:

• Michkov the favorite at -185 to -215
• Celebrini in 2nd at +165 to +125
• Enormous dropoff to Hutson at +1300-3300

Obviously the line will move, because Celebrini was in the lead before Michkov scored 10 in 6 or whatever.

 

[MackAttack71]

Nice! Which Fanatics version did you get and how's the quality?

I took the fanatics branded home breakaway. One reason was to get it at the nhl shop europe, so i hadn't to pay taxes and hadn't to wait about 8 weeks or more. The quality is good and i can't complain about "mistakes" like numbers touching the bottom stripe or so.
And the price (~150€) is totally fine for me in comparison to the original adidas jersey (i got one too #65, years ago).

 

[Lebanezer]

FWIW, here's where vegas sits:

• Michkov the favorite at -185 to -215
• Celebrini in 2nd at +165 to +125
• Enormous dropoff to Hutson at +1300-3300

Obviously the line will move, because Celebrini was in the lead before Michkov scored 10 in 6 or whatever.

Michkov will have to outscore Celebrini by a significant margin, like 2x, to win. The fact that he's favored is just a product of Celebrini missing games to start the season.

 

[coooldude]

Michkov will have to outscore Celebrini by a significant margin, like 2x, to win. The fact that he's favored is just a product of Celebrini missing games to start the season.

I hope you're right, but there's East Coast bias to contend with and Michkov looks good, so he very well could outscore Macklin by enough to matter. If they're both PPG, but that means Matvei has 75+ points, it could be a Crosby/Ovechkin situation. Ovie won with 106 and Crosby had 102.

 

[wickedwitch]

I hope you're right, but there's East Coast bias to contend with and Michkov looks good, so he very well could outscore Macklin by enough to matter. If they're both PPG, but that means Matvei has 75+ points, it could be a Crosby/Ovechkin situation. Ovie won with 106 and Crosby had 102.

The anti-Russian bias could cancel out the East Coast bias.

I think Celebrini, like Ovechkin, will end up with more goals/game, and that could be a deciding factor. But other than that, I don't really see the Calder races as comparable. Crosby wasn't anywhere as good as Celebrini is defensively as a rookie, so there isn't the same aspect of 2-way player vs 1-way player. (Caveat: I haven't watched enough of the Flyers to judge Michkov's defensive abilities, so I'm going off what others have said.) Also, the Russian vs. Canadian aspect had a different vibe in 2006.

Also, it's harder to compare them with Hutson and Wolf. 2006 was a 2 person race. This year isn't, or at least it shouldn't be.

 

[coooldude]

The anti-Russian bias could cancel out the East Coast bias.

I think Celebrini, like Ovechkin, will end up with more goals/game, and that could be a deciding factor. But other than that, I don't really see the Calder races as comparable. Crosby wasn't anywhere as good as Celebrini is defensively as a rookie, so there isn't the same aspect of 2-way player vs 1-way player. (Caveat: I haven't watched enough of the Flyers to judge Michkov's defensive abilities, so I'm going off what others have said.) Also, the Russian vs. Canadian aspect had a different vibe in 2006.

Also, it's harder to compare them with Hutson and Wolf. 2006 was a 2 person race. This year isn't, or at least it shouldn't be.

I would actually say it's fairly comparable to 2006:

• Russian winger and goal scoring machine vs...
• 2-way Center with "future captain" written all over him - even if he wasn't great defensively yet, Crosby was def seen as the second coming and people didn't discount him for having a negative defensive game
• Big gap (at least according to vegas this year and the Calder voting in 2006)
• Promising young goaltender (Lundqvist/Wolf)
• Promising young defender in Canada (Hutson/Dion Phaneuf)
• Other than the top 4, no real challengers (e.g. Stankoven = Boyes)

If Celebrini ends up with more G/gp then absolutely he'll have the inside track, but if instead it's close in PPG I still think Michkov is more likely, and I do take some of my hints from Vegas here.

 

[timorous me]

I would actually say it's fairly comparable to 2006:

• Russian winger and goal scoring machine vs...
• 2-way Center with "future captain" written all over him - even if he wasn't great defensively yet, Crosby was def seen as the second coming and people didn't discount him for having a negative defensive game
• Big gap (at least according to vegas this year and the Calder voting in 2006)
• Promising young goaltender (Lundqvist/Wolf)
• Promising young defender in Canada (Hutson/Dion Phaneuf)
• Other than the top 4, no real challengers (e.g. Stankoven = Boyes)

If Celebrini ends up with more G/gp then absolutely he'll have the inside track, but if instead it's close in PPG I still think Michkov is more likely, and I do take some of my hints from Vegas here.

