Line Combos: CBJ Roster Discussion/Line Combos/Injury Report

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Napoli]

Boeser on a big long term deal doesn't make sense for an offense that has Voronkov, Chinakhov, Marchenko, Fantilli, KJ, Monahan, Jenner, etc... as top six pieces, who knows where LDBB, Brindley, Sillinger, and Lindstrom fit in long term. But the point is we aren't going to be short of top six wingers long term. Most clubs don't have that kind of home grown bounty of top six talent and they will be the clubs bidding the price for Boeser to a level that is higher than we should go.



The efficiency of a Dobson type of acquisition isn't great, considering we can't give him the top offensive minutes and #1PP time. Meanwhile, who do we put out there to shutdown a lead in the final minutes? That's where a big add could go a lot further.

Boeser on a 6-7 year deal could make sense. Jenner is always hurt, same goes for Chinakhov and unfortunately Monahan. The only guys that are definite 25 goal scorers today are Marchenko and Voronkov. Not to mention this team could use another veteran presence, especially if they want to win a Cup one day. I dont know how many times I've read "were set" up front over the years when it has come to young players. Situations change all the time.

Currently Evason puts out Werenski in shutdown situations, is he a defensive stalwart? Dobson is relied upon in the same fashion, he's a young #1 dman that can boss his own pairing. That's crazy rare and currently he's analytically a better defensive player than offensive. I dont know how much "further" you could go than adding an all situation young #1 dman who plays the right side to your core for the next X years.

 

[punk_o_holic]

This TDL I'd like to see extension announcements for Voronkov, Fabbro, Olivier and Provorov. I know Provorov has been pushing for a long term deal and that's not ideal since he slots in as a decent #3/4 on most teams, but given his age, ability to play on the left and right side, and his durability I think I'd risk it.

Fabbro is the one I'm worried about. Haven't heard much about an extension for him.

I think someone asked Portzline or someone else and they said they were currently working on a extension

 

[GoJackets1]

ARGH. Keep LDBB with JvR and Johnson for now, please.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Viqsi]

Found out recently that Olivier has been with y'all for three seasons and CBJ fans never picked up his "Biloxi Bull" nickname. I need you guys to get on that ASAP!

I tried, but... well you can see the results.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

dammit

EDIT:
even if it was just a "let's see how I do" situation and not a proper "setback", dammit

 

[EspenK]

Saad?

What do you think? Sign him for what he would have made in ST L and see what happens?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[cbjthrowaway]

for all the "don't trade for elias pettersson, the contract is scary!" folks out there – his $11.6m cap hit in 27-28 will be equivalent to an $8.4m cap hit today. that's PLD, bo horvat, tomas hertl 2C type money.

 

[Cheddarcheese]

sad we didnt take a risk and lock up any of our FA for more term ( KJ, Marchy )

 

[Forepar]

for all the "don't trade for elias pettersson, the contract is scary!" folks out there – his $11.6m cap hit in 27-28 will be equivalent to an $8.4m cap hit today. that's PLD, bo horvat, tomas hertl 2C type money.

It's more the player than the cap hit for me. Too many question marks about recent performance and how Pettersson fits into THIS TEAM and what the TEAM's needs are. I get that you like EP40 the player - some of us are just not that high on the player nor on the fit with this team.

If we can bolster the short-run at the same time as making this team better in the long run, great.
I just don't believe EP40 is the guy that makes this team much more of a playoff threat in 2025; it seems a risky fit at best with the current make up of this team. If he's a long-term fit, then you make that happen in the summer when you have an opportunity to vet the player (assuming VAN permits it). Cannot do that meaningfully while the season is going on. I don't want CBJ moving quickly on this one simply because Vancouver needs to resolve its issue(s) quickly and we are fearful that the opportunity may pass by at the TDL. Sometimes the best moves are the ones NOT made.

If Pettersson and Miller can't get along, and Miller is known for being hard-ass/difficult, how does Petterson fit in with Boone, Guddy, Olivier, etc.? None of us know, not saying there's zero chance it would work, but we all have opinions, and my opinion is that Pettersson is too much of a risk given entire picture (salary being a very small factor).

This roster has grown together organically, with some added sauce of playing for #13. Monahan was the new addition this year, but he was and is as much a part of the #13 "experience" for this team (sadness, grief, relationship, growth) as anyone. Monahan's personality, his love for #13, his leadership of that top line and younger players (Fantilli), his absolute rock-solid play as a #1C have made Monahan as much an organic part of this team as Boone. Perhaps Boone's injury has a silver lining - Monahan (and Werenski) had to (or could) step up, and other players had to embrace them in Boone's absence. Not suggesting Boone was or is a problem - when he gets back into game action, he will have more colleagues in leadership group with bona fides that didn't exist last year.

