Line Combos: CBJ Roster Discussion/Line Combos/Injury Report

[CBJWerenski8]

There were some people connecting us to this

 

[MoeBartoli]

Cole’s insertion to center between KJ and JVR just pisses me off.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

There were some people connecting us to this

So the real question is.

Is Boeser the 40 goal guy he was last year or is he the 25ish goal guy he has been every other year?

We've got plenty of 25 goal guys right now.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Cole’s insertion to center between KJ and JVR just pisses me off.

agreed. DBB has earned that second line spot for now. if anything i'd like to see a bottom six of:

​

pyyhtia - sillinger - lebanc​

zar - danforth - olivier​

​

give cole two guys with a little bit of skill and some more pace, and let the danforth line stick together.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

So the real question is.

Is Boeser the 40 goal guy he was last year or is he the 25ish goal guy he has been every other year?

We've got plenty of 25 goal guys right now.

when boeser came up he was an explosive goal scorer who played fast and skilled but that's not really who he is anymore thanks to injuries – and i don't mean that in a bad way.

in some ways he's like the wing equivalent of sean monahan. really smart off-puck player who has a lot of functional skill but isn't exactly explosive or flashy. has a ton of scoring touch in tight and on deflections/rebounds. good defensive zone player and great at making passes to dangerous areas.

imo he's kind of the ideal right-shot RW to play with fantilli and/or johnson because those guys can carry the puck, and boeser isn't great at that, but his off-puck game, finishing and playmaking will elevate those young guys.

he's had a lot of hardships throughout his career (injuries early + the stuff with his dad a couple years ago) – if you look at scoring rates rather than totals (he played all 56 games in the covid year and was a near-ppg player) he's a good bet to score at around a 60-70 point clip, which is definitely first-line production, albeit not star production.

still, he's a really smart player in his prime and has elements to his game that would seem to help unlock some success for johnson/fantilli (or both depending on line construction) and could play a variety of roles on either power play unit: both flanks, netfront or bumper, where imo he is most effective.

 

[Xoggz22]

I want a defenseman that plays like Olivier plays forward. Maybe with a little more speed and a little more discipline, but a lot like him. Someone in the mold of Darius Kasparaitis (going back a ways).

"The Disease"... one of my all time favorite Islanders. Loved that guy. Hit like a Mack Truck.

 

[Napoli]

So the real question is.

Is Boeser the 40 goal guy he was last year or is he the 25ish goal guy he has been every other year?

We've got plenty of 25 goal guys right now.

He's a consistent 25 goal scorer, thats nothing to scoff at. He would add reliable and consistent secondary scoring.

This team does not have plenty of 25 goal scorers, go look at the stats and previous years, we have roughly 4 give or take and all of them would have to do it this year. Marchenko, Voronokov, maybe Fantilli, maybe KJ, maybe Werenski and maybe Monahan(he did like 7 years ago) if he had stayed healthy. There's also Chinakhov who can't stay healthy. That's anything but a sure thing. Did I mention none of those players except Monahan has scored 25 in a year?

Even if Boeser scores 20+ every year, that a significant amount of goals coming from a 2nd line. I can understand the interest, especially when he has already shown potential to put up 40. Put him in Evason's system with KJ feeding him and you suddenly have two really good scoring lines. That's tempting especially with all the cap space.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

He's a consistent 25 goal scorer, thats nothing to scoff at. He would add reliable and consistent secondary scoring.

also worth noting that he's more productive than that on a per-game basis.

Season	Age	Goals/GP	82-game pace
17-18	20	29/62	38
18-19	21	26/69	31
19-20	22	16/57	23
20-21	23	23/56*	34
21-22	24	23/71	27
22-23	25	18/74	20
23-24	26	40/81	40
24-25	27	16/42	31

really just one down year in terms of goal scoring, which was the season following a family tragedy.

also noting that the 20-21 season (23-26-49 in 56gp) was shortened by COVID – he played all of his team's games, was their leading scorer, and his statline extrapolates to 34-38-72.

his career 82-game average is a 31-35–66 line. legitimate top line stuff!

the one caveat is that about 1/3 of that has come on the power play, but even if he's not a PP1 guy here on a 100% healthy roster (i don't think it's a sure thing that he wouldn't be, either) he's versatile enough to get time there when guys get hurt.