The main difference here is that while Crosby was playing in a somewhat prominent Eastern Time Zone market (with Lemieux playing part of the season, bringing them added attention), Celebrini is out west (while Michkov is not) and who knows how many games of his voters will even see this year.

The highlights are fun and all, the stats impressive, but I feel like you only really understand how great Celebrini is by watching him play full games.

 

[TheBeard]

Honestly, if it's even close by the time voting happens that means Celebrini continued his torrid pace so to me that means more than winning an award.

 

[zombie kopitar]

The main difference here is that while Crosby was playing in a somewhat prominent Eastern Time Zone market (with Lemieux playing part of the season, bringing them added attention), Celebrini is out west (while Michkov is not) and who knows how many games of his voters will even see this year.

The highlights are fun and all, the stats impressive, but I feel like you only really understand how great Celebrini is by watching him play full games.

I was watching some rookie year Crosby highlights to compare, and the first thing that stuck out is that every highlight pretty much had Lemieux, LeClair Recchi, Palffy and/or Gonchar involved. They still managed to be terrible, but that talent at the top for sure helped Crosby get to 100pts

 

[Lebanezer]

I hope you're right, but there's East Coast bias to contend with and Michkov looks good, so he very well could outscore Macklin by enough to matter. If they're both PPG, but that means Matvei has 75+ points, it could be a Crosby/Ovechkin situation. Ovie won with 106 and Crosby had 102.

I have a very hard time believing that Michkov is on the same level as the greatest goal scorer of all time. If he's that good, then more power to him, but Ovechkin was dominant from day 1 of his NHL career and Michkov hasn't been. Crosby was insulated by Mario Lemieux and every other aging veteran they could sign, whereas Ovechkin was just the guy on a bad Capitals team, and he thrived.

 

[TheBeard]

I have a very hard time believing that Michkov is on the same level as the greatest goal scorer of all time. If he's that good, then more power to him, but Ovechkin was dominant from day 1 of his NHL career and Michkov hasn't been. Crosby was insulated by Mario Lemieux and every other aging veteran they could sign, whereas Ovechkin was just the guy on a bad Capitals team, and he thrived.

It's almost insane he came close to doubling the second highest point total on the team and outscored the 2nd hghest goalscorer by 30.

 

[Levie]

Who are we kidding. This is the Sharks if Celebrini has equal to or slightly less points than Michkov he's 100% losing the Calder. It's Couture vs Skinner all over again.

 

[Sandisfan]

It's become so quiet in this Sharks Forum this evening (Monday the 16th), I am afraid that some here went to the main boards to chat up (LOL) Michkov fans and everyone has gotten banned!!!

 

[tiburon12]

Who are we kidding. This is the Sharks if Celebrini has equal to or slightly less points than Michkov he's 100% losing the Calder. It's Couture vs Skinner all over again.

I think this is a good reference point for all of us. Let's remember that Couture losing to skinner sucked in the moment and then never mattered again.

Win/lose, it doesnt matter

 

[Star Platinum]

I think this is a good reference point for all of us. Let's remember that Couture losing to skinner sucked in the moment and then never mattered again.

Win/lose, it doesnt matter

Steph Curry wasn't Rookie of the Year. Tyreke Evans was.

 

[coooldude]

I have a very hard time believing that Michkov is on the same level as the greatest goal scorer of all time. If he's that good, then more power to him, but Ovechkin was dominant from day 1 of his NHL career and Michkov hasn't been. Crosby was insulated by Mario Lemieux and every other aging veteran they could sign, whereas Ovechkin was just the guy on a bad Capitals team, and he thrived.

I'm not at all saying that Michkov is Ovechkin and I'm also not saying Celebrini is Crosby. I am saying that the dynamics between them are similar. But as others have said it doesn't matter and we'll know a lot more by February.

 

[Lebanezer]

I'm not at all saying that Michkov is Ovechkin and I'm also not saying Celebrini is Crosby. I am saying that the dynamics between them are similar. But as others have said it doesn't matter and we'll know a lot more by February.

That's a fair concern, but I don't really think the dynamics are the same between them. Crosby has always been a more complete player than Ovechkin, but Ovechkin was completely dominant from day 1. That's the main reason why Ovechkin won the Calder. Celebrini is a more complete player than Michkov, and Michkov has not even been relatively dominant. If their offensive numbers are remotely similar, Michkov isn't making up the gap between him and Celebrini in all other aspects of the game. That's why he needs to outscore him by a wide margin.