Pettersson is not part of that. There are players that could slide right into that environment and embrace it, Pettersson's issues dealing with Miller (and by default others on the Vancouver roster with that divided room) give me great pause about his ability to do that. While admittedly not nearly on the same level, in my mind there is some comparison between Pettersson's perceived fit (or lack thereof) and Laine's fit with this team (there was little if any fit). No doubt Pettersson is a SIGNIFICANTLY better player than Laine - but that does not necessarily make him a good fit for CBJ. Getting Pettersson now would feel more like Jarmo's "winning the trade, getting the "better" player" mantra than constructing a roster that fits and is able to adjust as injuries happen and roles open/change. That's where I am at anyway. We have assembled some talent - we can and should add more - but now it's time to also focus on how the talent fits together.

CBJ is not likely in the hunt of winning the cup this season by adding Pettersson. In my mind, the greater short- and long-term need is a RD1 and/or RD2; get that solved and if one believes that another top-line C is needed, find an even BETTER player/fit in the summer instead of Pettersson. With the increased cap, the cost won't be an issue, as you allude to...just find the players/positions needed. If it costs $15M to add a Pasta, a Tachuk, or similar player who would seem better fits to the personality and needs of this team, go make moves to get that player.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[majormajor]

for all the "don't trade for elias pettersson, the contract is scary!" folks out there – his $11.6m cap hit in 27-28 will be equivalent to an $8.4m cap hit today. that's PLD, bo horvat, tomas hertl 2C type money.

The cap increases are much bigger than I expected and it does make me less concerned about EP's contract. Other concerns, however...

It's more the player than the cap hit for me. Too many question marks about recent performance and how Pettersson fits into THIS TEAM and what the TEAM's needs are. I get that you like EP40 the player - some of us are just not that high on the player nor on the fit with this team.

If we can bolster the short-run at the same time as making this team better in the long run, great.
I just don't believe EP40 is the guy that makes this team much more of a playoff threat in 2025; it seems a risky fit at best with the current make up of this team. If he's a long-term fit, then you make that happen in the summer when you have an opportunity to vet the player (assuming VAN permits it). Cannot do that meaningfully while the season is going on. I don't want CBJ moving quickly on this one simply because Vancouver needs to resolve its issue(s) quickly and we are fearful that the opportunity may pass by at the TDL. Sometimes the best moves are the ones NOT made.

If Pettersson and Miller can't get along, and Miller is known for being hard-ass/difficult, how does Petterson fit in with Boone, Guddy, Olivier, etc.? None of us know, not saying there's zero chance it would work, but we all have opinions, and my opinion is that Pettersson is too much of a risk given entire picture (salary being a very small factor).

This roster has grown together organically, with some added sauce of playing for #13. Monahan was the new addition this year, but he was and is as much a part of the #13 "experience" for this team (sadness, grief, relationship, growth) as anyone. Monahan's personality, his love for #13, his leadership of that top line and younger players (Fantilli), his absolute rock-solid play as a #1C have made Monahan as much an organic part of this team as Boone. Perhaps Boone's injury has a silver lining - Monahan (and Werenski) had to (or could) step up, and other players had to embrace them in Boone's absence. Not suggesting Boone was or is a problem - when he gets back into game action, he will have more colleagues in leadership group with bona fides that didn't exist last year.

Pettersson is not part of that. There are players that could slide right into that environment and embrace it, Pettersson's issues dealing with Miller (and by default others on the Vancouver roster with that divided room) give me great pause about his ability to do that. While admittedly not nearly on the same level, in my mind there is some comparison between Pettersson's perceived fit (or lack thereof) and Laine's fit with this team (there was little if any fit). No doubt Pettersson is a SIGNIFICANTLY better player than Laine - but that does not necessarily make him a good fit for CBJ. Getting Pettersson now would feel more like Jarmo's "winning the trade, getting the "better" player" mantra than constructing a roster that fits and is able to adjust as injuries happen and roles open/change. That's where I am at anyway. We have assembled some talent - we can and should add more - but now it's time to also focus on how the talent fits together.

CBJ is not likely in the hunt of winning the cup this season by adding Pettersson. In my mind, the greater short- and long-term need is a RD1 and/or RD2; get that solved and if one believes that another top-line C is needed, find an even BETTER player/fit in the summer instead of Pettersson. With the increased cap, the cost won't be an issue, as you allude to...just find the players/positions needed. If it costs $15M to add a Pasta, a Tachuk, or similar player who would seem better fits to the personality and needs of this team, go make moves to get that player.