Even if Boeser scores 20+ every year, that a significant amount of goals coming from a 2nd line. I can understand the interest, especially when he has already shown potential to put up 40. Put him in Evason's system with KJ feeding him and you suddenly have two really good scoring lines. That's tempting especially with all the cap space.

there are two misconceptions (one noted above) about boeser:

1. that he's a one-dimensional goal scorer
2. that he would need to be a consistent 30+ goal scorer to be valuable to columbus moving forward

he's a crafty two-way winger with great playmaking chops who can get to – and score from – high-danger areas. and he's a right shot, to boot.

his impact wouldn't just be individual, it would also lift linemates (likely fantilli) and the team as a whole (multiple good scoring lines!)

tl;dr: everyone's overthinking this, boeser is a perfect target for the jackets

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Any interest in a reunion? UFA at the end of next year.

I assume no because of that additional year

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

tl;dr: everyone's overthinking this, boeser is a perfect target for the jackets

You're slowly starting to convince me. I can well see Columbus make a trade a package centred around Minnesota's 1st for a guy like Carlo (assuming Boston embraces the idea of an off-season re-tool) during the 4 Nations break and then immediately do a trade centred around Provorov for Boeser. Then they would come out of the break (assuming Monahan, Chinakhov and Gudbranson on IR) with something like:

Voronkov - Jenner - Marchenko
K. Johnson - Fantilli - Boeser
Pyyhtiä - Sillinger - Olivier
van Riemsdyk - Danforth - Aston-Reese

Werenski - Fabbro
Mateychuk - Carlo
Christiansen - Severson

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Any interest in a reunion? UFA at the end of next year.

I assume no because of that additional year

No

 

[koteka]

Any interest in a reunion? UFA at the end of next year.

I assume no because of that additional year

I could see Chicago grabbing him as a link to their past and a Taylor Hall replacement. But I don’t know why we would.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

He's a consistent 25 goal scorer, thats nothing to scoff at. He would add reliable and consistent secondary scoring.

This team does not have plenty of 25 goal scorers, go look at the stats and previous years, we have roughly 4 give or take and all of them would have to do it this year. Marchenko, Voronokov, maybe Fantilli, maybe KJ, maybe Werenski and maybe Monahan(he did like 7 years ago) if he had stayed healthy. There's also Chinakhov who can't stay healthy. That's anything but a sure thing. Did I mention none of those players except Monahan has scored 25 in a year?

Even if Boeser scores 20+ every year, that a significant amount of goals coming from a 2nd line. I can understand the interest, especially when he has already shown potential to put up 40. Put him in Evason's system with KJ feeding him and you suddenly have two really good scoring lines. That's tempting especially with all the cap space.

But the guys we have might be considered consistent 25 goal scorers when they reach Boeser's age and experience. I don't feel like any of them are flash in the pan guys and we are top 10 in goal scoring.

Do we NEED to pay what he's going to get on the open market?

I don't think so. Championships are won by players you develop, not ones you buy. Those guys you buy might push it over the edge in a real contender year but we aren't there yet.

 

[majormajor]

Supposedly Saad already waived his NTC and the Blues still couldn't find a deal, so presumably the Jackets have already said no to that.

I don't think so. Championships are won by players you develop, not ones you buy. Those guys you buy might push it over the edge in a real contender year but we aren't there yet.

I'm okay buying a player if he's a significant missing piece, like our version of McDonagh or Ekholm. Boeser's just not in that category. We're good on top six forwards long term. We could certainly use a stopgap veteran now with all the injuries, thus the Nyquist talk, but Boeser is going to need a big 7-8 year deal and it's not worth it.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I don't think so. Championships are won by players you develop, not ones you buy. Those guys you buy might push it over the edge in a real contender year but we aren't there yet.

not anymore, they're not.

two years ago, vegas won a stanley cup with one drafted player (nic hague) in their lineup. last year, florida only had four, and three of them (kulikov, barkov, ekblad) barely even count because they'd been 'developed' by a regime that had been gone for 5+ years at that point.

those teams won championships through pro scouting. we're in a new era of roster-building where fortune favors the bold. there's a clear template to follow to build a stanley cup contending roster.