This is where I'm at as well. Our room is our greatest asset and this can't feel like adding another Laine to it - i.e. take a team focused environment and put a guy in there who is up his own ass.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

It's more the player than the cap hit for me. Too many question marks about recent performance

that's fair and i don't think it's unreasonable, but in my opinion it's a bit of a "missing the forest for the trees" line of thought.

this is certainly the worst stretch of pettersson's career to date, however:

• we've seen this same narrative with stars in toxic situations/on stagnant teams before, only for them to emphatically rebound when they get to a better situation
  • eichel and reinhart recently, tyler seguin and ryan o'reilly going back a bit
• the toxicity of his situation in vancouver could explan this (relatively small) sample size
  • 32p in 44gp this season, 412 points in 407gp prior to that (!)
  • players with that level of production in their early 20s almost invariably maintain star-level play well into their 30s – this stretch seems to be an aberration fueled by the situation
• he's still playing at (easily) a top-line level
  • he has a +8 net rating (+5 offense / +3 defense) per the athletic's model, which would put him behind only marchenko and monahan on the jackets this season

imo there's more than enough in his statistical profile + the precedents set by players in similar situations to believe that he will rebound and be a top-10 center in the league again within the next couple years.

and how Pettersson fits into THIS TEAM and what the TEAM's needs are. I get that you like EP40 the player - some of us are just not that high on the player nor on the fit with this team.

again, that's fine and reasonable. i just disagree with the narrow definition of "needs = areas of deficiency" and instead favor a more open-ended approach that there is only a singular "need" to make the team better.

center is not a current (or long-term) area of deficiency, but i believe that this team becomes much better short and long term with pettersson than it would be without.

• his age supports multiple windows of contention
  • short-term: before monahan (30) and jenner (31) exit their primes
  • medium-term: aligned with werenski (27) and marchenko's (24) pimes
  • long-term: he'll age out if his prime while johnson (22), fantilli (20) and mateychuk (20) are at their peak impact (ex: fantilli will be 27 when pettersson finishes his contract at 33)
• elite two-way play down the middle
  • pettersson's a borderline selke-level defender
  • fantilli has shown (especially recently) the potential to be a two-way horse
  • monahan's defensive results this season have been outstanding
  • add that up and you have a playoff matchup nightmare for any team
• more straightforward roster build
  • elite centers = easier to extract value out of cheap or one-dimensional wings
  • trade assets can be spent on other needs (ex: defense/goalie)

If Pettersson and Miller can't get along, and Miller is known for being hard-ass/difficult, how does Petterson fit in with Boone, Guddy, Olivier, etc.? None of us know, not saying there's zero chance it would work, but we all have opinions, and my opinion is that Pettersson is too much of a risk given entire picture (salary being a very small factor).

jt miller has caused problems everywhere he's been – not because he's a competitive guy, but because he's an insufferable jerk about it.

by contrast, boone, gudbranson and olivier are among the goodest of "good guys" in the NHL. boone and werenski are lead-by-example guys. pettersson is plenty competitive/hard-working (he's better defensively than miller!) and would clearly be a better fit in our room than he is in vancouver.

This roster has grown together organically, with some added sauce of playing for #13 […] Pettersson is not part of that.

this team has still largely been a one-line team with the others contributing in pockets all season long. pettersson has a history of elevating his linemates.

i'd also argue that trading for pettersson is an endorsement of the current group, as it signals a strong belief from the new GM that 1) the room is strong enough to make this a good situation for EP40 and 2) that this group has earned a swing at the cup this year and will get the firepower to help make that happen.

CBJ is not likely in the hunt of winning the cup this season by adding Pettersson. In my mind, the greater short- and long-term need is a RD1 and/or RD2; get that solved and if one believes that another top-line C is needed, find an even BETTER player/fit in the summer instead of Pettersson.

the only stars on the market who would qualify for that on the UFA market are 1) marner and 2) rantanen. they already tried to get marner here a couple years ago and he didn't want to come. and both guys are going to cost $14m+ with today's cap news.

With the increased cap, the cost won't be an issue, as you allude to...just find the players/positions needed. If it costs $15M to add a Pasta, a Tachuk, or similar player who would seem better fits to the personality and needs of this team, go make moves to get that player.

the cap going up means that players who signed long-term contracts in the last few years will become unobtainable because they will be enormous bargains relative to the market. now is the time to strike.

 

[Jovavic]

Gudbranson was in Vancouver for Petterson's rookie season in 18-19

 

[majormajor]

Gudbranson was in Vancouver for Petterson's rookie season in 18-19

That might be too far back for him to know what's currently going on with EP, but I think we'll have players who know things through the grapevine. Like we'll have guys who are friends with Horvat or Garland or somebody and we can ask "hey do you think Pettersson would fit in our room?".

From the outside this feels like a Laine situation (with a better player, but temperamentally the same), but there's a lot of potential nuance that they'll have to figure out by talking to players in Vancouver.