1. build a death star at the top of the lineup at any cost necessary
   • ex: tkachuk/eichel/stone trades, bobrovsky/pietrangelo signings
2. open the window by trading future value for present value
   • ex: reinhart, montour, bennett, barbashev, martinez trades
3. create immediate excess value via pro scouting finds
   • ex: verhaeghe, forsling, ekman-larsson, marchessault, adin hill… basically the entire VGK expansion draft, etc.

this is why i'm so vehemently pro-pettersson. that type of move would check the "build a death star" box as they'd have pettersson, marchenko and werenski as a three-headed monster right now, and fantilli turning into a monster in due time.

realistically, the most direct path for columbus to open a championship window is to get pettersson, and then aggressively fill the few remaining holes via trade or free agency, with an eye on squeezing value out of market inefficiencies.

the argument for boeser, on the other hand, is that he accelerates fantilli's development and helps them build a death star in a year or two at a lower up-front cost. but with werenski in this kind of form, i'd rather they take every swing they can.

 

[TingleBiscuit]

I think Saad fits the Jackets timeline. We have 3 years before the big pay increases will be necessary for Marchy, KJ, etc. And we have enough cap that taking him on would not jeopardize our acquisition capacity significantly.

On paper, currently he immediately replaces Pyyhtia in the lineup- I'd argue there's sufficient upside potential (if he meshes well/change of scenery does him good) that this is a legitimate upgrade. Come playoffs, that additional 40 lbs of body mass alone is a significant upgrade.

I wouldn't like Saad if his term wasn't exactly 2 years, but it is. I like it. I support taking a swing on Brandon Saad.

 

[Napoli]

But the guys we have might be consdered consistent 25 goal scorers when they reach Boeser's age and experience. I don't feel like any f them are flash in the pan guys and we are top 10 in goal scoring.

Do we NEED to pay what he's going to get on the open market?

I don't think so. Championships are won by players you develop, not ones you buy. Those guys you buy might push it over the edge in a real contender year but we aren't there yet.

Every team buys players come deadline. Boeser wouldnt make sense as a temporary piece, he would need to be resigned long term. Im also not convinced he'd be crazy expensive but who knows.

I'm more of the belief that this team needs a serious D upgrade but also this team won't score forever, especially in the playoffs. Another proven goal scorer vet will take pressure off that first line to produce everything, so I could see the rational from Waddell.

I much rather throw everything at someone like Dobson though.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Saad has never played hard and the Blues fans are glad to see him go.

I will take the hints.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

not anymore, they're not.

two years ago, vegas won a stanley cup with one drafted player (nic hague) in their lineup. last year, florida only had four, and three of them (kulikov, barkov, ekblad) barely even count because they'd been 'developed' by a regime that had been gone for 5+ years at that point.

those teams won championships through pro scouting. we're in a new era of roster-building where fortune favors the bold. there's a clear template to follow to build a stanley cup contending roster.

1. build a death star at the top of the lineup at any cost necessary
   • ex: tkachuk/eichel/stone trades, bobrovsky/pietrangelo signings
2. open the window by trading future value for present value
   • ex: reinhart, montour, bennett, barbashev, martinez trades
3. create immediate excess value via pro scouting finds
   • ex: verhaeghe, forsling, ekman-larsson, marchessault, adin hill… basically the entire VGK expansion draft, etc.

this is why i'm so vehemently pro-pettersson. that type of move would check the "build a death star" box as they'd have pettersson, marchenko and werenski as a three-headed monster right now, and fantilli turning into a monster in due time.

realistically, the most direct path for columbus to open a championship window is to get pettersson, and then aggressively fill the few remaining holes via trade or free agency, with an eye on squeezing value out of market inefficiencies.

the argument for boeser, on the other hand, is that he accelerates fantilli's development and helps them build a death star in a year or two at a lower up-front cost. but with werenski in this kind of form, i'd rather they take every swing they can.

Judging the landscape of hockey on 1 team's ability to buy players after paying for the right to basically rape and pillage other team's rosters isn't really the entire future of the NHL.

Most teams still develop their core from within and then add parts to find the missing pieces. I'm not sure Boeser and his role is a hole we need to fill. We need to focus on other places more than adding more top 6 forwards that theoretically push out our current ones.

 

[majormajor]

not anymore, they're not.

two years ago, vegas won a stanley cup with one drafted player (nic hague) in their lineup. last year, florida only had four, and three of them (kulikov, barkov, ekblad) barely even count because they'd been 'developed' by a regime that had been gone for 5+ years at that point.

those teams won championships through pro scouting. we're in a new era of roster-building where fortune favors the bold. there's a clear template to follow to build a stanley cup contending roster.

1. build a death star at the top of the lineup at any cost necessary
   • ex: tkachuk/eichel/stone trades, bobrovsky/pietrangelo signings
2. open the window by trading future value for present value
   • ex: reinhart, montour, bennett, barbashev, martinez trades
3. create immediate excess value via pro scouting finds
   • ex: verhaeghe, forsling, ekman-larsson, marchessault, adin hill… basically the entire VGK expansion draft, etc.

this is why i'm so vehemently pro-pettersson. that type of move would check the "build a death star" box as they'd have pettersson, marchenko and werenski as a three-headed monster right now, and fantilli turning into a monster in due time.

realistically, the most direct path for columbus to open a championship window is to get pettersson, and then aggressively fill the few remaining holes via trade or free agency, with an eye on squeezing value out of market inefficiencies.

the argument for boeser, on the other hand, is that he accelerates fantilli's development and helps them build a death star in a year or two at a lower up-front cost. but with werenski in this kind of form, i'd rather they take every swing they can.

I share the view that you can indeed build a contender through aggressive trades. But you've got to consider whether Elias Pettersson is actually the player you think he is. Writing off his disappearing act as a Vancouver issue seems like wishful thinking to me.

Every team buys players come deadline. Boeser wouldnt make sense as a temporary piece, he would need to be resigned long term. Im also not convinced he'd be crazy expensive but who knows.

Boeser on a big long term deal doesn't make sense for an offense that has Voronkov, Chinakhov, Marchenko, Fantilli, KJ, Monahan, Jenner, etc... as top six pieces, who knows where LDBB, Brindley, Sillinger, and Lindstrom fit in long term. But the point is we aren't going to be short of top six wingers long term. Most clubs don't have that kind of home grown bounty of top six talent and they will be the clubs bidding the price for Boeser to a level that is higher than we should go.

I'm more of the belief that this team needs a serious D upgrade but also this team won't score forever, especially in the playoffs. Another proven goal scorer vet will take pressure off that first line to produce everything, so I could see the rational from Waddell.

I much rather throw everything at someone like Dobson though.

The efficiency of a Dobson type of acquisition isn't great, considering we can't give him the top offensive minutes and #1PP time. Meanwhile, who do we put out there to shutdown a lead in the final minutes? That's where a big add could go a lot further.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I share the view that you can indeed build a contender through aggressive trades. But you've got to consider whether Elias Pettersson is actually the player you think he is. Writing off his disappearing act as a Vancouver issue seems like wishful thinking to me.



Boeser on a big long term deal doesn't make sense for an offense that has Voronkov, Chinakhov, Marchenko, Fantilli, KJ, Monahan, Jenner, etc... as top six pieces, who knows where LDBB, Brindley, Sillinger, and Lindstrom fit in long term. But the point is we aren't going to be short of top six wingers long term. Most clubs don't have that kind of home grown bounty of top six talent and they will be the clubs bidding the price for Boeser to a level that is higher than we should go.



The efficiency of a Dobson type of acquisition isn't great, considering we can't give him the top offensive minutes and #1PP time. Meanwhile, who do we put out there to shutdown a lead in the final minutes? That's where a big add could go a lot further.

I pretty much agree with all of this. I do find Boeser interesting but I’m not sure how much Is give up nor how much I’d pay him and it’s not really worth the trade if you’re not extending him.

I agree it’s clear the best add would be a big, steady D whose best game is keeping pucks out of dangerous areas and keeping opposing players from getting to those same areas. It’s definitely missing in the current roster.

That said, if you like EP or Boeser or whomever and you believe you can co strict a roster where they’re worth their money and gives you a chance to be a strong, competitive playoff team, so you but do that because him you have more glaring immediate needs?

 

[koteka]

I am on the need a right D than can play defense more than anything else train. But do you know what would be a nice add to the forward group? Another guy like Monahan. We don’t need a super 1c on a huge contract. But adding another 2C that can play a 1C role if needed and does well matched with our good young wings? That would be great. Is that Boone Jenner returning from injury? I don’t know.

 

[Crede777]

This TDL I'd like to see extension announcements for Voronkov, Fabbro, Olivier and Provorov. I know Provorov has been pushing for a long term deal and that's not ideal since he slots in as a decent #3/4 on most teams, but given his age, ability to play on the left and right side, and his durability I think I'd risk it.

Fabbro is the one I'm worried about. Haven't heard much about an extension for him.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Doggy]

A Chinny sighting with the club...this is exciting!